Sherk to challenge test results

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Manfred
7/20/07 2:46:45PM
LINK

per Loretta Hunt via Greg Nelson

Anyone know who Nelson is? Sherk's manager?
Lord_Lenny
7/20/07 2:47:51PM
isnt he a member of NSAC?
Manfred
7/20/07 2:52:55PM
Google is a beautiful thing. Found it, he's one of his coaches/trainers

LINK

Last paragraph (7th line) it mentions Sherk as one of his fighters
DoTheMMAth
7/20/07 3:05:44PM
If I had to bet, I'd say that Sherk's heavy supplements are to blame. You guys saw how many pills, powders, etc, the dude eats every day. I've personally taken norandrostenedion (sp?, usually just called norandro). In a nutshell, it's almost the same as some anabolic steroids, just with a slight chemical difference that I'm not smart enough to understand, but you could buy it at a supplement store or website in the USA legally. I'm not sure if it's still legal now as there was all sorts of hoopla in the news about the government cracking down on stuff like this when I got out of heavy lifting a couple years ago.

Norandro's bi-product is nandrolone, the same thing that both Sherk and Royce Gracie tested positive for, although Sherk's levels were lower than Gracie's, which could further be a testament to one of the supplements he was taking as it's effect wasn't as strong as the stuff ol' Royce was munching on. The consensus among the weightlifting/bodybuilding community was that norandro is pretty heavy stuff, not to be taken if your too young, etc. I can tell you first-hand that the stuff works pretty well, but I wouldn't risk taking it long term.

So in a nutshell, my personal opinion is that Sherk has a chance of being innocent and simply was taking things that he had in fact acquired legally, over the counter.
Manfred
7/20/07 3:09:58PM
^ didn't Bonnar use that arguement and the commission simply told him, "tough crap. You should know what your taking and that's it"
LR
7/20/07 3:10:21PM
Question: If bi-products of this steroid are for sale legally, then shouldn't they be legal to take?

I think it is known that there are some performance enhancing drugs that are over the counter for the average joe trying to bulk up, but are banned I believe. I could be wrong, but I think there are some. As for the test results, Royce was 50 ng, and Sherk was 12 ng, so obviously Royce was either pumping himself full of bi-products or he was dosing. Sherk, on the other hand, may be a victim of the supplement/cardio argument.
jahdoug
7/20/07 3:14:50PM
at first i thought the above argument was impossible, but the more i read the more i concede that someone with sherks body type and ability to put on mass, coupled with all the suppliments and training could potentially put up those test numbers, especially when compared w/ royce's level. my apologies to sherk for earlier comments in other threads if this turns out to be the case
stingrza
7/20/07 3:15:52PM
How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.
jahdoug
7/20/07 3:16:45PM

Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



Dude we're all learnin here, its not like he didnt know who Chuck was
lilz_gangsta
7/20/07 3:20:14PM
face it.....sherk does steroids
stingrza
7/20/07 3:20:17PM

Posted by jahdoug


Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



Dude we're all learnin here, its not like he didnt know who Chuck was



Fine. I apologize.

But only because you have that picture of Sapp as your avatar.
jahdoug
7/20/07 3:21:46PM

Posted by stingrza


Posted by jahdoug


Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



Dude we're all learnin here, its not like he didnt know who Chuck was



Fine. I apologize.

But only because you have that picture of Sapp as your avatar.


hahah great pic right. many have refferenced it as meaning im unqualified instead of seeing it as an ironic statement
Manfred
7/20/07 3:23:24PM

Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



I Google him and found out. BTW, since you're new here... We try not to flame other posters here for no apparent reason. Keep that kind of crap for Sherdog. It has no place here.
elysianwing
7/20/07 3:28:23PM

Posted by LR

Question: If bi-products of this steroid are for sale legally, then shouldn't they be legal to take?

I think it is known that there are some performance enhancing drugs that are over the counter for the average joe trying to bulk up, but are banned I believe. I could be wrong, but I think there are some. As for the test results, Royce was 50 ng, and Sherk was 12 ng, so obviously Royce was either pumping himself full of bi-products or he was dosing. Sherk, on the other hand, may be a victim of the supplement/cardio argument.



The drug's legality for sale/use to the general public isn't the same as it being legal for use by athletes. There are a LOT of things that are banned from use to them...that aren't to us, some cough syrups, painkillers, etc etc etc

but regardless, as implied above, don't take something if you don't know what is in it(which is a bullshit excuse imo anyhow. Sherk being so overly conscious of what he takes into his body KNOWS wtf is in his supplements. So sorry, but I just can't see him "accidentally" taking something prohibited).
Twistedblaze
7/20/07 3:28:57PM

Posted by jahdoug

at first i thought the above argument was impossible, but the more i read the more i concede that someone with sherks body type and ability to put on mass, coupled with all the suppliments and training could potentially put up those test numbers, especially when compared w/ royce's level. my apologies to sherk for earlier comments in other threads if this turns out to be the case



Yeah I bashed Sherk pretty bad for him being one of my fav. fighters, I hope for his sake that he gets around this dilema. If he's indeed found guilty then he should be stripped from the title, he can fight back up the ladder.
stingrza
7/20/07 3:34:48PM

Posted by Manfred


Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



I Google him and found out. BTW, since you're new here... We try not to flame other posters here for no apparent reason. Keep that kind of crap for Sherdog. It has no place here.



OK cool, good to know. Also it's helpful to learn that blatant ignorance doesn't qualify as a "reason" to smart-ass people. I didn't know that. Thanks and wear sunblock!

nubby
7/20/07 3:45:49PM

Posted by Twistedblaze


Posted by jahdoug

at first i thought the above argument was impossible, but the more i read the more i concede that someone with sherks body type and ability to put on mass, coupled with all the suppliments and training could potentially put up those test numbers, especially when compared w/ royce's level. my apologies to sherk for earlier comments in other threads if this turns out to be the case



Yeah I bashed Sherk pretty bad for him being one of my fav. fighters, I hope for his sake that he gets around this dilema. If he's indeed found guilty then he should be stripped from the title, he can fight back up the ladder.



The thing is, I'm sure he reads the labels but if companies illegally taint their own product there is no way for someone like sherk to know. Is the answer to no longer take supliments? Possibly, because technically aren't suppliments performance enhancing as well? I just don't know how I feel about the whole thing anymore.
elysianwing
7/20/07 3:45:50PM

Posted by stingrza


Posted by Manfred


Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



I Google him and found out. BTW, since you're new here... We try not to flame other posters here for no apparent reason. Keep that kind of crap for Sherdog. It has no place here.



OK cool, good to know. Also it's helpful to learn that blatant ignorance doesn't qualify as a "reason" to smart-ass people. I didn't know that. Thanks and wear sunblock!




I can't speak for everybody....but I'm about 90.5% sure that being ignorant is slightly better than being an irritable douchebag.
NME
7/20/07 3:55:00PM

Posted by Manfred

^ didn't Bonnar use that arguement and the commission simply told him, "tough crap. You should know what your taking and that's it"



How could he have? Bonnar was on Equipoise, which is a HORSE steroid. What would he have said, that his pharmacist is Mr. Ed?
ncordless
7/20/07 4:01:59PM

Posted by stingrza


Posted by Manfred


Posted by stingrza

How about: Don't post on sites like this if you don't know who Greg Nelson is.

Christ.



I Google him and found out. BTW, since you're new here... We try not to flame other posters here for no apparent reason. Keep that kind of crap for Sherdog. It has no place here.



OK cool, good to know. Also it's helpful to learn that blatant ignorance doesn't qualify as a "reason" to smart-ass people. I didn't know that. Thanks and wear sunblock!




Stingrza,
First off Greg Nelson is not a well-known name, and to try to bust somone out for not knowing it is pretty weak IMO.
The only "blatent ignorance" I see is yours in how to interact with people. When Manfred said that we don't flame people on this site, he was correct. Let me be the first to express my condolences to you for having your account banned at Sherdog. That sux, not only for you but for us, too. I am sure you are still upset about it, so I will pardon your needlessly angry posts.
DoTheMMAth
7/20/07 4:05:25PM
Err, let's all cool it plz.... this is a (relatively) friendly MMA forum and we'd like to keep it that way...
ncordless
7/20/07 4:33:03PM

Posted by DoTheMMAth

Err, let's all cool it plz.... this is a (relatively) friendly MMA forum and we'd like to keep it that way...



my bad for getting involved.
DevonFoxy
7/20/07 4:54:25PM
i feel pretty bad for Sherk. He worked amazingly hard just to get his title and now its getten taken away from him for a positive test...i hope he didn't intentionally take them. I don't see how he would though because he knows he would have been caught. I don't kno it doesn't make much sense. Id like to hear some more details though from Sherk.
Arkad
7/20/07 5:47:40PM
maybe baroni should contest too
grappler0000
7/20/07 6:43:44PM
I'd say he has a decent chance at getting it overturned

It's natural in the human body at amounts up to 2ng/ml...and can be even higher for active athletes, which is why 6ng is the allowable amount. The following list are all things that can raise the level in the body.

Hight protein diet
Using Creatine
Hard cardiovasclular exercise
Heavy consumption of the amino acid lysine
Consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids (questionable)

We all know, with maybe an exception to the last one, that Sherk fits all of the other scenarios...and probably to a greater extent than most athletes. The question is whether those things could yield a result as high as 12. I would say that is a possibility, escpecially if you consider most of the other people who have tested positive. Most of them were much higher...Royce was off the charts at over 50 and I remember another was at 85. I'm sure it partly wishful thinking, but I think he may get it overturned.


blowe1983
7/20/07 8:02:32PM
this is rediculous!!! sherk knew wtf he was taking!! any professional athlete knows what they're taking. as many supplements as he was taking he would know!!!! to say that they're other knock off supplements that can put that in your system is plain ignorance. if you took "legal" knock off supplements that put the same crap into your system as steroids do it would be illegal!!! because in essence its the same thing if it shows up on a drug test. they may have the same side effects but ultimately its not the same as the real thing. thats why the real thing is illegal and ppl fall into the whole "take this, its just as strong and has the same effects as this steriod bs" if you can buy anthing in gnc or stuff off the net thats legal and comparing itself to real steriods you're just kidding yourself. im a personal trainer and a nutritionist. plus it doesnt take a smart person to figure this one out. the only reason ppl are debating this is because his level wasnt off the charts. trust me at one point it probably was. seriously look at the guy. i know he has to have good genetics but hes the biggest 155lb guy you're going to find besides a bodybuilder. two the way he was showing everyone how he works out. supersetting every exercise with high reps at a exceptionaly fast pace does not build muscle like that!!!! its a fact. its purely to define muscle and give stamina. not build mass. hes cut and bulked up. im sorry you dont build muscle like he does by lifting with those techniques. he took it. there should be no debate what so ever. the only argument sherk would have is that the supplments he was taking one of the companies laced their product with steriods. a few years ago there were some cases of this with the company called universal nutrition. a pro. tennis player was taking their product and failed his drug test. the tennis player tested the pills himself and they came up positive. they went to court and the company admitted to it. the chances that his happened today are slim to none. it doesnt matter how many supplements sherk takes. he could take 1,000 supplements its still not going to raise his levels like that. maybe just maybe 1 point and the chances of that are slim to none
TOMMYAYO05
7/20/07 8:25:21PM
Everyone knows he roids
grappler0000
7/20/07 8:59:50PM

Posted by blowe1983

this is rediculous!!! sherk knew wtf he was taking!! any professional athlete knows what they're taking. as many supplements as he was taking he would know!!!! to say that they're other knock off supplements that can put that in your system is plain ignorance. if you took "legal" knock off supplements that put the same crap into your system as steroids do it would be illegal!!! because in essence its the same thing if it shows up on a drug test. they may have the same side effects but ultimately its not the same as the real thing. thats why the real thing is illegal and ppl fall into the whole "take this, its just as strong and has the same effects as this steriod bs" if you can buy anthing in gnc or stuff off the net thats legal and comparing itself to real steriods you're just kidding yourself. im a personal trainer and a nutritionist. plus it doesnt take a smart person to figure this one out. the only reason ppl are debating this is because his level wasnt off the charts. trust me at one point it probably was. seriously look at the guy. i know he has to have good genetics but hes the biggest 155lb guy you're going to find besides a bodybuilder. two the way he was showing everyone how he works out. supersetting every exercise with high reps at a exceptionaly fast pace does not build muscle like that!!!! its a fact. its purely to define muscle and give stamina. not build mass. hes cut and bulked up. im sorry you dont build muscle like he does by lifting with those techniques. he took it. there should be no debate what so ever. the only argument sherk would have is that the supplments he was taking one of the companies laced their product with steriods. a few years ago there were some cases of this with the company called universal nutrition. a pro. tennis player was taking their product and failed his drug test. the tennis player tested the pills himself and they came up positive. they went to court and the company admitted to it. the chances that his happened today are slim to none. it doesnt matter how many supplements sherk takes. he could take 1,000 supplements its still not going to raise his levels like that. maybe just maybe 1 point and the chances of that are slim to none



Perhaps you don't know how the testing is done. The test doesn't actually show steroids in his system, it showed an elevated level of nandrolone in his system. Nandrolone is found naturally in your body...and some will always show on a test. There are a number of things that can raise the level...the debate is whether those things could raise it to a 12ng/ml level. You don't seem to realize what's involved in testing, yet you are sure that 1000 supplements couldn't raise those levels. I don't get it. There are false positive's in drug testing...and he is at a level where it actually seems to be a posibility at this point. I am willing to wait and see what comes of this, but you seem to be set on your thoughts, so I'm sure nothing will change your mind at this point anyway.

You say that Sherk's training is not for bulking up, but what you don't realize is that you just witnessed him training for a fight...this will be considerably different than he was training 3 months ago. It's similar to a body builder. They lift and eat, lift and eat...to bulk up. The closer to a competion they get, they start lifting to get cut and eating to lose fat. Most fighters start the sort of training that you saw Sherk do at about 8 weeks outside of the fight. So, you will not see him trying to bulk up just prior to a fight; that would be ridiculous.
blowe1983
7/20/07 11:45:19PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by blowe1983

this is rediculous!!! sherk knew wtf he was taking!! any professional athlete knows what they're taking. as many supplements as he was taking he would know!!!! to say that they're other knock off supplements that can put that in your system is plain ignorance. if you took "legal" knock off supplements that put the same crap into your system as steroids do it would be illegal!!! because in essence its the same thing if it shows up on a drug test. they may have the same side effects but ultimately its not the same as the real thing. thats why the real thing is illegal and ppl fall into the whole "take this, its just as strong and has the same effects as this steriod bs" if you can buy anthing in gnc or stuff off the net thats legal and comparing itself to real steriods you're just kidding yourself. im a personal trainer and a nutritionist. plus it doesnt take a smart person to figure this one out. the only reason ppl are debating this is because his level wasnt off the charts. trust me at one point it probably was. seriously look at the guy. i know he has to have good genetics but hes the biggest 155lb guy you're going to find besides a bodybuilder. two the way he was showing everyone how he works out. supersetting every exercise with high reps at a exceptionaly fast pace does not build muscle like that!!!! its a fact. its purely to define muscle and give stamina. not build mass. hes cut and bulked up. im sorry you dont build muscle like he does by lifting with those techniques. he took it. there should be no debate what so ever. the only argument sherk would have is that the supplments he was taking one of the companies laced their product with steriods. a few years ago there were some cases of this with the company called universal nutrition. a pro. tennis player was taking their product and failed his drug test. the tennis player tested the pills himself and they came up positive. they went to court and the company admitted to it. the chances that his happened today are slim to none. it doesnt matter how many supplements sherk takes. he could take 1,000 supplements its still not going to raise his levels like that. maybe just maybe 1 point and the chances of that are slim to none



Perhaps you don't know how the testing is done. The test doesn't actually show steroids in his system, it showed an elevated level of nandrolone in his system. Nandrolone is found naturally in your body...and some will always show on a test. There are a number of things that can raise the level...the debate is whether those things could raise it to a 12ng/ml level. You don't seem to realize what's involved in testing, yet you are sure that 1000 supplements couldn't raise those levels. I don't get it. There are false positive's in drug testing...and he is at a level where it actually seems to be a posibility at this point. I am willing to wait and see what comes of this, but you seem to be set on your thoughts, so I'm sure nothing will change your mind at this point anyway.

You say that Sherk's training is not for bulking up, but what you don't realize is that you just witnessed him training for a fight...this will be considerably different than he was training 3 months ago. It's similar to a body builder. They lift and eat, lift and eat...to bulk up. The closer to a competion they get, they start lifting to get cut and eating to lose fat. Most fighters start the sort of training that you saw Sherk do at about 8 weeks outside of the fight. So, you will not see him trying to bulk up just prior to a fight; that would be ridiculous.





you honestly think i dont know how testing is done. you're a complete moron. you honestly think i dont know nandrolone is naturally in your body????? and well you basically just summed up what i was ******* talking about. were debating that his levels were so high!!!!!!!!! yes supplements will not ******* raise those levels!!!!!!!!! two you dont know what supplements he was taking!!!!!!!!!! its not a possibility that his levels were that high without sterioids!!!!! i have a degree and im certified!!!!!!!! and yes you jackass if you workout that intense for 3months you will loose a considerable amount of muscle mass. you honestly think i do not know how this working out stuff goes???? you honestly dont have to tell who does what when it comes to workouts its a loss cause and your statements were pointless. your statements about lifting and eating make no sense. when you lift to buIld mass you increase your calorie intake and carb intake. when you loose fat you cut your carb intake and your calorie depending on how many you were eating before hand mainly your carbs.(thats if you're eating clean in the first place). two i train and workout with fighters you honestly dont have to tell me how fighters train. and most fighters i know train a lot longer for a fight. but i know there are a lot of cases where there is two months. and another i didnt say that he was trying to ******* bulk up before a fight did i? no i said the type of workouts he was doing would not let him be that big. HINTS HIM TESTING POSITIVE FOR STEROIDS!!!! wow
blowe1983
7/20/07 11:58:51PM
you people act like sherk is the hardest and most disciplined working person in the history of people working out, thats why his levels were raised. you really think that there are not other people in the world of sports that eat just as clean as he does and works out just as hard as he does, takes as many supplements as he does are you kidding me. the levels had a limit for a reason. you think they would cut that limit short on purpose so it would be hard for people to pass. the range is quite large and fair. if you use the argument about sherks supplements, work ethic, and eating habbits as an excuse why he failed then you're kidding yourselves. sherk could not get it out of his system fast enough!!! deal with it!!! and im sure its not the first time hes juiced before!!!! he probably didnt get it out fast enough. it can take awhile to get out. but hey its shean sherk, oh and we watched him on tv working out and saw how he ate and how he takes all of these supplements to, that means he couldnt have taken steroids because he is the only person that is so perfect his levels go way above the limit. hes that much of a beast. as a matter of fact hes not even human. all other mma fighters bow down. you want to learn how to train. train like sherk
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