Sherdog Official Mixed Martial Arts Rankings

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MartinKillMcGill
3/20/08 7:47:14AM
Are people forgeting that when barnet beat Randy couture he tested positive for a banned substance
cmill21
3/20/08 9:31:34AM

Posted by MartinKillMcGill

Are people forgeting that when barnet beat Randy couture he tested positive for a banned substance



As did Sherk, big Tim and many others but no one brings it up unless it's a convienient way to have an excuse as to why the might Couture lost. Don't forget Randy's undergone hormon replacement therapy...same as that fellow from the US who was stripped of his tour de france victory.
MartinKillMcGill
3/20/08 10:49:44AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by MartinKillMcGill

Are people forgeting that when barnet beat Randy couture he tested positive for a banned substance



As did Sherk, big Tim and many others but no one brings it up unless it's a convienient way to have an excuse as to why the might Couture lost. Don't forget Randy's undergone hormon replacement therapy...same as that fellow from the US who was stripped of his tour de france victory.



Big tim got beat anyway even on drugs and sherk's opponent Franca also tested positive so how are they relivent they also both paid the price for doing so as did barnet. My point is are you really going to count a loss on a fighter's record when his opponent was cheating I also dont think you can count sherk's win over franca
jiujitsufreak74
3/20/08 3:21:47PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by MondayNiteMauser
ATTENTION ALL RETARDS! Cro Cop isn't that good......



said the obknoxious 15 year old armchair warrior......



Cro Cop went 1-2 in the big leagues pal....now he's fighting C level fighters.



the "big leagues"???"

he was a top the best HW division of the world at one point. he has defeated more top opponents then Couture has even faced. Pride's HW division was, imo, better then the UFC's. he was a force in PRIDE and just because he hits a rough patch that means he failed in the "big leagues" Kharitnov is 3 times the fighter Kongo could ever be and is way better then GG. if CC fights him it will be his biggest fight since his PRIDED days. you obviously don't recognize talent outside of the UFC and i don't want to even know how you see the LW division if you let this clout of ignorance blind your judgment...
MondayNiteMauser
3/21/08 3:41:22AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by MondayNiteMauser


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by MondayNiteMauser
ATTENTION ALL RETARDS! Cro Cop isn't that good......



said the obknoxious 15 year old armchair warrior......



Cro Cop went 1-2 in the big leagues pal....now he's fighting C level fighters.



the "big leagues"???"

he was a top the best HW division of the world at one point. he has defeated more top opponents then Couture has even faced. Pride's HW division was, imo, better then the UFC's. he was a force in PRIDE and just because he hits a rough patch that means he failed in the "big leagues" Kharitnov is 3 times the fighter Kongo could ever be and is way better then GG. if CC fights him it will be his biggest fight since his PRIDED days. you obviously don't recognize talent outside of the UFC and i don't want to even know how you see the LW division if you let this clout of ignorance blind your judgment...



Randy would destroy Mirko! The UFC is the big leagues my friend. That's where everyone wants to be and you dening that is just pure ignorance. Cro Cop at one point was good and then he got passed up just like everyone else who can't improve their game...He's done, washed up, and will never be a serious contender again....It's pretty obvious that the UFC is the best...Just look at the damn ratings. They took the sport to mainstream and have the best fighters hands down dummy!
Pookie
3/21/08 4:34:30AM
lol if you look at the UFC's top ten kongo and Lesnar are top ten competition...

If you look at outside the UFC... Kongo and Lesnar are barely top 20.

The UFC's HW division is not the big leagues.
MondayNiteMauser
3/21/08 6:46:04AM


The UFC's HW division is not the big leagues.



What organization has more depth than the UFC in any division???
ICSlegend
3/21/08 9:09:41PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser

Randy would destroy Mirko! The UFC is the big leagues my friend. That's where everyone wants to be and you dening that is just pure ignorance. Cro Cop at one point was good and then he got passed up just like everyone else who can't improve their game...He's done, washed up, and will never be a serious contender again....It's pretty obvious that the UFC is the best...Just look at the damn ratings. They took the sport to mainstream and have the best fighters hands down dummy!





Your ignorance is funny.

Are you a fortune teller? CC is washed up? He lost twice? Didn't Couture lose twice at LHW? Was he washed up and done? No one except CC knows this, and the fact that you would even state this is rubbish.

Randy would have nothing for CC. That's a career-ending fight, and Randy would never take it. CC is on a whole other level then sloppy Liddell. Couture doesn't even want to fight Nog.

And all you "experts" need to get your facts straight. First of all, 90% of pro altheltes "use". If you don't know about cycling and other factors go research it to lift the "holier than thou" veil of ignorance from your eyes. PRIDE didn't test. Who cares? UFC tests and only catches a few.

And Barnett haters, his test was actually CLEAN. Doesn't mean he wasn't using, just like it doesn't mean Couture wasn't. They failed to provide Josh with the paperwork necessary and list of banned substances and the actual test results. Look it up, there's extensive writeups about it with testimony from those involved. Barnett got screwed.

UFC is big leages?

1) All fighters want to be in the UFC? Like Fedor? Barnett? F. Shamrock? There are a ton of fighters who don't want to be in bad contracts and don't care for the UFC hype machine.

2) Obvious that UFC is the best? To who? Casual "ultimate fighting" fans like yourself, sure.

3) Ratings. What ratings are you looking at? UFC might have top MMA ratings in the U.S., and what percent of real estate is the U.S. in terms of the world? UFC isn't rated in Asia. DREAM might not have had PRIDE ratings, but it did okay for a first show. The world doesn't watch much UFC. Get over it.

4) Taking the sport to mainstream? In who's opinion, yours? Judging from your post, it doesn't mean much. SPIKE may have taken the sport "more" mainstream in the U.S., but if you look at how big it was in Japan for years you will see that the paychecks and endorsement some mma fighters have are way ahead. I mean Bob Sapp was on a ton of tv shows over there (small example of not even a top fighter who has insane exposure).

5) UFC has the best fighters hands down? This is just laughable. Fedor and Barnett are at the top of the heap at HW. Not in the UFC. Nog is, but that's about it. LHW is pretty stacked, so UFC has "most" of the best LHW fighters, but there are still a few TOP fighters like Lil Nog and Arona that aren't in the UFC. Not to mention middleweight and lightweight is a joke besides Penn, Anderson, and Dan. Unfound statement based on dumb bias.

6) Dummy. Congratulations, resorting to namecalling is a good sign of intelligence and how right you are.

And I probably just wasted all this time on a 10-year old who clings to his blankie no matter what facts are presented.

telnights
3/21/08 10:05:41PM
This has gotten way .

MondayNiteMauser your post is very one sided point of view.
ICSlegend Your point of view isn't any better than MondayNiteMauser is.

Some where in the middle is the truth. Most people understand that but you two really need to get off your high horses and come join the rest of us in the middle.
ICSlegend
3/22/08 4:19:21PM

Posted by telnights

This has gotten way .

MondayNiteMauser your post is very one sided point of view.
ICSlegend Your point of view isn't any better than MondayNiteMauser is.

Some where in the middle is the truth. Most people understand that but you two really need to get off your high horses and come join the rest of us in the middle.



telnights, your point of view isn't better then either mine of MondayNiteMauser's.

Anyone can play this game with random statements. Back it up with some facts, how was my point of view one sided? I cited the facts, maybe a little harsh, but the kid likely can't use logic judging by his posts and namecalling.
Pookie
3/22/08 6:52:53PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser



The UFC's HW division is not the big leagues.



What organization has more depth than the UFC in any division???



since this was directed at me...


Dream has more talent at LW by 2-3 top fighters IMO

But you did misread my quote... i said outside the UFC there is more talent in the HW division, they all arent in one organization... BUT the organizations they are in ALL do co-promotions and they have the opportunity to fight one another.

MW is arguably better outside the UFC as well, when it comes to depth.
With fighters like lindland, misaki, akiyama, lawler, filho and kang.

LHW and WW are the only divisions that the UFC has pretty much the cream of the crop although they are missing top ten fighters from each.

SO to answer your question

3/5 divisions(not including FW) there is more talent outside the UFC then in it.
telnights
3/22/08 7:51:05PM

Posted by ICSlegend

telnights, your point of view isn't better then either mine of MondayNiteMauser's.

Anyone can play this game with random statements. Back it up with some facts, how was my point of view one sided? I cited the facts, maybe a little harsh, but the kid likely can't use logic judging by his posts and namecalling.



My statement wasn't random it was very directed at you and MondayNiteMauser.

Here you go with facts I could sit here and tear your post apart but is that going to help anything. I love how you keep think everything you say is a fact when I could show you facts that are just the opposite. Your point of view is very ANTI-UFC and his is very PRO-UFC. Like I said before some where in the middle is the truth but getting there doesn't mean you both have to call each other idiots. You bring up name calling but in your post you didn't do any better by calling the person a kid and basically an idiot so the !FACT! is your both in the wrong.
telnights
3/22/08 7:59:19PM

Posted by Pookie

since this was directed at me...


Dream has more talent at LW by 2-3 top fighters IMO

But you did misread my quote... i said outside the UFC there is more talent in the HW division, they all arent in one organization... BUT the organizations they are in ALL do co-promotions and they have the opportunity to fight one another.

MW is arguably better outside the UFC as well, when it comes to depth.
With fighters like lindland, misaki, akiyama, lawler, filho and kang.

LHW and WW are the only divisions that the UFC has pretty much the cream of the crop although they are missing top ten fighters from each.

SO to answer your question

3/5 divisions(not including FW) there is more talent outside the UFC then in it.



Now I don't agree with MondayNiteMauser at all.

But come on Pookie you would have to join 4 different orgs to fight all the guys you listed at MW. So truly for joining one org the UFC has the best depth at MW. Having Anderson Silva, Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, Yushin Okami, and Nathan Marquardt just to name a few all under the UFC banner.

I could also say the same about HW. As far as having the best fighters under one banner the UFC by far has the best at HW also.
ICSlegend
3/23/08 5:16:27AM

Posted by telnights

My statement wasn't random it was very directed at you and MondayNiteMauser.

Here you go with facts I could sit here and tear your post apart but is that going to help anything. I love how you keep think everything you say is a fact when I could show you facts that are just the opposite. Your point of view is very ANTI-UFC and his is very PRO-UFC. Like I said before some where in the middle is the truth but getting there doesn't mean you both have to call each other idiots. You bring up name calling but in your post you didn't do any better by calling the person a kid and basically an idiot so the !FACT! is your both in the wrong.



Obviously you're statement was directed at MondayNite and myself, plain as day, I meant random as in not backed by facts!

Show me the opposite? Show me where Fedor, Barnett, F. Shamrock, Couture, Hellboy, etc. say they want to be in the UFC?!? In several interviews these guys mention they want nothing to do with it. This easily disproves the silly argument that EVERYONE wants to be in the UFC. Maybe you and MondayNite are confused on the definition of "everyone.

Show me the FACTS proving UFC is "the best". This is an opinion.

Show me the opposite of UFC having top ratings in the US (yeah, I said it did in my post and since I'm wrong prove it). Show me how high the UFC ratings are in Japan and the rest of the world! Since ratings seem to not be facts in your opinion.

Show me the FACTS that disprove that Bob Sapp was on TV shows in Japan and in fact very mainstream. Show me that mma fighters over there DON'T have huge endorsement deals. Show me the UFC fighters here having HUGE endorsement deals. Come on, lets see the facts.

And find me some top 10 lists in all weight classes with UFC having ALL the top fighters. Once again ludicris. I said UFC has most of the top LHWs. Since I'm wrong, tell me why the UFC LHW is so weak.

You mention how you "could" tear apart my post with facts to contrary, and yet you didn't. I wonder why

And how is my post anti-UFC? I mentioned many facts IN ITS FAVOR if you even read my post.

FACT - you thinking we're both wrong is an opinion, not a fact! Once again backed by nothing.

And calling someone a kid is not an insult...especially if its true, which looks to be the case to an observant, unbiased individual.

If it's so easy to prove me wrong as you claim, do it instead of talking about how you "could". Nice try though.
Pookie
3/23/08 7:15:42AM

Posted by telnights


Posted by Pookie

since this was directed at me...


Dream has more talent at LW by 2-3 top fighters IMO

But you did misread my quote... i said outside the UFC there is more talent in the HW division, they all arent in one organization... BUT the organizations they are in ALL do co-promotions and they have the opportunity to fight one another.

MW is arguably better outside the UFC as well, when it comes to depth.
With fighters like lindland, misaki, akiyama, lawler, filho and kang.

LHW and WW are the only divisions that the UFC has pretty much the cream of the crop although they are missing top ten fighters from each.

SO to answer your question

3/5 divisions(not including FW) there is more talent outside the UFC then in it.



Now I don't agree with MondayNiteMauser at all.

But come on Pookie you would have to join 4 different orgs to fight all the guys you listed at MW. So truly for joining one org the UFC has the best depth at MW. Having Anderson Silva, Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, Yushin Okami, and Nathan Marquardt just to name a few all under the UFC banner.

I could also say the same about HW. As far as having the best fighters under one banner the UFC by far has the best at HW also.




True but if you look at what i said i was talking about outside the organization as a whole to begin with. And everyone of those bar the WEC does do constant cross-promotions/ non-exclusive contracts.

so having 5/10 MW possibly fighting each other is still better than having 4/10 top MW's fighting each other.

The HW division is even more scattered but still the Depth in the UFC right now one cant reasonably say is the big leagues... with people like aleks, fedor, barnett, couture, cro-cop, and hunt outside of it.
telnights
3/24/08 5:20:33PM

Posted by ICSlegend

Obviously you're statement was directed at MondayNite and myself, plain as day, I meant random as in not backed by facts!

Show me the opposite? Show me where Fedor, Barnett, F. Shamrock, Couture, Hellboy, etc. say they want to be in the UFC?!? In several interviews these guys mention they want nothing to do with it. This easily disproves the silly argument that EVERYONE wants to be in the UFC. Maybe you and MondayNite are confused on the definition of "everyone.

Show me the FACTS proving UFC is "the best". This is an opinion.

Show me the opposite of UFC having top ratings in the US (yeah, I said it did in my post and since I'm wrong prove it). Show me how high the UFC ratings are in Japan and the rest of the world! Since ratings seem to not be facts in your opinion.

Show me the FACTS that disprove that Bob Sapp was on TV shows in Japan and in fact very mainstream. Show me that mma fighters over there DON'T have huge endorsement deals. Show me the UFC fighters here having HUGE endorsement deals. Come on, lets see the facts.

And find me some top 10 lists in all weight classes with UFC having ALL the top fighters. Once again ludicris. I said UFC has most of the top LHWs. Since I'm wrong, tell me why the UFC LHW is so weak.

You mention how you "could" tear apart my post with facts to contrary, and yet you didn't. I wonder why

And how is my post anti-UFC? I mentioned many facts IN ITS FAVOR if you even read my post.

FACT - you thinking we're both wrong is an opinion, not a fact! Once again backed by nothing.

And calling someone a kid is not an insult...especially if its true, which looks to be the case to an observant, unbiased individual.

If it's so easy to prove me wrong as you claim, do it instead of talking about how you "could". Nice try though.




You keep on with this fact stuff as if your post was full of them. Just because you type something does not make it fact. I'm not going to bother responding to your post anymore because it easy to see you don't know the difference from fact and opinion. It would be a waste of both our time to try to explain it again as it has been done already for you in another topic.
telnights
3/24/08 5:46:37PM

Posted by Pookie
True but if you look at what i said i was talking about outside the organization as a whole to begin with. And everyone of those bar the WEC does do constant cross-promotions/ non-exclusive contracts.

so having 5/10 MW possibly fighting each other is still better than having 4/10 top MW's fighting each other.

The HW division is even more scattered but still the Depth in the UFC right now one cant reasonably say is the big leagues... with people like aleks, fedor, barnett, couture, cro-cop, and hunt outside of it.



Your still talking about fighters having to fight in many different orgs just to get close to the same competition they could get in the UFC at MW. I just don't see a fighter being able to jump around that much. As far as MW fighters go the UFC/Zuffa has the best hands down as it controls 6-7 of most peoples top 10 MWs.

Now as far as HW goes there is a problem with some of the fighters you listed. Hunt hasn't fought since 2006. Couture is still under contract with the UFC. Cro-Cop has made it clear he wants to go back to the UFC. Fedor hasn't fought a top ten HW since 2005. Now you have fighters in the UFC like Nogueira, Sylvia, Werdum, Gonzaga, Herring, Vera, Kongo, and Mir. Also Arlovski(could be leaveing) is iffy but fairly sure he will stay. All of those fighters are in the UFC and all the HW you listed are spread out over diffent orgs, or havent fought in 2 years, or are still under contract with the UFC.
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