Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez in works for UFC 104 in Los Angeles on Oct. 24

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Wolfenstein
7/1/09 6:54:55PM
A heavyweight contest between top undefeated prospects Shane Carwin (11-0 MMA, 3-0 UFC) and Cain Velasquez (6-0 MMA, 4-0 UFC) is currently in the works for UFC 104.

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WheelchairBandit
7/1/09 7:01:24PM
Hmmmm......I have the feeling this means that the winner of the fight won't be the next person to have a crack at the HW belt,since the soonest they could fight would be early 2010,which would mean the HW belt would only be up for grabs once in 2009.

Which means the winner of Couture-Nog will most likely fight for the belt in the late fall/early winter.

For those guy's sake,I hope Mir wins on the 11th.......

WB.
Jackelope
7/1/09 7:07:31PM
I don't like it. Unless it's for #1 contendership. Which I suspect that it probably is. So, I guess I sort of do like it.

I suppose what it boils down to is that I would just like to see 1 more big fight on each of these guys' resume before they go for #1 contendership. It speaks to the lack of competition at HW. I'd just like to see these guys built completely separate from one another. Think about it- if Carwin or Velasquez wins, and then fights for the title and lose- who's next? Wouldn't it be better if they both took another fight against top contenders so that if one loses to the HW champ there will be a contender waiting in the wings instead of no one?

I just feel like each of these guys will need an extra fight before they're ready for the belt, and that each is good enough to get a crack at it after that fight.
nickcuc547
7/1/09 7:09:12PM
best available fight for both guys now, all the other "contenders" already have fights lined up for them. as for the fight itself, i like carwin, guy has hands of steel and even if he has a disadvantage in the wrestling department, i don't think it's enough where velasquez will be able to dodge that ridiculously powerful right hand of carwin's.
D0wnUnd6e6r
7/1/09 7:12:42PM
tooooooooooooooo early
Wolfenstein
7/1/09 7:29:43PM
I feel like this was inevitable, and frankly I don't really understand why fans are so intent on these two running parallel to one another.

They've both had 4 fights each in the UFC, and both just recently knocked off a top contender. Now the kid gloves are off--there's no more careful handling--it's time to showcase who's the real deal rising star in the division.

I don't think a loss will shatter either guys career. They're both undefeated, so one guy will just have to face some real adversity for once in his career, and we'll see if he has the stuff to be able to go back to the drawing board and come back stronger.

I wasn't really overtly impressed by either guys last performance despite both coming out on top. Carwin showed he has heavy hands, but is still lacking in technical skill. Velasquez proved he has heart, but every time his chin was touched he turned to rubber, and his power is in question now as well.

I will probably go with Carwin in this matchup. His power is just devestating, and he can probably keep this one standing. Maybe even get a takedown and work his earth-rumbling GnP.
lohmann
7/1/09 7:58:43PM
I love Carwin's honesty. I won't be surprised when it gets him in trouble eventually though.

If Carwin landed the shots Kongo did in the first and second rounds, there's no way Velasquez can fall straight into him and drag him to the mat easily. However, there's questions about Carwin's chin too. He had a great sense of space clinching with Gonzaga after he was rocked. But I doubt Velasquez holds the power Gonzaga has. Interesting fight. Hope it answers some questions.
sparky
7/1/09 9:27:48PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

tooooooooooooooo early



Agreed!!!!
lohmann
7/1/09 9:34:31PM

Posted by sparky


Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

tooooooooooooooo early



Agreed!!!!



Carwin knocked out Gonzaga. Velasquez dominated Kongo. What else is there to do for these two fighters?
Jackelope
7/1/09 10:25:20PM

Posted by lohmann


Posted by sparky


Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

tooooooooooooooo early



Agreed!!!!



Carwin knocked out Gonzaga. Velasquez dominated Kongo. What else is there to do for these two fighters?



Despite my earlier post I agree with this statement. I just think if anything this shows how limited the depth in the UFC's HW division is.

I mean, think about it this way- Should Cain Velasquez win you'll have a guy with 7 career total fights going up against a guy who has 6 career total fights for the HW belt. That just doesn't add up IMO. It shows how weak the HW division is.

I feel like Carwin proved more by beating Gonzaga than Cain did by beating Kongo. They both showed they can last through adversity, but Carwin showed he could get back to his feet after being rocked by a powerful, powerful striker in Gonzaga, and he also showed he can get back up from the bottom against someone who probably has some of the most devastating top game BJJ of all HW's.

Cain, on the other hand, proved something we know, and 1 thing we didn't know- He proved Kongo has still got a long way to go in the wrestling department. (which we all knew) and he proved that Kongo wears a thong, which we all didn't know
RandyCouture
7/1/09 11:06:21PM
Way too early look to the future of the division dont have young top contenders keep fighting each other. Let Cain develop a little more he stated that he is fine what that or a title shot either way so develop him a little more and make him into a beast instead of throwing him in with another top contender. Yes both these guys could become champs or be high ranked in the division but look nog couture herring all the other top contenders are all in talks of retiring. After carwin and cain fight for the title who's left in 1 or 2 years to come. You cant keep depending on naturally talented monsters like cain and carwin. Give wait to see how mir lesanar plays out if mir wins give him couture or nogeira. If brock wins and nog wins have that. If brock and couture win let carwin face brock and have cain fight a decent fighter then a randy couture or a nog.
TimW001
7/1/09 11:50:14PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

tooooooooooooooo early

clintjack
7/2/09 1:27:49AM
Cain, on the other hand, proved something we know, and 1 thing we didn't know- He proved Kongo has still got a long way to go in the wrestling department. (which we all knew) and he proved that Kongo wears a thong, which we all didn't know



This paragraph was priceless!
Shadymlm
7/2/09 2:35:44AM
I like it, I think it's the best match up for the #1 Contender spot. What would happen if say Carwin beats Cain then has a fight against a mid level guy and somehow loses then what? There would be nobody that is worthy of a title shot.

Sure maybe Randy or Nog, but if Brock wins do we really wanna see Randy Brock 2? you have 2 undefeated HW's who have each beat credible fighters in Gonzaga and Kongo this is the best way to go about it. Then the winner of NOG and Randy can fight the loser of Carwin/Cain that way it's a meaningful bout for both fighters and an interesting one.
telnights
7/2/09 3:27:28AM

Posted by Jackelope
Despite my earlier post I agree with this statement. I just think if anything this shows how limited the depth in the UFC's HW division is.

I mean, think about it this way- Should Cain Velasquez win you'll have a guy with 7 career total fights going up against a guy who has 6 career total fights for the HW belt. That just doesn't add up IMO. It shows how weak the HW division is.

I feel like Carwin proved more by beating Gonzaga than Cain did by beating Kongo. They both showed they can last through adversity, but Carwin showed he could get back to his feet after being rocked by a powerful, powerful striker in Gonzaga, and he also showed he can get back up from the bottom against someone who probably has some of the most devastating top game BJJ of all HW's.

Cain, on the other hand, proved something we know, and 1 thing we didn't know- He proved Kongo has still got a long way to go in the wrestling department. (which we all knew) and he proved that Kongo wears a thong, which we all didn't know



Well I don't think its the lack of depth of the UFC HW division I think it just the fact that you have fighters coming in to MMA now days that have great back grounds, are great athletes, and joining great camps right off the bat. Plus the other issue is there aren't very many true HWs around. Most rankings have the UFC holding 6 to 7 of the top ten HWs in the world. I think truly out of all the weight classes I think HW is the most lacking. But I think this holds true for all of MMA and not just one organization.
Pskinner_mma314
7/2/09 4:38:59AM
lookas far as the ufc's HW division goes, carwin just beat the #5 in that division

1-Brock(he has the belt, i hate puttin him here but gotta)
2-Mir
3-Nog
4-Couture

i considered gabe right after couture, so him fightin another guy who just beat another one of the ufc's top 10.........i'm cool with it, **** lettin them develop, they are in the ufc for a reason, u cant handle top comp, u don't belong here.

and as far as people sayin," oh now one of them will have a loss......"

ok had to happen sometime, and even so as so many fighters have said,"you can win alot of fights and be a champ, but its bouncing back from losing that makes u great."

so anyway, i see carwin winning, with cain being a future HW champ
WheelchairBandit
7/2/09 8:32:17AM
The winner of Couture-Nog will most likely get the next crack at the belt,although if Mir and Nog win,I don't know if they are real quick on doing that matchup.Lesnar-Couture 2 would sell big,but Mir-Nog 2 would be co-main event fodder.Now,if we end up with a fresh matchup out of the mix-Lesnar vs. Nog or Mir vs. Couture-they will put that fight together in a heartbeat.

Then the winner of that fight (UFC 100 winner vs. UFC 102 winner) would fight the winner of Carwin vs. Velasquez in early 2010........unless Couture somehow pulled it off,in which case he'd most likely retire,and the winner of Carwin vs. Velasquez would fight someone else for the vacant belt.

The UFC HW title picture-a complete train wreck since 1997.

WB.
Jackelope
7/2/09 9:27:57AM

Posted by telnights


Posted by Jackelope
Despite my earlier post I agree with this statement. I just think if anything this shows how limited the depth in the UFC's HW division is.

I mean, think about it this way- Should Cain Velasquez win you'll have a guy with 7 career total fights going up against a guy who has 6 career total fights for the HW belt. That just doesn't add up IMO. It shows how weak the HW division is.

I feel like Carwin proved more by beating Gonzaga than Cain did by beating Kongo. They both showed they can last through adversity, but Carwin showed he could get back to his feet after being rocked by a powerful, powerful striker in Gonzaga, and he also showed he can get back up from the bottom against someone who probably has some of the most devastating top game BJJ of all HW's.

Cain, on the other hand, proved something we know, and 1 thing we didn't know- He proved Kongo has still got a long way to go in the wrestling department. (which we all knew) and he proved that Kongo wears a thong, which we all didn't know



Well I don't think its the lack of depth of the UFC HW division I think it just the fact that you have fighters coming in to MMA now days that have great back grounds, are great athletes, and joining great camps right off the bat. Plus the other issue is there aren't very many true HWs around. Most rankings have the UFC holding 6 to 7 of the top ten HWs in the world. I think truly out of all the weight classes I think HW is the most lacking. But I think this holds true for all of MMA and not just one organization.



I agree that MMA overall lacks HW competitors. I also espouse the idea that there are very few true HW's. If you don't weigh in above 250 lbs then I don't consider you a TRUE HW. That's why I've always been an advocate for a 235 lb weight class. That's not to knock on guys who have been wildly successful at HW despite weighing in under 250, it's just part of what adds fuel to this fire of under experienced HW's.

I'm just saying, naming anybody outside of a UFC top 10 HW list is pretty difficult to do with a straight face.

1 Mir
2 Lesnar
3 Couture
4 Nog
5 Carwin
6 Velasquez
7 Dos Santos
8 Herring
9 Kongo
10 Gonzaga
11 Struve?
12 Barry?
13 Al Turk?
14 Hardonk?

I mean.. once you get past 10 it seems like it doesn't even matter at HW

To top all of that off outside of the UFC HW seems like it has become a joke, too. You have guys like Arlovski whom was once considered a top 3 HW that has now been KTFO'd several times in a row.

If the UFC was able to sign Barnett, Overeem, Rogers, Fedor, Werdum, I'd be singing a whole different tune. Get rid of Struve, Al Turk, Hardonk, Barry, etc. etc. and replace them with those guys, and then you're talking.
prozacnation1978
7/2/09 9:41:44AM
thought this was co main event in sept
but i like the match up,
can't wait to see those guys fight live
GSPCanada
7/2/09 2:00:37PM
I don't really care much for the matchup, i persnally think carwin has the better wrestling and striking along with being the bigger man. cains power is in serious question with the fight against stojnic and kongo, i basically see this being a first round tko for carwin believe it or not.

as for what it does for the hw division, winner of nog couture can face the winner of mir brock meanswhile the winner of this matchup can face dos santos if he wins which i expect him to do and especially if he does in impressive fashion like his last 2
whardin19
7/2/09 2:38:12PM
I think this fight had to happen. I've said it before. Not much else they can do with these guys.
telnights
7/2/09 10:31:41PM

Posted by Jackelope
If the UFC was able to sign Barnett, Overeem, Rogers, Fedor, Werdum, I'd be singing a whole different tune. Get rid of Struve, Al Turk, Hardonk, Barry, etc. etc. and replace them with those guys, and then you're talking.



Well we both know that the only guys on that list that may end up in the UFC are Overeem, Rogers, and Werdum. But I will say I have said for a long time that I felt AA and Tim were overrated and earned their rankings at a time that the UFC had a very very weak HW class. I don't see either of them making much of impact in the UFC at HW now. Overeem I would like to see in the UFC and might within a year. Rogers looked good against AA but I think you would agree he isn't ready to fight most of higher level HWs. Werdum the UFC has the upgraded version of him in Nog. Now I agree that Struve, Al Turk, Hardonk, and Barry aren't the cream of the crop but again good true HWs are hard to come by. Now the UFC is trying to bring in some new HWs with the next season of TUF but we will have to see how that turns out. The other problem is most good true HWs know they are a rare breed and want large amounts of money for that reason. I would also like to see all the top ten HWs fighting each other but I know it isn't realistic right now with Affliction dumping millions on HWs to build a brand. Maybe we will get lucky and Affliction will fold soon and the UFC will pick up all their HW fighters. Not that I want them to fail I just think its a matter of time with their current biz model.
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