Shalorus vs. Varner Decision

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lohmann
6/20/10 11:52:27PM
This thread seems obligatory.

29-27
28-28
27-29

How did you score the fight?
ncordless
6/20/10 11:55:53PM
I scored the fight 29-27 for Varner, with round 2 being a 10-8 round and Shalorus winning round 3.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/20/10 11:57:31PM


I would love to know what Quate? (sp) saw when he gave Shalorus a 29-27 nod.
npayant
6/20/10 11:57:45PM
This is getting absolutely ridiculous. It's almost on every big card now - someone getting screwed by the judges. When are we going to get some judges that can truly judge MMA?!?!?! I'm just pissed...

I had it:

29-27

1st rnd easily Varner... picked Kamal apart
2nd rnd much of the same from Varner's boxing...he even seriously rocked him a few times. And THEN the point deduction - 10-8 Varner
3rd rnd - Shalorus - basically due to Varner coasting

On a side note, Varner is sooo melodramatic about everything. It's difficult to watch.

Horrible decision though. 29-27 Shalorus - every round to Shalorus?!?! You've got to be kidding me!!

grappler0000
6/21/10 12:03:08AM
Yep, 29-27 here as well.
lohmann
6/21/10 12:03:17AM
Round 1 was very close, with Shalorus landing some kicks, to the legs, head and body as well as doing well in the exchanges in the pocket.

Cecil Peoples's 28-28 didn't offend me at all, even if I scored the fight 29-27 Varner personally.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 12:10:27AM
How is 29-27 for Shalorus even mathematically possible? If I understand the rules correctly the winner of the round MUST get 10 points, right? So, no matter what round 2 had to be 10-8, unless he'd planned on making round 2 a 10-10 round but had to deduct the point. That means he had to score Varner an 8 in some round.
ncordless
6/21/10 12:12:38AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

How is 29-27 for Shalorus even mathematically possible? If I understand the rules correctly the winner of the round MUST get 10 points, right? So, no matter what round 2 had to be 10-8, unless he'd planned on making round 2 a 10-10 round but had to deduct the point. That means he had to score Varner an 8 in some round.



The 10 is given to Shalorus, who is then deducted a point to make it a 9-9 round.
npayant
6/21/10 12:13:20AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

How is 29-27 for Shalorus even mathematically possible? If I understand the rules correctly the winner of the round MUST get 10 points, right? So, no matter what round 2 had to be 10-8, unless he'd planned on making round 2 a 10-10 round but had to deduct the point. That means he had to score Varner an 8 in some round.



It means that judge had it 10-9 for Shalorus in that round and with the point deduction it went to 9-9. He also had the other two rounds for Shalorus adding up to 29-27.

I've seen it happen a couple other times before where a point was deducted from a person for whatever reason, but he won the round making it 9-9.

EDIT - What ncordless said!
grappler0000
6/21/10 12:13:53AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

How is 29-27 for Shalorus even mathematically possible? If I understand the rules correctly the winner of the round MUST get 10 points, right? So, no matter what round 2 had to be 10-8, unless he'd planned on making round 2 a 10-10 round but had to deduct the point. That means he had to score Varner an 8 in some round.



I know they say 10 points or less, but with a point deduction, it would be 9-9 if Shalorus won the round.
ncordless
6/21/10 12:14:30AM

Posted by npayant


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

How is 29-27 for Shalorus even mathematically possible? If I understand the rules correctly the winner of the round MUST get 10 points, right? So, no matter what round 2 had to be 10-8, unless he'd planned on making round 2 a 10-10 round but had to deduct the point. That means he had to score Varner an 8 in some round.



It means that judge had it 10-9 for Shalorus in that round and with the point deduction it went to 9-9. He also had the other two rounds for Shalorus adding up to 29-27.

I've seen it happen a couple other times before where a point was deducted from a person for whatever reason, but he won the round making it 9-9.

EDIT - What ncordless said!



Ringer Power!!
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 12:22:36AM
Thank you, gentleman. The funny part is, I had mathematically, on paper, figured out every possible scenario but that one. I have a bunch paper with 10's, 9's, 8's, Varner's and Shalorus' sitting by my computer. Oh Occam's razor you've ****** me again
sbulldavid
6/21/10 12:48:49AM
I felt Varner did enough to win but I could accept a draw, I can't understand Kamal winning the second round. My biggest problem was the ref, I think he should have been more assertive. Cecil Peoples awarded two rounds to Shalorus, I would guess based on ring control and leg damage, probably because of the Shogun backlash. This just goes to show what hypocrites we all are.
MMAFightClothes
6/21/10 12:55:09AM

Posted by npayant

This is getting absolutely ridiculous. It's almost on every big card now - someone getting screwed by the judges. When are we going to get some judges that can truly judge MMA?!?!?! I'm just pissed...

I had it:

29-27

1st rnd easily Varner...totally dominated and picked Kamal apart
2nd rnd much of the same from Varner's boxing...he even seriously rocked him a few times. And THEN the point deduction - 10-8 Varner
3rd rnd - Shalorus - basically due to Varner coasting

On a side note, Varner is sooo melodramatic about everything. It's difficult to watch.

Horrible decision though. 29-27 Shalorus - every round to Shalorus?!?! You've got to be kidding me!!




Exactly how I saw it. Especially the part about Varner being melodramatic.
jiujitsufreak74
6/21/10 1:03:50AM
i did think it was kind of shady the way Varner was trying to grub an extra point deduction.

as for the decision, i was stuck between giving it a 28-28 draw or 29-27 Varner. Varner hurt Shalorus in both the first and the second, however, Shalorus was landing devastating leg kicks and seemed to look like the fighter in control. i didn't know whether to put more emphasis on Varner rocking him or Shalorus steadily dealing more damage. either way 29-27 Shalorus is just a travesty. this just goes to show you that the judging problem is getting worse and worse as i have been saying f or the past year and a half now. the fighters area all getting better and as a result the fights are getting closer. there has to be a better outlined set of rules and/or better judges to interpret those rules uniformly.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 1:22:23AM

Posted by sbulldavid

I felt Varner did enough to win but I could accept a draw, I can't understand Kamal winning the second round. My biggest problem was the ref, I think he should have been more assertive. Cecil Peoples awarded two rounds to Shalorus, I would guess based on ring control and leg damage, probably because of the Shogun backlash. This just goes to show what hypocrites we all are.



I hadn't thought about that. Props to you for pointing that out.
Jackelope
6/21/10 3:22:12AM
29-27 for Shalorus is absolutely inexcusable.

Leg kicks are big- yes - and I'm glad to see someone factoring them into the decision, but we clearly saw that while they hindered Varner's movement slightly they didn't hinder it to the point of rendering him ineffective. Compare that to Shalorus being on the verge of KO'd twice and I think you have to score in the favor of the near KO.

Wobbly legs and general disorientation as a result of head trauma are a much more severe sign of damage than a slight limp. That's how I reckon that.

As for Varner- he may be in trouble. He's broken his hand in every one of his last 3 fights. I've personally seen what repeated hand damage like that can do to a fighter's career. I'll make it short and say it can end it even if the fighter doesn't want to admit his career is over. It's a terrible thing and I really feel for Varner.

I've also got to add that Shalorus is a tough son of a bitch. I mean tough. I've trained with Varner and I can tell you the dude hits very, very hard for his size. Probably as hard as some middle weights. I've seen him rock a somewhat well known heavyweight once before with boxing gloves on now that I'm thinking about it.

28-28, maybe... slight stretch but somewhat understandable. 29-27 for Shalorus? No freaking way. At least Varner proved in this fight that he can take a beating (even one based in large part on fouls) and that he's a pretty tough dude.
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 3:46:23AM
I think the tough son of a bitch award goes to Varner in this fight. That dude got knocked in his man-branch three times by a dude that had given him a limp from those same legs. I'm not taking anything away from Shalorus, I thought he was dust a couple times, but having your dick kicked all over the octagon by Shalorus has earned Varner the "tough son of a bitch" award and permanent membership to the man-card club. I was cringing.

If the show Ow-My-Balls from the movie "Idiocracy" were real, this fight could have been its own episode.
Jshep714
6/21/10 4:07:46AM
Fight Metric is out and like me they have it 29-28 Varner 29-27 with the point deduction.

LINK
postman
6/21/10 8:11:46AM
I had it two rounds to one for Varner. I was confused as to why if Shalorus was docked the point already why was he not docked the third time it happened? Myself and BlueSkiesBurn have talked about the thought of having 5 judges and the high and low scores thrown out how do you guys feel about that?
komodo20
6/21/10 10:39:07AM
This was a bad call. Jamie Varner should of won 29-27 i tought. Jamie was doing a good job with his boxing he put him down a couple times and almost finished him. But i don't see how you can give this fight a draw very bad call. Jamie Varner was getting kicked in the nuts three times by Shalorus with those inside leg kicks. I saw Jamie winning the first and second and with a point taking away from Shalorus than he kicked Jamie again but referee didn't take another point but i give the third to Shalorus. But Jamie should of got the nod.
komodo20
6/21/10 10:48:32AM
The WEC and the UFC shoud do something about the judges. The WEC and UFC should use fighters as judges who know the sport and train and fought before. You need judges that know mma not just boxing.
npayant
6/21/10 11:28:00AM
Fight Metric - Varner/Shalorus - I knew they'd have this up quick. I don't know how much to look into Fight Metric, but they seem to be pretty accurate. Sure enough, they had it 29-28 Varner (29-27 with the point deduction)

EDIT: Oops, just saw that Jshep714 posted this a few back. Sorry about that.
postman
6/21/10 11:50:38AM

Posted by komodo20

The WEC and the UFC shoud do something about the judges. The WEC and UFC should use fighters as judges who know the sport and train and fought before. You need judges that know mma not just boxing.



The UFC and WEC and Strikeforce and the chump promotion down the streeet have nothing to do with who the judges are. They are appointed by the athletic commisions AKA the good old boy network. I have been wondering why Dana White will come out and blast Mazz but all you ever hear is don't leave it in the hands of the judges. Why not personally put the judges on blast?
Jackelope
6/21/10 12:54:46PM
It's all politics and money, man.

Rule # 1- It's all about the money.

Rule #2- If you don't think it's all about the money, see rule #1.

Was just thinking this morning about how tough it would be to come out in the 3rd and continue fighting after taking 3 to the pills like that. His stomach had to be killing him, lol.
Chael_Sonnen
6/21/10 1:07:44PM
The judges got it right....I had it a DRAW as well.
emfleek
6/21/10 1:13:21PM
The writing was on the wal...balls.

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noahgenda
6/21/10 1:33:53PM
i really really really dont like jamie varner. i find him to be whiney and annoying and full of himself. that being said, he should have won that fight


i also dislike his generic tattoos
BlueSkiesBurn
6/21/10 3:30:32PM
I wonder if his junk is swollen as hell today. That cannot be a pleasant experience. I don't know how hard Shalorus kicks, but jesus, it looked painful.
postman
6/21/10 3:40:12PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen

The judges got it right....I had it a DRAW as well.



Then one judge got it right in your eyes. the other gave it to Varner and the other to Shalorus.
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