Sell Fine, Lavigne Admits He Screwed Up

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DCRage
3/10/09 12:33:08PM
In comments made by both earlier today, Pete Sell did not criticize referee Yves Lavigne for his refereeing in his fight with Matt Brown at UFC 96, and Lavigne acknowledged that he "screwed up" and he'll learn from his mistakes in refereeing the fight.

Article (Fight Video After Jump)
Aether
3/10/09 1:19:14PM
well it's ridiculous to stop a fight and then tell the fighters to continue, but I think if Yves had stopped it when he initially intended to, Pete and a lot of other people would be complaining about a premature stoppage. My issue isn't that he let it go on for too long, Pete was rocked but he was still able to stand and move around pretty well, it was just the fact that he made a decision and then went back on it.

I think people are exaggerating the damage Sell was taking. If Yves hadn't jumped in the first time I don't think people would be as vocal about it being late.
motorboatensob
3/10/09 1:49:43PM
Sell might have been standing but at one time he fell with out even being touched, he even admitted he didn't even know what was going on. Lavignes bad call was letting the fight go as long as he did. It looked bad for the sport of MMA making it look like barbaric image they have finally gotten ride of.
DCRage
3/10/09 1:57:34PM
He did seem to do a flop at the end when Brown had him in the clinch, but before that I also noticed that Lavigne didn't stop the fight after what appeared to be Sell's mouthpiece was knocked out.
cowcatcher
3/10/09 1:58:05PM

Posted by motorboatensob

Sell might have been standing but at one time he fell with out even being touched, he even admitted he didn't even know what was going on. Lavignes bad call was letting the fight go as long as he did. It looked bad for the sport of MMA making it look like barbaric image they have finally gotten ride of.



i dont think that image is there anymore for the general public. mma is mainstream now man, there arent senators running around spouting off about it like they used to. the people bitching still are people involved in boxing because their sport is getting overshadowed by mma, and the people that bitch about all combat sports in general anyways.

yves screwed up, he admitted it, end of story.
theguido
3/10/09 2:17:01PM
I agree with cowcatcher Lavigne admited his mistake WOW what a step forward if you ask me. And yes all of you complaining about the late stoppage would be the same people complaining if he would have stopped it right away
bosanceros
3/10/09 2:18:27PM
haha i think this should be a message to those fighters that get their fights stopped and then they say they were fine when they clearly werent... i hope they watch this fight and say to themselves man the ref can keep this going as long as he wants even if im unconscious
MMAcca
3/10/09 2:33:48PM

Posted by cowcatcher

yves screwed up, he admitted it, end of story.



I agree. Lavigne is one of the best in the business but he is only human and he made a mistake. Being able to admit it publicly deserves a lot of respect imo.
Aether
3/10/09 2:46:29PM
He didn't fall over without being hit as far as I remember. Brown hit him with a right straight to the face on the last one. Pretty sure every time he went down was the result of being hit. Either way it's not like the guy was near death, he was dazed, it could have been stopped a little earlier but I think stopping the fight and resuming it was a much bigger problem. I think most fighters want that extra leeway as long as they're conscious, he was still making an effort to fight back up until the last right that put him on the mat, even if he was doing it unsuccessfully. If I were Pete I wouldn't have wanted it stopped until it was either.
wapttn
3/10/09 3:09:15PM
This would be my criteria for stopping a fight, and I think its very reasonable.

First and foremost... know the guys you're officiating. Some guys take more damage than others, some recovery faster than others, some are good at hiding how hurt they are and some arent. There needs to be a certain level of consistency, but you still need to take these things into account. Imagine if the standards which were applied to koscheck in his last fight were applied to nog vs herring, or nog vs sylvia?

If a fighter is rocked and is still standing... let it continue. The exception to this is if the fighter isnt intelligently defending himself and is taking repeated blows to the head. Staying on your feet is normally a sign that your not hurt too bad, but not necessarily a sign of intelligent defense.

If a fighter is knocked down, this alone is not a reason to stop the fight... this isnt amateur rules. If the fighter is blatantly unconscious then obviously stop the fight before the other guy is allowed to follow up with some ground and pound. If the fighter falls down and is isnt unconscious but way too rocked to even put his hands up then stop the fight. If a fighter is rocked, falls on his back
and looks ready to try and pull some sort of guard... it doesnt matter how rocked he looks, let him pull guard. If the other guy follows up and lands a couple ground and pound shots... then thats when you stop the fight.

I think thats the biggest issue in premature stoppages.... the refs dont let the rocked opponent mount that last defensive effort. That last defensive effort is not complex jiu jitsu and more often than not allows for an opponent to recover. If those last couple shots land, then you've given the guy every opportunity to defend himself and now you're just preventing further damage. Yes he may be able to come back after taking some repeated ground and pound (tito round 1 against liddell #2), but at that point you're getting dangerous and against the odds.

I feel like the good stoppages follow this criteria and the bad stoppages dont... but this sounds pretty straight forward doesnt it?
Focker101
3/11/09 9:59:52AM

Posted by wapttn

This would be my criteria for stopping a fight, and I think its very reasonable.

First and foremost... know the guys you're officiating. Some guys take more damage than others, some recovery faster than others, some are good at hiding how hurt they are and some arent. There needs to be a certain level of consistency, but you still need to take these things into account. Imagine if the standards which were applied to koscheck in his last fight were applied to nog vs herring, or nog vs sylvia?

If a fighter is rocked and is still standing... let it continue. The exception to this is if the fighter isnt intelligently defending himself and is taking repeated blows to the head. Staying on your feet is normally a sign that your not hurt too bad, but not necessarily a sign of intelligent defense.

If a fighter is knocked down, this alone is not a reason to stop the fight... this isnt amateur rules. If the fighter is blatantly unconscious then obviously stop the fight before the other guy is allowed to follow up with some ground and pound. If the fighter falls down and is isnt unconscious but way too rocked to even put his hands up then stop the fight. If a fighter is rocked, falls on his back
and looks ready to try and pull some sort of guard... it doesnt matter how rocked he looks, let him pull guard. If the other guy follows up and lands a couple ground and pound shots... then thats when you stop the fight.

I think thats the biggest issue in premature stoppages.... the refs dont let the rocked opponent mount that last defensive effort. That last defensive effort is not complex jiu jitsu and more often than not allows for an opponent to recover. If those last couple shots land, then you've given the guy every opportunity to defend himself and now you're just preventing further damage. Yes he may be able to come back after taking some repeated ground and pound (tito round 1 against liddell #2), but at that point you're getting dangerous and against the odds.

I feel like the good stoppages follow this criteria and the bad stoppages dont... but this sounds pretty straight forward doesnt it?






I agree with that criteria as a solid guideline

as for the topic All I expect from any Ref when they screw up is that they admit it
Lavigne I respect that you came out publicly to appologise for this
I am sure you will learn from this

EvenFlow
3/11/09 10:16:35AM
I'm not one to complain about a stoppage but when you step in and grab the fighter I mean.... Anyway I still think Yves is the best ref MMA.
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