Rubber Guard pros and Cons

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Jackelope
10/22/07 6:06:51PM
Okay so I know this is a bit of a sensitive subject for some people, but let's have it out and hear the sides. Personally my BJJ style incorporates the rubber guard, but many others have thrown it out as useless crap.

What I want to know is why do people think it is a good position, but others think it's total crap? Nevermind what your sensei, sifu, teacher, master or whatever has told you- what are your personal opinions?

I'll start it off by saying that I think one of the advantages of the rubber guard is that it is non-traditional and many folks who get caught up in it don't exactly know what to expect because they have not trained for it. I also think it's no gi application early in a fight when there isn't so much sweat is a great thing. The control of half of your opponent's upper body and the exposure of their face is something that could work hugely to your advantage in a fight.

On the downside I feel sometimes like personally my legs are a bit too thin to really, really trap someone in rubber guard. I also have the feeling that given a strong enough opponent you could be stacked and slammed in a big way, although it's never happened to me. (It's easy to let go of rubber guard to defend the slam)

so, what are your thoughts on why we don't see it so much in MMA and why so many people are haters/supporters?
Mitchell740
10/22/07 9:29:22PM
I submission wrestle with my friends sometimes, but I've never done formal BJJ, so I don't use it much unless for triangles. I'll start to use that more often. I also might add a defense from getting stacked is to just grab your opponents ancle as they start tto sttand annd bring them back to the ground.
jgordon85
10/23/07 1:25:41AM
it works but it is something you have to practice and perfect. you need real good flexiablity. to aviod the slam grap the persons leg as an defense. you do have a good point with the sweat issue but bjj gets difficult in any position when you sweat. all in all i think it is good.
cmill21
10/23/07 1:31:27AM
I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position
jgordon85
10/23/07 5:27:35PM

Posted by cmill21

I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position

the one thing with that is if you do not have long legs than it is tough to do it, and keep it. but a good method.
cmill21
10/23/07 9:58:49PM

Posted by jgordon85


Posted by cmill21

I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position

the one thing with that is if you do not have long legs than it is tough to do it, and keep it. but a good method.



Very true. I guess I didn't think of that lol. But try it out if you get a chance(not in a real fight) and see if you can, it's a very good thing to have.
Svartorm
10/25/07 4:01:05AM
My legs are too huge to do rubber guard and I've never run into anyone that does it. The few guys that use it to great effect in MMA/Sub grappling, like BJ Penn and Eddie Bravo, have almost inhuman flexability and dexterity, so I think thats what allows them to get it to work like it does. The only other guy I can think of that uses it somewhat effectively is Mayhem Miller, but I've never seen him actually sub anyone from rubber guard. He usually just uses it to keep dudes from hitting him.
Believe-in-judo81
10/25/07 10:52:39AM
I'm more of a butter fly guard/body triangle guy personally. But I'm very much a position before submission type grappler and prefer the top game so I usually do closed guard(I can sweep or sub from here but most guys expect it and unless they give me something i prefer to use it as a control position) then work to butterfly and try for a sweep or armbar if they give me one. But rubber guard definitely has it's uses, if you can get it quickly you can set up some very nice triangle chokes and it's great for rolling to omoplata control position to take and attack the back.(my personal favorite use when i can set up an omoplata)

So. in short it's not my favorite guard position, but it's definitely useful if you can hit it, and can be a very dangerous tool if you take the time to develop the flexibility and technique to use it to full effect.
Stickan
10/25/07 12:39:09PM
I like rubber guard sometimes when I like to get to my feet or just create some space to switch and go for a double.
Other than those basic moves I think it's a position for the little more skilled guys though. A lot of people I sparr with pull butterfly guard just because they like to try it on and I pass their guard like nothing. But some guys I know are just incredible with it and swees me and set up subs like they won't even need to put effort in it.
Those guys have trained with it for a long time though.

I guess it's an experience and preferance thing.
fedorwins1
10/25/07 3:48:06PM

Posted by cmill21

I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position



The body triangle from guard is basically a stalling move, whereas the rubber guard can be used to set up countless subs like bicep slicer, gogo, omoplata, triangle, armbar, etc.
bayonetxwork
10/25/07 5:25:54PM

Posted by fedorwins1


Posted by cmill21

I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position



The body triangle from guard is basically a stalling move, whereas the rubber guard can be used to set up countless subs like bicep slicer, gogo, omoplata, triangle, armbar, etc.



I love to use the body triangle to set up sweeps, and subs. My favorite thing to do is get a body triangle low on they're back, almost at their waist, and set up a head arm control from there, and then set up a sweep and get to side control to lock the side choke.

BTW I'm learning to like the rubber guard a lot. When I first started BJJ, I wasn't very flexible so I could never really take advantage of the position, but now that I've been doing it for a couple years, it works a lotttt better, now that I can actually touch my toes :]
cmill21
10/25/07 6:55:33PM

Posted by fedorwins1


Posted by cmill21

I like it, but I like the body triangle that anderson uses better. It's good for guys who aren't that good on the ground and need any advantage to keep guys from passing.(like me) Plus I have a choke I can use out of that position



The body triangle from guard is basically a stalling move, whereas the rubber guard can be used to set up countless subs like bicep slicer, gogo, omoplata, triangle, armbar, etc.



I disagree, it ruins their breathing, holds them in guard and instead of worrying about them gettin side or mount you can worry about getting punched and defending. As stated before it also sets other things up, if they try and turn or posture you could end up in the dominant position.
Believe-in-judo81
10/26/07 6:38:04AM
I have to agree with Cmill here, position before submission. Anything you can do to control and frustrate your opponent and force mistakes to gain dominant position is much more useful than taking a "maybe" sub opportunity. If the other player gives you a easy submission try, by all means take it, but otherwise you should ALWAYS work to advance to dominant position and then work to submit. Once again, this is just my style and my two cents, but I definitely recommend getting sweeps and transitions to dominant positions and top game subs down first for new grapplers. it helps build good habits for competition and develops solid fundamentals, and that's never a bad thing.
fedorwins1
10/26/07 8:34:47PM
Well I would much much much rather use rubber guard instead of body triangle. Body triangles for me are just awkward positions, I think because my legs are so short, but I'm pretty flexible so I can get rubber guard. Of course I'm one of the smallest people in my class, so sweeps are a bit harder for me to do, so I try to work from closed or rubber guard. IMO body triangles are only worth doing if you have someone's back.
cmill21
10/27/07 1:45:11AM

Posted by fedorwins1

Well I would much much much rather use rubber guard instead of body triangle. Body triangles for me are just awkward positions, I think because my legs are so short, but I'm pretty flexible so I can get rubber guard. Of course I'm one of the smallest people in my class, so sweeps are a bit harder for me to do, so I try to work from closed or rubber guard. IMO body triangles are only worth doing if you have someone's back.



i woulden't use a body triangle if you have their back, they could slip through and have you in a bad position, hooks only for the back, or just let em up. I want to get the fudge of the ground as quickly as I can though lol.
Vendetta
10/30/07 1:37:11PM
The biggest cons in my opinion is that it requires extreme flexibility to utilize to its fullest, and that it leaves you vulnerable to being stacked.
hado3
10/31/07 1:36:08PM
i dont believe what eddie bravo says like how anyone can get flexibility, i think they can but not the amount that u need to use rubber guard. It tears your knees up using it.

My advice is, unless u can naturally bring your legs up high enough for runner guard without having to pull them up with your arms dont use it. Not everyones knees are meant to bend like that

as far as MMA is concerned, a lot of guys will try and slam out of rubber guard which will really **** your back up
Jackelope
11/4/07 3:08:30PM

Posted by hado3

i dont believe what eddie bravo says like how anyone can get flexibility, i think they can but not the amount that u need to use rubber guard. It tears your knees up using it.

My advice is, unless u can naturally bring your legs up high enough for runner guard without having to pull them up with your arms dont use it. Not everyones knees are meant to bend like that

as far as MMA is concerned, a lot of guys will try and slam out of rubber guard which will really **** your back up



You know that's a damn good point. I really hadn't thought about what kind of damage it could be doing to my knees. Generally my knees feel fine, but over the years.. I wonder how bad it is for em.