royce gracie

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keith-hackney1
2/20/07 6:00:21PM
When you think of the name Royce Gracie you think ufc 1,2,3,4 and 5. When i first saw this guy sweep the mma world, i was amazed having never trained in mma myself and seen too many van damme / steven seagul movies. Ju jitsu took me by surprise, Royce is and always will be the first ultimate fighter who has world recognition for being a fighting idol. But after his un-impressive comeback at the pride grand prix where he was humiliated by the great sakiraba, I couldn't help but to think that the Gracie style was only invented for a short period.

By this i mean, after this sport MMA evolved from a style vs style contest, People got good in all area's of martial arts, cross-training etc. The gracies knew that their style would almost out class any striking martial arts therefor they would become famous from challenge matches against kung fu and karate.

Thats why in the early UFC days Rorion had the power as UFC owner to put royce against all the strikers, in order to win each fight. By UFC 5 Ken Shamrock had studied Royce and the Gracie style so they fought to a draw as Royce had no way of beating ken. Soon after that the Gracie fighters began to loose fights and become beatable because all fighters were trained in all area's of martial arts to compete with any style.

I seriously do believe that Royce retiered after UFC 5 to protect his unbeaten record in order to keep the Gracie name as a labelled unbeatable style.
As we all know, now that MMA is here instead of the old style fights, Royce and the Gracies are Human and their style is beatable.

Any thoughts ???


fedorwins1
2/20/07 6:28:16PM
Royce is one of the most famous fighters in MMA today. He showed us what Jiu Jitsu can do and that submissions are esential for MMA. However, now that MMA has evolved and people know how to defend submissions, we can see what kind of an impact he would have had on the sport if he would have came in later. I have ALOT of respect for Royce not only did he fight people twice his size he beat them easily and helped MMA explode in North America. The Gracie's are the most famous name in MMA and Royce will always be remembered as the champ of the first UFC events.
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 4:04:02PM
No one eles fancy ago on this one, i guess your all hard core gracie fans right ????

Im the real giant killer !!!!
madmarck
2/22/07 4:11:53PM
Royce is to BJJ as Dan Was to Wrestling.
they were both great in their day and have influenced the styles of others tothis day. BJJ still has a big part in MMA. Look at Frank Mir. That guy swept through the UFC HW divsion cuz it was all strikers.
pv3Hpv3p
2/22/07 4:11:55PM
Royce was perfect for his time in MMA, but then as guys like Bas Rutten and Don Frye started coming around (first two fighters that popped into my head that I believe were at the forefront of cross-training in contrasting styles) the Gracie's time had past...

Royce Gracie and the Gracie family will always be known as pioneers of the sport. Nothing can ever take that away from them, but as apose to having that unbeatable style, they are now more visibly one sided then the majority of the competition.
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 4:22:51PM
Your right, they always will be known for bringing ju jitsu to the world but i hate the way the gracies still claim that their style is the best and always will be. They hardly win convincinly these days, even the new generation are feeling the competition as theres no longer style vs style anymore. Isnt it time royce and his brothers who are still competing retire and let the new wave of gracie fighters come through with a bit more respect for the mma fighters around today.

Look at my right hand, jo son had it whack him in the ball bag so i could win the fight with him !! Im proud of that !!
pv3Hpv3p
2/22/07 4:29:35PM
I am not sure of the cultural differences but the Gracie's seem to come from an aspect of Brazilian culture that is steeped in pride for ones' self and ones' family... I honestly think that is where a lot of the GracieJJ is the best / Gracie Challenge and the like...

I will give props to some folks that are game to throw down with anyone if they talk smack about their family name... There's a certain pugilist honour to it, and it is after all a part of their family tradition...

I don't think that we will see any fighters retire while there is still money to be made, and I can't blame them for that... But I don't think they will stand in the way of the likes of Roger Gracie rising through the ranks of the MMA world.
hippysmacker
2/22/07 4:34:25PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Royce was perfect for his time in MMA, but then as guys like Bas Rutten and Don Frye started coming around (first two fighters that popped into my head that I believe were at the forefront of cross-training in contrasting styles) the Gracie's time had past...

Royce Gracie and the Gracie family will always be known as pioneers of the sport. Nothing can ever take that away from them, but as apose to having that unbeatable style, they are now more visibly one sided then the majority of the competition.



I wuld add Franks shamrock ( jerk that he now is IMo)tothe list of the first really crosstrained well known fighter. Ken too, but Franks surpassed him to me.
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 4:44:41PM
I couldnt understand frank mirs style of jj. He took all his fights to the mat up until he foght marcio cruz. He said in his pre fight interview that he didnt want to grapple with cruz, he got tko'd on the mat ? I thought his game was jj, i know cruz'z is jj but mir has no stand up skills !! ????
pv3Hpv3p
2/22/07 4:54:33PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

I couldnt understand frank mirs style of jj. He took all his fights to the mat up until he foght marcio cruz. He said in his pre fight interview that he didnt want to grapple with cruz, he got tko'd on the mat ? I thought his game was jj, i know cruz'z is jj but mir has no stand up skills !! ????



I dont know if Wes 'The Project' Simms would agree with you...

With that being said, I think he just realized that he was outmatched against PDP on the ground so tried to go about it a different way...

Obviously didn't work out for him...
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 4:59:29PM
wes sims walked into mirs hand, they were both gassed in that fight.
do you know if monsoon is soon to face fedor or is it just a rumour ??
hippysmacker
2/22/07 5:13:51PM
No, Fedor turned it down. Didn't think Monson was worthy I think.
pv3Hpv3p
2/22/07 5:14:27PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

wes sims walked into mirs hand, they were both gassed in that fight.
do you know if monsoon is soon to face fedor or is it just a rumour ??



I was just poking a little fun when I brought up Simms, I think Mir did land a solid knee that was the beginning of the end of that fight...

I think that Fedor is fighting Matt Lindland instead of Monson, though... If I'm not mistaken, I beleive the Snowman might be fighting AleksE. on the same BoDog fight card. I think there might be a thread on it in the 'other orgs' forum...
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 5:35:29PM
He aint worthy, he just lost to the greatest ufc hw champ mr poo silvia !

I think "I" the giant killer "keith hackney" should come out of retirement at the sweet age of 51 and kick some ass in the hw ufc division. My kempo strikes and sprawl defense is second to none. I could fight silvia and punch the lanky mother right between his legs, Then i could keep hitting him till he drops like emanuelle yarborough !! I'll have to make sure tim's chewing gum first, before i drop him !!!!
keith-hackney1
2/22/07 5:46:25PM
I know you were poking, so was i. I dont like either fighter really, frank could of been great if he'd stayed away from fast bikes.
Explain bodog to me ? i've heard alot bout this show but here in england, yesterdays news was two months ago to you guys. Where has bodog arrived, formed and who's in it ??

P.s... This is me "keith the giant killer hackney" with my two sons, jerome and kazushi"the polar penguin" varlans hackney.
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loller90278
2/22/07 8:21:37PM
i laugh at hackneys posts cuz always at the end theres something about keith hackney in the first point of view, and its comical

good job mate! (i mean.. keith..)
hippysmacker
2/22/07 8:39:29PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by keith-hackney1

wes sims walked into mirs hand, they were both gassed in that fight.
do you know if monsoon is soon to face fedor or is it just a rumour ??



I was just poking a little fun when I brought up Simms, I think Mir did land a solid knee that was the beginning of the end of that fight...

I think that Fedor is fighting Matt Lindland instead of Monson, though... If I'm not mistaken, I beleive the Snowman might be fighting AleksE. on the same BoDog fight card. I think there might be a thread on it in the 'other orgs' forum...



According to MMAWEEKLY Aleks is fighting Eric Pele
JunCTion
2/22/07 9:05:31PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Your right, they always will be known for bringing ju jitsu to the world but i hate the way the gracies still claim that their style is the best and always will be. They hardly win convincinly these days, even the new generation are feeling the competition as theres no longer style vs style anymore. Isnt it time royce and his brothers who are still competing retire and let the new wave of gracie fighters come through with a bit more respect for the mma fighters around today.

Look at my right hand, jo son had it whack him in the ball bag so i could win the fight with him !! Im proud of that !!



i still think their style is the best (style v style)
but their style cant compete with someone with a miltitude of styles (1, almost always being JJ) but you could say that about any body. just a striker couldnt compete, neither could just a wrestler. so when they say their style is the best, i think they mean their style against anothers one style. thay had such an impact early on that everyone wanted to learn BJJ but because theirs was the best they didnt feel the need to add to their arsenal and that hurts them now.
i believe that their impact is why so many now have good all around skills.
strikers want to learn how to grapple, wrestlers want to learn submissions, everybody want to learn how to defend a choke.
pv3Hpv3p
2/23/07 10:14:40AM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Explain bodog to me ? i've heard alot bout this show but here in england, yesterdays news was two months ago to you guys. Where has bodog arrived, formed and who's in it ??

P.s... This is me "keith the giant killer hackney" with my two sons, jerome and kazushi"the polar penguin" varlans hackney.



To be honest, I dont' know much about it... BoDog's a company that I think started as an internet poker site and then has been trying to diversify since...

They put on one show last year and billed it as Russia vs the USA... I think they did some reality show type thing with it, which I heard was horrible, but it was basically a bunch of Americans fighting guys from Red Devil Sports Club...

They must be doing something right, last year they had the MMA debut of Roger Gracie and this year they have Fedor and Aleks signed to fight... That's about all I know...

And sorry about the mix up, Aleks is fighting Eric Pele as Hippysmacker stated, not Jeff Monson...
JunCTion
2/23/07 4:06:36PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by keith-hackney1

Explain bodog to me ? i've heard alot bout this show but here in england, yesterdays news was two months ago to you guys. Where has bodog arrived, formed and who's in it ??

P.s... This is me "keith the giant killer hackney" with my two sons, jerome and kazushi"the polar penguin" varlans hackney.



To be honest, I dont' know much about it... BoDog's a company that I think started as an internet poker site and then has been trying to diversify since...

They put on one show last year and billed it as Russia vs the USA... I think they did some reality show type thing with it, which I heard was horrible, but it was basically a bunch of Americans fighting guys from Red Devil Sports Club...

They must be doing something right, last year they had the MMA debut of Roger Gracie and this year they have Fedor and Aleks signed to fight... That's about all I know...

And sorry about the mix up, Aleks is fighting Eric Pele as Hippysmacker stated, not Jeff Monson...



im not positive but from what i see and here the bodog events we see on ion happened some time ago. the free ppv last week was afew months old and the 30 min show bodog fight st petersburg are fights from past ppvs a little bit like unleashed

yes they did start as online poker and made big bucks and he can afford his mma brand and has deep enough pockets to last through hard times of being a rookie org. i think they sign a lot of 1 or 2 fight deals / not long term contracts. so they can pay top dollar for some good 1 time fights and then go from there.
having the Em brothers should boost their credability ten fold.

maybe bodog would be willing to get some big time pride / ufc fights just promoting the fighters, not their orgs or their belts

theres a lot of loose change to throw around at bodog
keith-hackney1
2/23/07 4:15:26PM
Keiths the man !!!! Keiths number 1... "aint that right mr rutten?" !!!!
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pv3Hpv3p
2/23/07 4:36:18PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Keiths the man !!!! Keiths number 1... "aint that right mr rutten?" !!!!



you aren't going to start turning into that guy that spams Rashad all over every post are you???

Well, at least there's a little more humor behind Hackney
JunCTion
2/23/07 5:12:39PM
this thread isnt about royce anymore, is it?
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