Rousey gets UFC belt

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prozacnation1978
11/18/12 7:04:05PM
I don't know about that

I think her vs cyborg should have done for title belt
Bubbles
11/18/12 8:31:53PM

Posted by Gogoplatapus

What were the ratings for Kaufman vs Cohen?


who's Cohen?

I'll assume you mean Coenen...and that wasn't even the co-main event, let alone main event so that point is invalid
MALICE
11/18/12 8:43:14PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Gogoplatapus

What were the ratings for Kaufman vs Cohen?


who's Cohen?

I'll assume you mean Coenen...and that wasn't even the co-main event, let alone main event so that point is invalid



I believe the point was unless Rousey has been in the fight, most women's MMA fights have not gotten high ratings. Why is that point not valid?
warglory
11/18/12 8:45:52PM
So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain that she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.
Gogoplatapus
11/18/12 8:52:32PM

Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.
Gogoplatapus
11/18/12 8:54:16PM

Posted by MALICE


Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Gogoplatapus

What were the ratings for Kaufman vs Cohen?


who's Cohen?

I'll assume you mean Coenen...and that wasn't even the co-main event, let alone main event so that point is invalid



I believe the point was unless Rousey has been in the fight, most women's MMA fights have not gotten high ratings. Why is that point not valid?



It is valid. Guys are trying to convince themselves that this is good because Uncle Dana says it's good.
warglory
11/18/12 8:54:19PM

Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.



"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.
warglory
11/18/12 8:57:15PM

Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by MALICE


Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Gogoplatapus

What were the ratings for Kaufman vs Cohen?


who's Cohen?

I'll assume you mean Coenen...and that wasn't even the co-main event, let alone main event so that point is invalid



I believe the point was unless Rousey has been in the fight, most women's MMA fights have not gotten high ratings. Why is that point not valid?



It is valid. Guys are trying to convince themselves that this is good because Uncle Dana says it's good.



So you're saying that hardcore MMA fans aren't experienced enough in the viewing of this sport to recognize skilled fighters vs the unskilled, male or female? Give me a break.
prophecy033
11/18/12 9:06:51PM

Posted by grappler0000

What are you guys talking about? The Flyweights had a tourney because it was a new division. This is just transferring a division from Strikeforce to the UFC. The same thing happened when Aldo came from the WEC to the UFC. I don't understand the complaints. This is exactly how it was supposed to happen.

MALICE
11/18/12 9:07:19PM

Posted by warglory
"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



I don't see how this statement is sexist. I don't like watching the WNBA, but I do enjoy watching the NBA. Why do you think that is? Does it make me sexist? I don't want women's or men's golf, tennis, and soccer for the exact same reason. Bottom line is, the statement was not sexist. You have just played the sexist card for no apparent reason.
warglory
11/18/12 9:54:30PM

Posted by MALICE


Posted by warglory
"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



I don't see how this statement is sexist. I don't like watching the WNBA, but I do enjoy watching the NBA. Why do you think that is? Does it make me sexist? I don't want women's or men's golf, tennis, and soccer for the exact same reason. Bottom line is, the statement was not sexist. You have just played the sexist card for no apparent reason.



The WNBA is a totally separate organization from the NBA, and virtually all the other sports you mentioned also all have separate leagues promoting their individual sports with varying degrees of success. The UFC has a far different format than virtually all other sports in existence, because it promotes itself as a brand (like the WWE), as opposed to simply being an organizing federation for team and/or individual athletes.

Unlike female variations (i.e. the WNBA), with separate management, money and production values, the UFC's production, international reach, and financial clout covers every division of athletes in it's organization, and allows persons to dictate their own destiny. So for a fan to say that they would rather keep women off of main cards, and reserve them for their own brand within the same organization, that is blatantly sexist and a clear demonstration of giving men better opportunities than women, when it doesn't have to be that way (unlike other sports).

I know you and others who support your opinion of the "separate but equal" concept think it's best for those who don't like female mma, but think about that statement for a moment, and how that has worked out in a historical context.

And for the record, if someone said the same thing about female tennis players not needing to be on the same card as male tennis players (as that is one of the few sports in the world where females and males are respected equally, if not more so for the women), that would be equally sexist, whether you personally enjoy watching tennis or not.
Bubbles
11/18/12 11:01:36PM

Posted by MALICE


Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Gogoplatapus

What were the ratings for Kaufman vs Cohen?


who's Cohen?

I'll assume you mean Coenen...and that wasn't even the co-main event, let alone main event so that point is invalid



I believe the point was unless Rousey has been in the fight, most women's MMA fights have not gotten high ratings. Why is that point not valid?


because you cant compare the ratings for an event headlined by Rousey and an event that wasn't headlined by Coenen vs Kaufman unless you compare Rousey vs ___ to Noons vs Diaz II. That is why it is invalid. That's like comparing the PPV buys between GSP vs Condit and Bisping vs Stann.
Bubbles
11/18/12 11:04:59PM

Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain that she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.


this x 1000. I need to STL
bjj1605
11/18/12 11:29:23PM

Posted by DancingDoll

Makes sense to me. They bring in a new division so the current title holder should get the belt. She's more than earned it, in my opinion.



Exactly.

There is no reason to have a title fight when you already have a champ. It wouldn't make any sense.

It would be like stripping her of the title.
MALICE
11/19/12 7:58:34AM
Hmmm. Some very good points. Thank you, warglory, for your well thought out posts.
Gogoplatapus
11/19/12 10:23:32AM

Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.



"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



Must've deployed the go go gadget arms you're reaching so far. Dont take my words out of context, son.
warglory
11/19/12 12:06:20PM

Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.



"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



Must've deployed the go go gadget arms you're reaching so far. Dont take my words out of context, son.



I'm sorry, how am I taking this statement out of context? It seems to be pretty cut and dry to me. You said that women should have a separate show from the men, despite being part of the same organization. That is quite sexist.
warglory
11/19/12 12:09:42PM

Posted by MALICE

Hmmm. Some very good points. Thank you, warglory, for your well thought out posts.



Gogoplatapus
11/19/12 1:11:19PM

Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.



"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



Must've deployed the go go gadget arms you're reaching so far. Dont take my words out of context, son.



I'm sorry, how am I taking this statement out of context? It seems to be pretty cut and dry to me. You said that women should have a separate show from the men, despite being part of the same organization. That is quite sexist.



DUDE, if there was maybe even 5 or 6, rock solid 135lb woman to come into the UFC and create a viable division where we can have competitive fights I'M ALL FOR IT.

But there is ONE ONE ONE ONE competitor. Its useless. Not sexist in any shape or form, don't put that on me.
scoozna
11/19/12 2:09:26PM

Posted by warglory
"...and allows persons to dictate their own destiny.



That goes a bit far for me, but I think both sides are making good arguments here. I don't think Rousey should have to have a fight in the UFC to (presumably) win the belt. Her first fight will be a title defense anyways.

Having said that, I think the comparison to the WNBA is more accurate than not. While Rousey and Cyborg have made great strides in narrowing the skill and excitement level differences between the men and the women, a valid argument can be made that it is not quite on the same level yet. Personally, I think it's real close with those two - but not enough to make a women's division (or promotion, or league, or whatever).

Good discussion.
airkerma
11/19/12 2:27:00PM
Not to mention a person can't dictate their own destiny, as that contradicts the definition of destiny.
MALICE
11/19/12 7:42:21PM
I see Gogoplatapus' points, Bubbles' points, and warglory's points. Although I somewhat disagree with Bubbles' and warglory's points, they have definitely made me view the subject from another perspective. But I still think the UFC is not ready for a women's division. I'm sure it will be slow at first.
warglory
11/19/12 8:19:45PM

Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory


Posted by Gogoplatapus


Posted by warglory

So basically what we can gather from this thread is that sexism is pretty widespread in MMA, even amongst hardcore fans. Sorry, but it's true.

There was no contention when Aldo and Cruz acquired their belts unchallenged, because they proved themselves to be the best in their divisions under the WEC banner, and when WEC merged with the UFC (thus becoming one company), the WEC champions became UFC champions. There were no existing UFC champions, so there wasn't need for a unification bout.

When Dan Henderson came to the UFC from PRIDE, he had to have unification bouts with both Silva AND Rampage. Do you think he was just simply the #1 contender? No. These were billed as unification bouts.

Had there been challengers for Aldo, Cruz and now Rousey, there is little doubt there would have been unification bouts.

But Rousey is a woman, and as people have clearly admitted in this thread, many don't consider her or other female fighters to be worthy of a UFC title, so suddenly the UFC has to change tradition to pacify fans with a demonstration of Rousey's worthiness to compete in the UFC. Do you all realize that blacks had to prove themselves above and beyond their white competitors in the MLB and other mainstream American sports before they became a normal part of the culture? I'm sorry, but this is nothing new. Rousey and many other female fighters have more than showed that they have a place in the big show, time and time again, I am fairly certain they she didn't have to give sexual favors to Dana White.

This is what the word "hogwash" was invented for.



I guess whoever said Dana is banging her could be a sexist comment but nothing else in this thread has struck me as sexist.

Bottom line is that aside from lightning striking, the product is boring and there is only one relevant fighter in the world. One.

Don't believe the hype.



"I like the idea of All Womans UFC being totally separate so I can avoid it entirely." This, sir, is sexist.



Must've deployed the go go gadget arms you're reaching so far. Dont take my words out of context, son.



I'm sorry, how am I taking this statement out of context? It seems to be pretty cut and dry to me. You said that women should have a separate show from the men, despite being part of the same organization. That is quite sexist.



DUDE, if there was maybe even 5 or 6, rock solid 135lb woman to come into the UFC and create a viable division where we can have competitive fights I'M ALL FOR IT.

But there is ONE ONE ONE ONE competitor. Its useless. Not sexist in any shape or form, don't put that on me.



Are you not a fan of having a 135 division for men in the UFC? There isn't a lot of name fighters out there, but that didn't stop the UFC from establishing that division, and I have heard very few voices say that was a bad move.

Furthermore, how can you say there are no other fighters out there at 135 for Rousey? You all but admitted you are not interested in female MMA. If there were no names for her to fight, she wouldn't be a name brand right now. She came out of nowhere, because she put the hurting on well respected fighters. It's like saying there shouldn't have been a heavyweight division when Fedor was in his prime, because he beat everyone, or a middleweight division because of Anderson. There is plenty of competition at 135, you just have to bring them together.

Rin Nakai, 12-0, 9 finishes. She is very strong with good footwork and solid wrestling abilities, and would bring a solid following from Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvX3qayGfBc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmtHZXTqhPE

Sara McMann
Cat Zingano
Marloes Coenen
Gina Carano?
Alexis Davis

The way you made your point, you came across as feeling like there should be two separate orgs within the UFC, for males and females. If you had simply said there's not enough competition to justify a new female division, that would be a rational argument, one that I would still disagree with, but it wouldn't come across as being so dismissive of female MMA.

bjj1605
11/19/12 9:09:18PM
For the record, I'm not in favor of 135 or 125 for men. There isn't enough talents and the fights just aren't interesting.

Same two reasons I'm not interested in women's MMA.
Bubbles
11/19/12 10:32:43PM

Posted by MALICE

I see Gogoplatapus' points, Bubbles' points, and warglory's points. Although I somewhat disagree with Bubbles' and warglory's points, they have definitely made me view the subject from another perspective. But I still think the UFC is not ready for a women's division. I'm sure it will be slow at first.


I can sort of agree with the UFC not being ready yet. They need to stockpile fighters and promote them. I can definitely see a womens TUF coached by Tate and Rousey in the near future
infestructure
11/19/12 10:47:29PM

Posted by warglory



Are you not a fan of having a 135 division for men in the UFC?




I would much rather have a stacked women's division than those prepubescent schoolboys fighting
jae_1833
11/20/12 12:32:07AM
Holy shit guys! Chillax!!! My statement was more joke than serious.......yeah I think it's lame to have a 9 fight experienced fighter declared the champ in a new division that is definitely weak but in no way am I serious about her and Dana banging. I thought having a tourney or female TUF would be a cool way to introduce the new division and prove the new divisions worth to fans who have not seen WMMA. Bunch of oversensitiveness IMO for a MMA site.
bjj1605
11/20/12 9:32:09AM

Posted by jae_1833

Holy shit guys! Chillax!!! My statement was more joke than serious.......yeah I think it's lame to have a 9 fight experienced fighter declared the champ in a new division that is definitely weak but in no way am I serious about her and Dana banging. I thought having a tourney or female TUF would be a cool way to introduce the new division and prove the new divisions worth to fans who have not seen WMMA. Bunch of oversensitiveness IMO for a MMA site.



But there is no precedent for that.

Aldo became the champ at 145 when the WEC merged with the UFC.

There is already a women's Zuffa Champion so it doesn't make sense to strip her of the title just because they are moving her to a different org.
Gogoplatapus
11/20/12 12:25:41PM

Posted by jae_1833

Holy shit guys! Chillax!!! My statement was more joke than serious.......yeah I think it's lame to have a 9 fight experienced fighter declared the champ in a new division that is definitely weak but in no way am I serious about her and Dana banging. I thought having a tourney or female TUF would be a cool way to introduce the new division and prove the new divisions worth to fans who have not seen WMMA. Bunch of oversensitiveness IMO for a MMA site.



Beware Captain Save-A-Hoe's everywhere.
prophecy033
11/20/12 12:50:52PM
IMO womens fights are exciting. Who doesn't wanna see finishes?
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