richie's TUF 3 rant

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johny_rotten
6/30/07 3:05:17PM
I can't stand Ken, but I agree with a lot of what you said. In a matter of 6 weeks you are not going to change a fighter that much. The biggest area of improvement you can make in a fighter in 6 weeks is definitely in strength and conditioning. The people on Ken's team were morons for doubting this choice of a coach and for not utilizing him to the fullest. With the emergence of MMA to a main stream sport most of the fighters train full time, and have very close to equal skill sets. Over the past 2 years we have seen great conditioning be the difference in many fights(IE all of Diego's fights, and many of the great LW match ups lately.)

The main problem I had with Ken's coaching was he didn't seem to get involved in the day to day training as much as many other coaches. It could have been editing, but during the majority of the practices Ken was barking out orders from the sidelines. While guys like Tito, Randy, Matt, and BJ were in the middle of practice sweating with their team. I know if I was on the show I would want to roll and spar with the main coach.
CornishMMA
6/30/07 3:47:12PM
Totally agree richie - Ken did get screwed on the show and anyone would be dumb to totally believe the "reality" editing etc

The only thing i think he should have done is have a BJJ coach as well or if it had to be instead of strength and conditioning, cos Ken could of handled that kind of stuff himself imo

Even now Ken would be a tough test for some of the poorer LHW's on the big shows so i would like to see him fight again at the rtight calibre opponent
kaduey
7/2/07 4:07:34PM

Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.
SatanJR
7/2/07 4:11:24PM


The Fwi is watching you richie.....
nubby
7/2/07 5:10:54PM

Posted by richieb19


Posted by nubby

LOL what's funny is that you didn't know that about ken Shamrock. I've heard some horro stories about that guy and his brother.

What do you mean, about the autograph signing? I'm not saying it isn't true, I just think it's hilarious that it's the only reason Tito could come up with...



I highly doubt that is the only reason Tito has for hating Ken. I don't know about you guys but generally when I hate someone, I can't really explain why I hate them, it's theire entire demeanor, their aura, their attitude about everything. I could easily see this being the main reason for them hating each other.
richieb19
7/2/07 8:16:46PM

Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.

Don't go off-track, you said his grappling was outdated... his style is exactly the same as Barnett and Saku.
kaduey
7/3/07 2:45:10PM

Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.

Don't go off-track, you said his grappling was outdated... his style is exactly the same as Barnett and Saku.



I believe you are the one who went off track when you mentioned Barnett and Saku in my argunments regarding Shamrock.
nubby
7/3/07 2:49:18PM
If Shamrock isn't outdated in his fighting style then why does he keep losing? It's not his conditioning, the guy looks to be in tip top shape... so what else is there?
richieb19
7/3/07 11:58:52PM

Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.

Don't go off-track, you said his grappling was outdated... his style is exactly the same as Barnett and Saku.



I believe you are the one who went off track when you mentioned Barnett and Saku in my argunments regarding Shamrock.


Not at all, and by no means am I trying to make this personal. But you where quick to mention that Shamrock's grappling style was outdated, but that Barnett and Sakuraba's weren't because they've beaten top competition... Catch wrestling is catch wrestling... that would be like saying Royce Gracie's Jiu Jitsu is outdated cause he couldn't beat Hughes... plus Shamrock has never even been close to being submitted since the sport has "evolved"... I'm just pointing out the major flaw in your statement...
kaduey
7/4/07 10:23:48AM

Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.

Don't go off-track, you said his grappling was outdated... his style is exactly the same as Barnett and Saku.



I believe you are the one who went off track when you mentioned Barnett and Saku in my argunments regarding Shamrock.


Not at all, and by no means am I trying to make this personal. But you where quick to mention that Shamrock's grappling style was outdated, but that Barnett and Sakuraba's weren't because they've beaten top competition... Catch wrestling is catch wrestling... that would be like saying Royce Gracie's Jiu Jitsu is outdated cause he couldn't beat Hughes... plus Shamrock has never even been close to being submitted since the sport has "evolved"... I'm just pointing out the major flaw in your statement...



Alright I can see what your trying to say, but I didn't mean it like that. I meant that Shamrock's overall personal techniques and skills are inferior for today's fight game. I respect Ken for being a pioneer but he is what he is.
johny_rotten
7/4/07 12:28:31PM

Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey


Posted by richieb19


Posted by kaduey

Hasn't caught up?
Shamrock fought Funaki more then ten years ago. MMA is a completely different animal now. Not only are Shamrock's grappling techniques outdated, but Shamrock himself is also outdated. Look at his Stellar last 10 years (sacrasm).


So then you must be saying also that Barnett and Sakuraba's ground games are out of date aswell then?



What do Barnett and Sakuraba have to do with Shamrock, because they're catch wrestlers? Barnett and Sakuraba have fought at the highest levels in mma and won. Shamrock has not done this since mma has evolved.

Don't go off-track, you said his grappling was outdated... his style is exactly the same as Barnett and Saku.



I believe you are the one who went off track when you mentioned Barnett and Saku in my argunments regarding Shamrock.


Not at all, and by no means am I trying to make this personal. But you where quick to mention that Shamrock's grappling style was outdated, but that Barnett and Sakuraba's weren't because they've beaten top competition... Catch wrestling is catch wrestling... that would be like saying Royce Gracie's Jiu Jitsu is outdated cause he couldn't beat Hughes... plus Shamrock has never even been close to being submitted since the sport has "evolved"... I'm just pointing out the major flaw in your statement...



Since the sport has evolved Ken hasn't fought anyone who would go for a submission besides Sak. Sak dropped him in like 30 seconds so it doesn't really count.

Ken's catch wrestling is not the same as Sak's and Barnett's. Catch has changed since BJJ has exploded. It continues to evolve taking aspects of BJJ. While Josh(really Erik Pulson) and Sak have integrated BJJ in to their styles Ken has lagged behind. He has a horrible guard, and basically no submissions from his back.
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