Why Rich Franklin Will Lose.

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POLL: Will Hamill's size be a problem for Rich?
Yes 44% (48)
No 56% (60)
bullettdodger
8/13/08 7:01:41PM
Hamil UD i think, i don't see either one finishing eachother, and i think its going to be decided with wrestling either in the clinch or on the mat, unless theres a flash ko like seanfu said, i think this is going to be a grind.
Bowen50
8/13/08 7:15:57PM
i think Hamill will win by UD or a late TKO. hes a VERY strong wrestler and has the ability, i think, to get Rich down and keep him there and pound him. i like both fighters but i think Franklin might be biting off a little more than he can chew. this isn't going to be like when he moved up to fight ken shamrock. Hamill's striking has improved plus he can set up his strikes with fake shots. i think Hamill has a really good shot to win this fight.
ziegler3334
8/13/08 7:16:32PM
Franklin is by far the best opponent Hamill has faced, even if he's coming up to his weight. Hamill may be the better wrestler, but franklin's bjj is far superior, so the ground isn't neccesarily safe for Hamill. It is however safer than the stand up, where franklin will have the biggest advantage. I see the first round being primarily on the ground, a close round with franklin winning tho. then franklin will land a good one in the second and pound it out for the tko.
Gipper
8/13/08 7:41:18PM
don't count rich out. the guy is still one of the best pound 4 pound fighters in the world. he should be able to find a way to win.
Solidus
8/13/08 8:25:24PM

Posted by MikeyG

Why do people assume Matt is dumb because hes deaf?



I dont see anyone but you bringing the fact that he's deaf into the conversation, it doesnt even belong here. It's no merit to his fighting abilities.

Anyway, I wonder if Franklin's best days are behind him. He hasnt looked all that impressive lately, his fights with Silva excluded. He barely got the win over Okami and struggled to finish McDonald. Lutter would have eventually submitted him if he had the cardio to last longer than a minute.

Hamill on the other hand looks better with every fight. His cardio is still questionable but I have to assume it's improved. I think Hamill takes this by UD. Franklin can only win by keeping it standing, and while he has awesome takedown defense, Hamill being the bigger guy and strong wrestler will work through that. I doubt he'll be able to sub Hamill on the ground.

All signs point to Hamill, unless he's deluded enough to think he can stand and strike with Franklin.
BIGKAT
8/13/08 10:52:05PM

Posted by ziegler3334

Franklin is by far the best opponent Hamill has faced, even if he's coming up to his weight. Hamill may be the better wrestler, but franklin's bjj is far superior, so the ground isn't neccesarily safe for Hamill. It is however safer than the stand up, where franklin will have the biggest advantage. I see the first round being primarily on the ground, a close round with franklin winning tho. then franklin will land a good one in the second and pound it out for the tko.



I agree...
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
8/13/08 10:54:51PM

Posted by gsquat

If you look at Rich's wins you'll see that he was always the bigger, stronger fighter. He loses when he isn't (Silva, Machida). Now obviously thats not all. Their skill level was simply higher than his, but Rich is always used to using his size to win. Whether for intimidation (Quarry) or physicality (McDonald/Okami). That didn't work against Silva and Machida. Hamill is bigger stronger, and has plenty of skill. He's going to press forward on Rich and will score takedowns. Matt's only loss was, as we know, controversial... but he still lost. Bispings style ins't too different from Franklin's. A little more spastic, but similar. Hamill got Bisping to the ground several times. He's a different fighter from then and probably would've pounded Bisping out if he was the fighter he is now. Honestly, I think Rich should just stick to the MW division.



Rich was the bigger , stronger fighter when he fought machida. RIch (especially at lHW) walks around close to 220, while machida walks around at 200. intimidation is not what beat quarry. A punch right on the chin did. Quarry throws a lot of hooks and keeps his chin straight up in the air, not the best idea against some 1 who throws a lot of straight punches and has a reach advantage. I dont know what you mean by physicality , but he outclassed mcdonald and okami(both are 6'2/6'3 and walk around at almost the same weight). I do agree hammill will beat rich. Hamill has amazing take downs to which no1 in the middle weight division ( possibly even hendo) could stop. I expect matt hamill to strike with rich and mix up the take downs to win a unanimous win. I dont see why rich shouldn't move up to lhw. Theres no point in him constantly knocking off number 1 contenders. Watching irvin get ktfo in 30 seconds has to of given rich some confidence.
Pitbull09
8/13/08 11:25:03PM
Hamil is overrated in this fight. Franklin may not be his best at LHW but Hamil is far from a threat. Franklin has better striking no doubt and I dont think Hamil will be able to keep him on the ground.
Franklin 1st or 2nd KO
tepid55
8/13/08 11:27:49PM
Rich Franklin has a very dangerous guard and could submit Hamil off his back.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
8/14/08 9:32:38PM

Posted by Pitbull09

Hamil is overrated in this fight. Franklin may not be his best at LHW but Hamil is far from a threat. Franklin has better striking no doubt and I dont think Hamil will be able to keep him on the ground.
Franklin 1st or 2nd KO



avatar bet?
bls1919
8/14/08 10:40:40PM
Rich was huge at MW. 205 will be a better weight for him. This is a tough fight to call though. I hope Hammil doesnt put to much faith into his newfound love of striking. Because Rich is no Tim Boetsch. He will pick him apart on the feet. To win Frankllin needs to keep his distance with his jab and his kicks . Then capitalize on Hammils mistakes.
Naturaldisaster
8/14/08 11:04:55PM
Im prayin that Hamill wins. He's one of my favorite fighters. But really I dont think the size will be that big of a deal. What franklin lacks in size, he makes up for in skill and technique. He's fought at LHW before so he knows what to expect. with that being said, Hamill has great takedowns and his hands have gotten alot better (not as good as richs though). I think Hamill has to press the action and take rich off of his game plan, like silva did. Hamill will imo try to stand with rich for the 1st couple of minutes then he will go to what he does best and thats his wrestling
the_01
8/14/08 11:27:17PM
If Franklin dosnt work on takedown defense, Hamill is going to ride him untill the end of the 3rd round and get the decision.
Aaronno9
8/15/08 6:02:50AM
I really think Rich is going to rock Hammil with a head kick and finish him with a quick flurry. Rich has very underrated jits and if Hammil takes him down hes not just going to beable to lay their becouse rich will constantly be looking for subs and escapes. Hammils best chance in my mind is if he catches Ace with a big hook and knocks him out. Other than that i dont see how he can win. People seem to forget he used to clinch to win alot of fights before anderson came along, so if Hammil clinches with him im sure hes not going to be to worried.

Anyways, my prediction is a 3rd tko via head kick.
Kracker_Jap
8/15/08 6:31:29PM

Posted by Pitbull09

Hamil is overrated in this fight. Franklin may not be his best at LHW but Hamil is far from a threat. Franklin has better striking no doubt and I dont think Hamil will be able to keep him on the ground.
Franklin 1st or 2nd KO



Hamil is a unsharpened Pencil..... Similar to Brock Lesnar

IMO every time Hamil steps into the cage we will see a better Hamil....

Who knows If he will be at the level he needs to be to beat Franklin

one thing we do know is if Matt loses to Rich his career we keep on going.... But if Rich loses we will here the is it time to retire talk
Pookie
8/15/08 8:42:26PM

Posted by wiggum

franklin has fought at hw coming up, so no, he has not always been the bigger stronger fighter in his wins....franklins striking is more refined and powerful and quicker than bispings and is more boxing orientated which is better for takedown defense than kickboxing orientated like bispings is ...



Rich's striking is very awkward and leaves many holes defensively when he strikes, to say that he is more refined than bisbing is innaccurate


Posted by wiggum
his submissions are better than anybodys than hamill has faced....basically what im getting at is this is the best fighter hamill has ever faced, wether he's coming up in weight or not.....



True



Posted by wiggum
hamill has improved striking, but its still piss-poor...just cuz someone is better at something than they used to be, doesnt mean they are good at it....


I disagree but this is a subjective opinion so theres nothing i can really say to change your mind here, agree to disagree


Posted by wiggum
and also hes strength is average for lhw, his wrestling is top notch, but is only effective against other wrestlers boetsch, forbes holman etc..



Totally innaccurate, His wrestling is only effective against other wrestlers? Hes only fought a handful of fighters and each one he took down. When you wrestle a wrestler it is harder than wrestling someone who doesnt wrestle. Simple as that.
And where did you get that he just has average strength? Hes been stronger than everyone hes ever faced.

Posted by wiggum
with bisping, who is no bjj master and probably has less submission game than franklin, he got his offense nullified after he worked for the takedown....plus franklin has great scramblin abilities and will able to get off his back more often than not when and if the takedown happens....


true but i dont think itll make that big of a difference


Posted by wiggum
finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace



You know Franklin has only beaten 1 top ten fighter in his entire career right?
MikeyG
8/15/08 10:03:25PM

Posted by jt209164


Posted by MikeyG

Why do people assume Matt is dumb because hes deaf?



I dont see anyone but you bringing the fact that he's deaf into the conversation, it doesnt even belong here. It's no merit to his fighting abilities.




its needed for a response like that, lol
handstrong
8/16/08 4:46:59PM
I think the biggest factor in this fight is if Franklin isn't afraid of being taken down and lets his hand go and mixes it up. Hamill definately has some power in his hands, but Franklin still needs to keep it standing up. I think the edge goes to Franklin in the stand up, but if and when it gets to the ground he will have some problems with Hamills strength, size and wrestling ability. I think there's a lot of upset potential for Franklin. But I think Franklin will catch him shooting in and ground n pound him out... probably in the 2nd round.
Aaronno9
8/16/08 11:37:44PM

Posted by wiggum
finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace



You know Franklin has only beaten 1 top ten fighter in his entire career right?



Im sure people where making arguments that tanner and lousiou (sp) where top ten at the time he beat them. Okamis top ten no doubt, and some people even had jason mcdonald in the top ten when rich stomped him (not that i agree with that)
jiujitsufreak74
8/17/08 1:06:51PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by wiggum
finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace



You know Franklin has only beaten 1 top ten fighter in his entire career right?



dude...he beat Travis Fulton...c'mon
hippysmacker
8/17/08 1:42:05PM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by wiggum
finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace



You know Franklin has only beaten 1 top ten fighter in his entire career right?




Im sure people where making arguments that tanner and lousiou (sp) where top ten at the time he beat them. Okamis top ten no doubt, and some people even had jason mcdonald in the top ten when rich stomped him (not that i agree with that)

Actually by the most recognizable rankings of the time( mma weeklys) , Tanner was # 2, ans Loiseau was 5 or 6 ( cant remember exactly which one just the argument I heard about it) , and Okami definitely was in the top 10 everywhere I looked .I also believe Franklins beating of him , in such a one sided fashion, is what made Loiseau tentative now . I think the same thing happened to Page when Chute box took it to him repeatedly, and he needed to change almost everything about his whole life to regroup and come back stronger. Maybe the same will help David, who knows? Now rankings are subjective of course, and people will have their own, but overall it's a falsehood for anyone to suggest that the general MMA media didn't highly rank at least 3 of the fighters he beat at the time he beat them.
Dooletchetoreh
8/17/08 11:08:52PM
These are two classy classy guys. I root for both. I am expect Hamill to win.
pv3Hpv3p
8/18/08 10:19:14AM
Franklin will test Matt's chin... And Hammill will test Rich's TD def... Size really doesn't matter in this case, I think both fighters will be about the same size...

I've seen Rich handle wrestlers TD's pretty well before, maybe not someone as good as Hammill, but he has decent TD's... And I really can't see Rich getting dotted up by that piston jab that Hammill's got like Bisping did... Rich is too smart of a fighter...

What really interests me in this fight is a few things... Not so many years ago, Rich Franklin was givin a fight with Ken Shamrock, I think at the first FN... That fight in conjuncture with coaching on TUF was what propelled him to stardom... Now there's the chance for a young up and comer with an interesting and endearing background to fight the established Rich Franklin and propell himself into stardom the same way...

The only question is how will it be done? Rich TKO'd Shammy, in all honesty, Rich beat the living snot out of Shammy... If Hammill can do the same, then you have a new star... If it's a lackluster LnP dec, then not so much...

Conversley, if Rich can own the standup, which I think he can, and somehow get a wobbled Hammill on his back, I see an easy TKO for Franklin and a pretty decent welcome to the LHW scene
jawbreaker517
8/18/08 10:30:24PM
Franklin is a good fighter, but I think Hamill will impose his size and he will have Franklin on his back most of the time. Rich has somewhat of a questionable chin also. He's been dropped several times in big fights and think hes going to be overwhelmed by Matt. Hamill tko 2nd.
jiujitsufreak74
8/18/08 10:33:43PM

Posted by jawbreaker517

Franklin is a good fighter, but I think Hamill will impose his size and he will have Franklin on his back most of the time. Rich has somewhat of a questionable chin also. He's been dropped several times in big fights and think hes going to be overwhelmed by Matt. Hamill tko 2nd.



yes but look who dropped him....Anderson Silva. other than that Rich has pretty much dominated the competition the UFC has thrown at him, including Okami who is a very powerful and dangerous MW.
BIGKAT
8/20/08 12:42:40PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by jawbreaker517

Franklin is a good fighter, but I think Hamill will impose his size and he will have Franklin on his back most of the time. Rich has somewhat of a questionable chin also. He's been dropped several times in big fights and think hes going to be overwhelmed by Matt. Hamill tko 2nd.



yes but look who dropped him....Anderson Silva. other than that Rich has pretty much dominated the competition the UFC has thrown at him, including Okami who is a very powerful and dangerous MW.



props

exactly!
Mhunt1140
9/1/08 8:14:28PM
See this is a very interesting fight and from what I have seen so far many people have made very valid point in defending their decisions. For me this is a very difficult fight to call because I am a big fan of both fighters. To start things off, most are comparing this fight for the Bisping/Hamil fight in which pretty much everyone agrees Hamil should have won.

I do think that Rich is far beyond Bisping in the cage and I do agree with the idea that Rich is the best fighter that Matt has ever fought, while on the other hand Rich has been in the with the best of the best!

Hamil has come a long way since the beginning but he is still pretty inexperienced. Yes his striking is 1000% better but it is still average at best where Franklin's is top notch. Also on the ground Rich is miles ahead of where Matt is so there is an advantage there.

Yes Matt is an amazing wrestler but Rich does has some pretty good takedown defense and will definitely use his quickness to scramble. I just don't see Matt dominating this fight. I see him being able to take Rich down but then things come to a stalemate or even Rich will take advantage of the ground game. Also I see Rich slowly picking apart Matt on the feet.

My prediction is Rich by UD.
mikevolz
9/1/08 8:45:49PM



You know Franklin has only beaten 1 top ten fighter in his entire career right?



lets not bring ken shamrock into this discussion.
smcdonald
9/1/08 10:06:17PM

Posted by gsquat


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Rich was smaller than okami. Franklin has some decent takedown defense, also rich has better striking and i think that will overcome hamill's wrestling and inexperience in the cage. I think rich will win by UD because i dont see either guy finishing each other.



Much better than the other post. I think Rich and Okami are about the same height (Okami maybe 1" taller) but Rich is definitely the stronger fighter. He has to walk around much heavier than Okami does. Rich does have decent takedown defense, but so did Bisping. I think Hamill will win a UD the way wrestlers usually do in the UFC.



take Rich's gas tank into account, i do not think Hammill has any where near the cardio rich has, Hammill will do well and score a few takedowns in the first and maybe the second but by late second to early 3rd round, franklin will start landing punches and hard punches at that, he will buckle hammill for a late 2nd rnd early 3rd rnd TKO
Fox
9/1/08 10:10:51PM
Im gonna go with Matt i mean all the guy does is plow through the competition they put in front of him, Franklin hasnt look the same ever since Silvas made him look silly maybe this is a fresh start at LHW but i hate to tell him it aint any easier up with the big boys. Hamill UD
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