Why Rich Franklin Will Lose.

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Why Rich Franklin Will Lose.
Next Page »
POLL: Will Hamill's size be a problem for Rich?
Yes 44% (48)
No 56% (60)
gsquat
8/13/08 1:55:07PM
If you look at Rich's wins you'll see that he was always the bigger, stronger fighter. He loses when he isn't (Silva, Machida). Now obviously thats not all. Their skill level was simply higher than his, but Rich is always used to using his size to win. Whether for intimidation (Quarry) or physicality (McDonald/Okami). That didn't work against Silva and Machida. Hamill is bigger stronger, and has plenty of skill. He's going to press forward on Rich and will score takedowns. Matt's only loss was, as we know, controversial... but he still lost. Bispings style ins't too different from Franklin's. A little more spastic, but similar. Hamill got Bisping to the ground several times. He's a different fighter from then and probably would've pounded Bisping out if he was the fighter he is now. Honestly, I think Rich should just stick to the MW division.
tepid55
8/13/08 2:01:09PM
Franklin will win by submission or TKO.
gsquat
8/13/08 2:04:41PM

Posted by tepid55

Franklin will win by submission or TKO.



Responses like this are why you only have 24 props with over 600 posts. Elaborate.
Twenty20Dollars
8/13/08 2:06:11PM
Rich was smaller than okami. Franklin has some decent takedown defense, also rich has better striking and i think that will overcome hamill's wrestling and inexperience in the cage. I think rich will win by UD because i dont see either guy finishing each other.
wiggum
8/13/08 2:08:38PM
franklin has fought at hw coming up, so no, he has not always been the bigger stronger fighter in his wins....franklins striking is more refined and powerful and quicker than bispings and is more boxing orientated which is better for takedown defense than kickboxing orientated like bispings is ...his submissions are better than anybodys than hamill has faced....basically what im getting at is this is the best fighter hamill has ever faced, wether he's coming up in weight or not.....hamill has improved striking, but its still piss-poor...just cuz someone is better at something than they used to be, doesnt mean they are good at it....and also hes strength is average for lhw, his wrestling is top notch, but is only effective against other wrestlers boetsch, forbes holman etc..with bisping, who is no bjj master and probably has less submission game than franklin, he got his offense nullified after he worked for the takedown....plus franklin has great scramblin abilities and will able to get off his back more often than not when and if the takedown happens....finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace
gsquat
8/13/08 2:09:40PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Rich was smaller than okami. Franklin has some decent takedown defense, also rich has better striking and i think that will overcome hamill's wrestling and inexperience in the cage. I think rich will win by UD because i dont see either guy finishing each other.



Much better than the other post. I think Rich and Okami are about the same height (Okami maybe 1" taller) but Rich is definitely the stronger fighter. He has to walk around much heavier than Okami does. Rich does have decent takedown defense, but so did Bisping. I think Hamill will win a UD the way wrestlers usually do in the UFC.
gsquat
8/13/08 2:15:06PM

Posted by wiggum

franklin has fought at hw coming up, so no, he has not always been the bigger stronger fighter in his wins....franklins striking is more refined and powerful and quicker than bispings and is more boxing orientated which is better for takedown defense than kickboxing orientated like bispings is ...his submissions are better than anybodys than hamill has faced....basically what im getting at is this is the best fighter hamill has ever faced, wether he's coming up in weight or not.....hamill has improved striking, but its still piss-poor...just cuz someone is better at something than they used to be, doesnt mean they are good at it....and also hes strength is average for lhw, his wrestling is top notch, but is only effective against other wrestlers boetsch, forbes holman etc..with bisping, who is no bjj master and probably has less submission game than franklin, he got his offense nullified after he worked for the takedown....plus franklin has great scramblin abilities and will able to get off his back more often than not when and if the takedown happens....finally and this is the all important part of the whole matchup: franklin is a champion, hes been in the big shows and been with the big dawgs and has the big dawg experience and will train like a champ and come up with a champions game plan...ooohhh he lost to to two people who just so happen to be 2 of the top 10 lb 4 lb fighters on the planet.....whats hamill done? nothing....hes a young pup in the game and has a long way to go....2nd tko win for ace



But even at lhw Rich was the bigger stronger fighter. Definitely bigger than Shamrock. I'm not denying his skill. He's one of the best. But Hamill is damn good. Franklin isn't a jujitsu master either. He's got submissions yes, but they are not his strong suit. As a wrestler, Hamill trains to not get subbed. I just feel like I'm recognizing something that few others are.
nickcuc547
8/13/08 2:16:46PM
so what's the question, will franklin lose? or will hammil's size give franklin problems? i say no he won't lose, but he will have a little trouble dealing with hammil's size. rich is more skilled on the feet and on the ground so he will win the fight, but hammil can take him down.
gsquat
8/13/08 2:24:00PM

Posted by nickcuc547

so what's the question, will franklin lose? or will hammil's size give franklin problems? i say no he won't lose, but he will have a little trouble dealing with hammil's size. rich is more skilled on the feet and on the ground so he will win the fight, but hammil can take him down.



Both are legitimate questions. I think it'll go a lot like the Bisping fight, but the judges will see if favor of Hamill. Really, aside from the Bisping fiasco, Hamill has never lost a fight. I'm tellin' ya, TUF fighters are going to be the elites in the UFC.
seanfu
8/13/08 3:02:28PM
Rich will lose. He can't finish Hamill in any way and Hamill will use a relentless barrage of takedowns and clinches untill he finally gets it. Rich has problems inside the clinch if the other person is technical and as strong.

If you look at Rich's fights he grabs a fence clinch and grinds until he wins. His outside skills aren't world class and his unorthodox style gives him what he needs.

Hamill is a total beast physically and technically at clinching and takedowns. He is relentless, rocked or otherwise, and hits just as hard as Franklin.

Fanklins chances at a 3 round fight are slim, but if Hamill's cut is super hard (which is very possible) he'll be dead by round 3 and Rich has his chance to come back and knock Hamill out.

Unless there is some crazy flash KO I beleive (and you can quote this) Rich will be two rounds down in a wrestling war. I can almost guarrentee it. The major factor has to do with Hamill's cut and not Franklin at all.
HENDO915
8/13/08 3:22:21PM
Hamill will not get knocked out
Chuteboxer
8/13/08 3:50:22PM
"his wrestling is top notch, but is only effective against other wrestlers boetsch, forbes holman"

If you're implying that he can't take down anyone besides wrestlers, then you need to really step back and rethink what you just wrote there.

Wrestlers are better at takedowns than any normal bjj practicioner...Hamill won't have difficulty taking Rich down unless rich develops a good takedown defense....having worked on his ground game really means nothing. Someone once tole me it's harder to put a sub on someone than it is to escape from one.

And furthermore, Hamill's ground and pound is good. Rich might cling to him a little bit, but otherwise I don't think Hamill's gonna get halted like you think he is.

Now do I think Hamill will win? No. I think Rich will rock him with punches, and Hamill will then be too hurt to try and take him down, and Rich will TKO him. But you know what? Hamill has a better chance than you're giving him.
mkiv9secsupra
8/13/08 3:58:22PM
I dont know if anyone noticed but Hammill doesnt have too much of a gas tank. Hammill doesnt have quality striking and he doesnt have a great submission game. Rich is supposedly on the same level as brown belt, in skill, in BJJ so theres not much chance for hammill on the ground and on the feet Hammill is going to get dominated. So unless Hammill pulls a miracle slam KO on Franklin in the first round hes going to outclassed and probably finished in this fight.
gsquat
8/13/08 4:05:35PM

Posted by Chuteboxer

"his wrestling is top notch, but is only effective against other wrestlers boetsch, forbes holman"

If you're implying that he can't take down anyone besides wrestlers, then you need to really step back and rethink what you just wrote there.

Wrestlers are better at takedowns than any normal bjj practicioner...Hamill won't have difficulty taking Rich down unless rich develops a good takedown defense....having worked on his ground game really means nothing. Someone once tole me it's harder to put a sub on someone than it is to escape from one.

And furthermore, Hamill's ground and pound is good. Rich might cling to him a little bit, but otherwise I don't think Hamill's gonna get halted like you think he is.

Now do I think Hamill will win? No. I think Rich will rock him with punches, and Hamill will then be too hurt to try and take him down, and Rich will TKO him. But you know what? Hamill has a better chance than you're giving him.



Not really sure who this was directed to but I agree, in most part. Hamill will be able to bet Rich to the ground many times. I do think Rich will land some shots in what little standup there may be, but nothing that Matt can't shake off. I agree with a previous statment made that weight cut and endurance may be a problem for Hamill.
holt8081
8/13/08 4:11:21PM
I dont know it will be a tuff choice but I think Franklins Exp. may come in to play here, I think his striking is better but Hammill has better wrestling, franklin has good take down def. but hammill's very strong so its a chess match..........I am going with Franklin by UD ( for know anyway).
mkiv9secsupra
8/13/08 4:12:14PM
So youre basing your whole opinion on this fight based on Hammill vs Bisping?
Bisping doesnt even compare to franklin at this point in his career. Everything Bisping does good Franklin does better. Also Lutter is much bigger than Franklin.
SpiderSilva
8/13/08 4:13:53PM
I think Hamill thinks his stand up is better than what it is and this will be his down fall sure he is a wrestler but we all know he likes to stand and Rich is on a whole nother level when it comes to standing on the ground Rich is really not given any credit for but prves doughter wrong well unless your name is Travis Lutter who thinks if I only had one more chance well I see Frnklin pounding on Hamill then Hamill taking it down but not doing much I say Franklin wins a Split
holt8081
8/13/08 4:16:22PM

Posted by gsquat


Posted by tepid55

Franklin will win by submission or TKO.



Responses like this are why you only have 24 props with over 600 posts. Elaborate.

Franklin by submission is a very Bold thing to say
mkiv9secsupra
8/13/08 4:37:21PM

Posted by holt8081


Posted by gsquat


Posted by tepid55

Franklin will win by submission or TKO.



Responses like this are why you only have 24 props with over 600 posts. Elaborate.

Franklin by submission is a very Bold thing to say



Hammill - A guy who we have seen very very little sub defense
Franklin - A guy who is basically a BJJ Brown Belt training under Gurgel and Matt "the Wizard" Hume.....

I think its a very safe to assume Hammill is going to get outclassed on the ground.
gsquat
8/13/08 4:41:20PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

So youre basing your whole opinion on this fight based on Hammill vs Bisping?
Bisping doesnt even compare to franklin at this point in his career. Everything Bisping does good Franklin does better. Also Lutter is much bigger than Franklin.


If this is what you think you obviously didn't read my entire post. And no, Lutter is not bigger or stronger than Franklin. Fatter, maybe. I never said Bisping compares to Franklin, however he does. In accomplishments no, but in skill yes. I base my opinon on these things:

- Franklin isn't the bigger stronger fighter in this matchup, and that has proved to be a problem for him.
- Hamill is going to take this fight to the ground, and thats where Franklin will have to win. We won't submit Matt. Not that he doesn't have jj, Hamill's defense is too good for Rich's jj.
- I saw glimpses of what will be in the Bisping/Hamill fight.



holt8081
8/13/08 4:43:14PM
I dont think they will be spending a lot of time on the ground
Wolfenstein
8/13/08 4:58:49PM
I don't think it's really a proven fact that Rich has trouble with guys equal or larger to his size. I mean Rich has only lost three times, and twice it was to Anderson Silva.

Matt hasn't really been taking guys down lately. He's been trying to display his improved standup.

Franklin's takedown defense is awesome, but I could see Hammil getting a few takedowns. Rich is relentless in the scramble though, and I just don't see how Hammil can keep him on the mat.

People have forgotten how great a fighter Franklin is. I think Matt should be a heavy underdog. He only has five fights under his belt, and he lost to Bisping...granted controversially. I'm just saying Ace is a level above Bisping at the moment and he posed trouble for Hamill, so this is a big step up for him.
mkiv9secsupra
8/13/08 5:04:54PM

Posted by gsquat
- Franklin isn't the bigger stronger fighter in this matchup, and that has proved to be a problem for him.



against who? Machida is actually not bigger than Franklin


Posted by gsquat
- Hamill is going to take this fight to the ground, and thats where Franklin will have to win. We won't submit Matt. Not that he doesn't have jj, Hamill's defense is too good for Rich's jj.



how do you know how good Hammill's sub defense is? we havent seen it yet!Franklin has great JJ and has proven that.


Posted by gsquat
- I saw glimpses of what will be in the Bisping/Hamill fight.



again, EVERYTHING Bisping does good Franklin does a whole lot better so a comparison there doesnt tell much.

Rich outclasses Hammill everywhere except wrestling.
postman
8/13/08 5:06:40PM

Posted by gsquat


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Rich was smaller than okami. Franklin has some decent takedown defense, also rich has better striking and i think that will overcome hamill's wrestling and inexperience in the cage. I think rich will win by UD because i dont see either guy finishing each other.



Much better than the other post. I think Rich and Okami are about the same height (Okami maybe 1" taller) but Rich is definitely the stronger fighter. He has to walk around much heavier than Okami does. Rich does have decent takedown defense, but so did Bisping. I think Hamill will win a UD the way wrestlers usually do in the UFC.



I think Okami was alot bigger and stronger then Rich if my minde serves me
right.
Bonus-Jonas
8/13/08 5:42:02PM
I have a TKO/KO in the 3rd. I see Hamil getting out worked and tiring himself from all the take down attempts. I think Hamil is going to have a tough time taking down Franklin. Franklin will wear Hamil down and finish him in the 3rd.
MikeyG
8/13/08 5:46:53PM
Why do people assume Matt is dumb because hes deaf? deaf people are not retarded just because they cant hear themself talk, you people really think hes gonna try and stand with rich? and if he does its only to set up a takedown.

Matt UD
gsquat
8/13/08 5:57:02PM

Posted by MikeyG

Why do people assume Matt is dumb because hes deaf? deaf people are not retarded just because they cant hear themself talk, you people really think hes gonna try and stand with rich? and if he does its only to set up a takedown.

Matt UD



Uh, I don't think anyone said or even thinks he's dumb. I agree though that Hamill should take this fight to the ground. If he does he'll win it for sure. If rich manages to keep it standing he'll win.
casey64
8/13/08 5:58:22PM

Posted by gsquat


Posted by tepid55

Franklin will win by submission or TKO.



Responses like this are why you only have 24 props with over 600 posts. Elaborate.




Don't worry about it tepid look at mine. 55 props with over 1400 posts.
casey64
8/13/08 5:59:50PM
To the subject, I see this fight going either way, but I have Franklin by tko or sub.
Franklinfan47
8/13/08 6:42:59PM
Hamill's size and wrestling will give rich problems for sure. That said, Franklin's striking is leaps and bounds ahead of Hamill's so the longer he can keep this fight standing the better. But I agree with your point that Hamill is stronger than Franklin is accustomed too which could pose problems.
Pages: [1] 2 3
Related Topics