Responses from a boxing forum

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dstlvb
3/11/07 1:43:08PM
I got into a boxing forum where someone asked this question

ok. so i was just having this debate about who would win in a fight. Mike tyson in his prime or the top person in UFC.
If they went head to head who would come out with the W.
i want some feedback here so hopefully i get it..thanks

Here are some responses. Kinda long, but worth the read IMO

when you are talking about Mike Tyson or anyone of his calibre things become different from Boxing vs MMA. Boxer's have been the better natural fighters. Prime Mike Tyson was tougher, hit harder, faster reflexes and all the natural fighting characteristics he has over UFC fighters but he simply has not trained in MMA. Mike Tyson the Boxer vs top MMA fighters is hard to call but If Mike Tyson trained in MMA he would defeat the top MMA fighters, and if Tyson trained in MMA as well as his boxing I think he would beat Mike Tyson the boxer if you get what I mean.



Your right! It depends on the rules.

Personally, I really don't care for the MMA stuff they call fighting: kicking, kneeing, elbowing, and wrestling.

For my money, I'll always going to go with the tough ... two fisted street fighter.


In MMA ring: Boxer, boxer hit harder than an MMA person is used to being hit by. Also boxers seem to be very strong in most ways.

In boxing ring: Boxer for all of the above reasons.

In a street fight: Depends who it is. Marciano, Tyson, Holmes (grew up street fighting and beat the crap out of Berbick in one), Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Shavers, Spinks (Michael), Hagler, Leonard, Duran, Norton, Arguello, Basilio, Robinson, Pep, Saddler, Louis, Schmelling, Ali, LaMotta, and many more prime vs prime could beat in my opinion any MMA fighter. (this guy was the Moderator)


Of course it has problems. Which is why I like to watch the fights from the mid 80's back. MMA does what you learned not to do in a fight, even on the streets. They kick you on the ground, choke you on the ground, do what ever is just wrong all around. Also boxers hit way over the average PSI. The average man hits at 80-100 PSI, George Foreman hit at 1600 PSI. The Klit brothers hit at 1100PSI, Marciano was tested and they figured out that his punch could spot lift 1000lbs 12 inches off of the ground. MMA fighters mainly graple then knee and stuff.


This topic kind of makes me smile.

If martial artists are tougher than boxers its yet to be proved to me.

I'd been a boxer when I was kid. I grew up in the sport and took up boxing at a boys club in 1960 at age nine, and boxed throughout my teens and early twenties.

I seldom ever got into any fights outside the ring, but on some occasions I did, in self defence. Whenever I had been in situations such as that and had no other choice but to defend myself truthfully I can say I'd never lost one of those kind of fights and it didn't matter how big or strong they were or if they had taken some form of martial arts. I never lose one of those kind of fights. And as for the fights had in the ring. I only lose four fights of the many I had in the fourteen years I was there as a boxer.

In fact, the easist fights I ever had was the fights I had that were outside the ring in situations in which I had to defend myself. And there had been some situations in which I had to defend myself not against only one guy, but even to have to fight two or even there guys at the same time, and I never lost one of those fights I had outside the ring in which I was forced to have to defend myself.

In my opinion martial arts is over rated as form of self defense for reasons of all the hype that has been used in promoting and marketing martial arts. However, I would say that knowing something about how to fight and how defend yourself is better than knowing nothing at all.

Hey, give me a tough ... two-fisted kid that's got some golden gloves experience that knows how to fight, and I'll take on the house. (smiling)

Well it depends on the boxer. Ali for one would not do very well street fight or MMA. But guys like Dempey, Sullivan, Tunney, Marciano, Tyson, Frazier, Holmes, and Foreman that all grew up poor and getting into tons of street fights, I bet they could beat an MMA guy



Again all this talk about boxer vs martial artists makes me smile.

It use to be they talked about boxer vs wrestler, now now it boxer vs martial artist.

Interestingly, I never heard any talk about wrestler vs martial wrestler ever at any time.

Could it be that its because the boxer has always been superior, and that boxing is a more respected sport, and a more popular sport, or at least use to be most popular sport at one time in popularity it was second to only baseball.

I had mentioned that my father was a fighter, and that I grew up in boxing and had first took up boxing in 1960 at age nine in the gym, and I did quite well as boxer and continued to box into my early twenties.

I have one brother and two step brothers they all took up boxing too.

Only, I was the only one that could make it as a fighter for reasons that I had heart for it, and could punch and could take a punch and I usually near always won my fights near every fight I ever had through out my amateur boxing career I won, and won more than half the fights I had by knocking out my opponents, or by technical knockouts.

I was good at it, but my brothers were not. They lost their first fights and they all quit boxing.

After they quit boxing most of my brothers turned to other forms of fighting, they all turned to different and various forms of martial arts.

Only I continued to box and was tough enough for it. Maybe it was genetic, and I was more tough like my father, who had been a fighter.

You can take some kids and sign them up to take up at the gym for boxing, and they can all train the same ways, yet they won't all make good fighters despite the fact they may all have the same coaching and training.

I think its genetic, in being that its just that by nature some people are just tougher than others.

This is why not all who take up boxing are good boxers I think. I'm convinced its genetic.

Today, though I and my brothers are now all older, and all my brothers who did tturn to some form of martial arts and came to hold black belts in various forms of martial arts, and two of my brothers are trainers today and have martial arts schools and are instructors and teach martial arts.

But interestingly, not a one of them could make it as boxer, not one of them could.

They just wasn't tough enough for it.

I think the reason is genetic. I took after my father and they took more after my mother I think.

I think it was genetic.

Interestingly, when I was a kid boxing, and at the time my brothers were all taking martial arts there had been some occasions when we were kids and in our teens when one of my brothers would for whatever would get jumped on by somebody bigger than they were and sometimes were older.

We grew up in a tough neiborhood as kids.

There were times when one of my brothers would come up all beat me and bloody, in which it often had not been a fair fight when they usually happened.

And often when that happened in which it had not been a fair fight!

I usually went out and would take it up with the guy and in most cases they were the big bully types, and I the boxer never lost of those fights either.

Martial arts in my view, has long since been over rated.

If martial artists are tougher than boxers it has yet to be proven to me.

Give me a tough ... two-fisted kid that's has some golden gloves experience, and I'll take on the house. (smiling


I wont bother ro give you my arguments in the thread, as most will be similiar to what you are thinking


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poll77
3/11/07 2:55:31PM
everyone thinks that what they do is best. this dude is a boxer so he thinks that a boxer would be an mma guy in a fight. i think the guy is wrong, usually boxers get their asses handed to them in the ring by mma guys but he thinks it is crap because of all the ground rules. i think he is mistaken though because even if there were no rules in a street fight the same thing would happen with the fight going to the ground. he acts like there is supposed to be honor or something when you are in a street fight and i just dont get it. anyone i know will do whatever the hell it takes to win in a street fight. and who is to say someone is dirty? fair street fights are damn near nonexisent IMO. i think the dude is just bitter because boxers that try mma usually get their asses kicked.
CincySaint
3/11/07 3:15:55PM
That guy's view is soooo skewed that "it makes me smile"....what the hell is this guys malfunction. I agree that he naturally leans towards boxing becauseit is what he knows, but there are guys in MMA who have comprable skills to Pro Boxers. I'm not saying anyone's power can match Tyson's in his prime, because it cant. But the way that guy reasons just makes no sense. He asks why no one ever compares MMA to Wrestling?....Um....wrestling is one of the major parts of MMA and always has been. Did I see that he said Boxers were tougher than MMA fighters, now that shit is funny. The reason that i am suprised by that post, or the article in the post, is that I come from a boxing background. That is all of combat sport that i knew before the UFC. I have watched Olympic medalist train day in and day out for years and i dont think one of them would sya they are tougher than an mma person because theya re boxers. It is true that I think Tyson would have knocked 96% MMA fighters in his prime, but he klnocked out 96% of Boxers then also, so that doesnt say much. I could easily see Dan Severn pinning him up agains tthe cage, taking him down, and pounding out a victory....Tyson hit hard, but he didnt land 100% of his punches, so i dont know...I could see Cro-Cop landing a Left Head Kick upside Tyson's jaw....but whoknow.....good post i needed to get fired up a little this morning...oh i guess it's afternoon....lol
Stickan
3/11/07 4:36:39PM
They're just wrong. It's as easy as that.

Please link them up to Lauzon - Pulver, McFedries - Sakara and Sudo - Butterbean.

And I bet my house on that Koscheck or Hughes is stronger than the strongest 170 boxer. (to the guy who posted something about boxers strength).


btw. Even though you don't think of it that much, there have been A LOT of BJJ guys who've been the same, claiming that they can beat all MMAers with just their BJJ. The Gracie clan is a great example of this.

It's almost a cliché and everybody knows this but you have to be well-rounded to make it in this sport.
AchillesHeel
3/11/07 5:18:15PM
These arguments crop up from time to time, and the answer is always the same: It depends. It depends on the conditions, the situation, the rules (if there are any), the equipment or weapons being used, etc.

If you want to talk individuals regardless of circumstance, Mike Tyson, Chuck Liddell, and Fedor Emelianenko aren't half as dangerous as Simo Häyä was. People who messed with that dude literally didn't know what hit them.

It depends, it depends, it depends...

AchillesHeel
3/11/07 5:26:31PM

Posted by dstlvb

[...]If Mike Tyson trained in MMA he would defeat the top MMA fighters


I'm not so sure about this. I don't think an athlete who's talented in one sport would just as talented in other sports, even similar sports. I'm not saying Tyson wouldn't have been good in MMA, only that his success in boxing is not evidence of some hidden talent for, say, grappling.
Jeffanori-Gomi
3/11/07 5:30:35PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by dstlvb

[...]If Mike Tyson trained in MMA he would defeat the top MMA fighters


I'm not so sure about this. I don't think an athlete who's talented in one sport would just as talented in other sports, even similar sports. I'm not saying Tyson wouldn't have been good in MMA, only that his success in boxing is not evidence of some hidden talent for, say, grappling.



Its like saying the best rugby player in the world, would be the most dominant football player in the world. Elements of tackling, running are in both sports but to say both are the same would be ficticious
AchillesHeel
3/11/07 5:50:20PM

Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi

Its like saying the best rugby player in the world, would be the most dominant football player in the world. Elements of tackling, running are in both sports but to say both are the same would be ficticious


Exactly.

Not long ago, I was telling a friend that it would be fun to see the New England Patriots and the New Zealand All-Blacks* play against other, in each other's sports. I expect that the All-Blacks would murder the Patriots in rugby and the Pats would crush the All-Blacks in football, but it'd be fun to see.

And I'd say that rugby and (American) football are more similar than boxing and MMA are.





*I admit, the only reason I like the All-Blacks over any other rugby team is The Hakka.
wkm311
3/11/07 11:12:44PM

Posted by poll77

everyone thinks that what they do is best. this dude is a boxer so he thinks that a boxer would be an mma guy in a fight. i think the guy is wrong, usually boxers get their asses handed to them in the ring by mma guys but he thinks it is crap because of all the ground rules. i think he is mistaken though because even if there were no rules in a street fight the same thing would happen with the fight going to the ground. he acts like there is supposed to be honor or something when you are in a street fight and i just dont get it. anyone i know will do whatever the hell it takes to win in a street fight. and who is to say someone is dirty? fair street fights are damn near nonexisent IMO. i think the dude is just bitter because boxers that try mma usually get their asses kicked.



I agree, every street fight Ive been in with the exception of 1 ended up on the ground. In that enviroment, the boxer is defenceless. I also agree that in a street fight, most people (me included), do whatever it takes to win, if that means kicking someone or taking them down and pounding them, then so be it. These are all unfamiliar things to a someone who boxes. All and all, I think the only time a boxer would beat a MMA practitioner would be in a ring under boxing rules.
jdubs
3/12/07 12:39:13AM
sorry, i dont have the attention span to read all that
dstlvb
3/12/07 5:41:50PM
The replies were from like 4 different guys. I got into to the forum because there reasoning was so off the wall. One guy talked like he was an expert and was saying boxers conditioing was better beacuase they train to go twelve rounds. MMA guys only go 3 4 min rounds. I love when poeple act like they kow and dont even know the simplest of the rules
pv3Hpv3p
3/16/07 5:36:09PM
this is pretty silly... What sort of a comparison is a trained boxer fighting some dude off the streets... MMAists train incesantly, and this is just an example of people arguing about things they don't understand...

I'd like to venture a guess that if that guy would have run into say Bas back in the 80's or whenever they were both in shape and picked a fight... Even though he was primarily still a kickboxer then... he would be singing a different tune...

Which got me thinking... How do you think that top notch boxers would do against the cream of the K1 crop (K1 rules)...
mkiv9secsupra
3/18/07 2:13:37AM
boxers hit harder than mma practicioners? obviously never hit by CC, Liddell, Fedor, Sapp, GSP,...the list goes on and on....boxing is outdated and flawed
GMANN
3/18/07 1:14:41PM
Hey Guys. Really it all comes down to the rules and the conditions of the fight. An MMA guy in a boxing match usually will get their ass handed to them and vice versa.

As for boxers beating MMA fighters in an MMA match and boxers being the tougher of the fighters i would tell them to look at ART Jimmerson. He was a boxer who took on royce gracie in UFC 1 and submitted to him while not even being in a submission hold....Royce was just in full mount with his bodyweight on him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Jimmerson

http://www.discussufc.com/showthread.php?t=183

The second one is a video of the fight.

Also, I am not saying that boxers will get beat by MMA guys all the time...I am just saying that you cant just assume certain things because of previous records. When it comes down to it, the fighter and the conditions of the fight is what is going to determine the outcome of the match...USUALLY.
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