Respected Styles

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codyq
2/8/10 9:09:31PM
Who is the strongest in what martial art:

We will start with the wrestlers.

1. King MO
2. GSP
3. Chael Sonnen
4. Brock Lesnar
5. Cain Velasquez
6. Jon Fitch
7. Bobby Lashley
8. Tyron Woodley
9. Phil Davis
10. KOS
11. Jake Shields
12. Jon Jones

BJJ fighters

1. Jacare
2. NOG
3. Roger Gracie
4. Rolles Gracie
5. Fedor ( I KNOW HES NOT A BJJ FIGHTER but he is one of the best 6. Submission Grapplers in the game)
7. Shinya Aoki
8. BJ penn
9. Fabricio Werdum
10. Theiles Leites
11. Demian Maia
12. Paulo Fihlo


Boxers:

1. Vitor Belfort
2. Gegard Mousasi
3. BJ penn
4. Joachim Hansen
5. Eddie Alvarez
6. KJ Noons
7. Fedor Emelianenko
8. Aleksander Emelianenko
9. Junior Dos Santos
10. Andre Arlovski
11. Little NOG
12. Robbie Lawler

Karate/Muay Thai

1. Lyot Machida
2. Shoun Rua
3. Anderson Silva
4. Melvin Manhoef
5. Ed ratcliff
6. Allistair Overeem
7. Jon Jones
8. Shane Del rosario
9. Rafael Cavalcante
10. Mark Hunt
11. Cung Le
12. Wanderlei Silva

Sambo/Judo

1. Fedor
2. Karo P.
3. Sokodjou
4. Yoshihiro Akiyama
5. Blagoi Ivanov
6. Alexey Oleinek
7. Hayato Sakuri
8. Paulo Fihlo
9. Satoshi Ishii
10. Andre Arlovski

All around:

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. BJ Penn
3. GSP
4. Gegard Mousasi
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Anderson Silva
7. Jon Jones
8. Little NOG
9. King MO
10. Frank Mir
11. Shane Carwin
12. Paulo Thiago


grappler0000
2/8/10 9:29:40PM
Interesting thread. Are you referring to strength in a pure art or as it applies to MMA?
sbulldavid
2/8/10 11:07:59PM
I'm assuming you mean in an MMA context.

Wrestling-GSP is hands down

BJJ-I have to say that Big Nog is the best because he's been able to use it to come back from defeat so often.

Boxing-Anderson Silva is the best boxer in MMA

Karate/MT-I got Shogun as the best because he also has great knees to go with lethal kicks.

Sambo/Judo-I've seen Fedor do some of the most amazing throws and transitions,and all I can say is wow!

All-Around-You got to go with Fedor, he doesn't box but he rocks people. He controls where the fight is, and he submits people from the top or bottom.

codyq
2/8/10 11:50:24PM

Interesting thread. Are you referring to strength in a pure art or as it applies to MMA?


Half n Half I would say. Cause I know Maia is a pretty decorated BJJ fighter, but jacare and the list above have some good BJJ that transitioned well over into MMA. I know aoki was an alright BJJ fighter but when it comes to MMA, it's a different ball game. Like look how paulo thiago got his sub of the night on swick - Strait counter to D'arce choke. I think the key also to a great fighter in MMA if you dont have a ground game, is a fighter like Cro-Cop, one of the best sprawls in the game, even miller against Maia was not phased by Demians JJ.

Also to the guy that was talkin fedor and his sambo. Yeah fedor is by far far the best. Like when he got slammed on his head by Randleman, he has the most amazing movement with his body, he was calm the whole time he got slammed and then caught randleman. He is the best at GnP; when a fighter has pulled full gaurd, it doesnt matter, the guy is just amazing. He could retire now and he'd be the best all time.

TimW001
2/9/10 12:08:02AM
Great thread idea.

GSP
Why was Jake Sheilds listed?

BJJ fighters

Jacare


Boxers:

BJ penn

Karate/Muay Thai

Shoun Rua
Allistair Overeem


Sambo/Judo

Fedor


All around:

Fedor Emelianenko
BJ Penn
jae_1833
2/9/10 12:24:50AM
After the last UFC I would definately have placed every last one of these men above Rolles Gracie....who IMO will be the biggest let down of 2010!
7. Shinya Aoki
8. BJ penn
9. Fabricio Werdum
10. Theiles Leites
11. Demian Maia
12. Paulo Fihlo
Edit: Oh and not having Hendo listed on the wrestler's list is a crime! (Just busting your chops!)
codyq
2/9/10 1:11:09AM

Oh and not having Hendo listed on the wrestler's list is a crime! (Just busting your chops!)


I just made this list at the top of my head. Dan definitely belongs to this list for sure, as does rampage if i didn't add him either.
NatedawgThaM
2/9/10 1:13:46AM
IMO of course...

Wrestlers
Best pure wrestlers: King Mo, Jake Rosholt, Josh Koschek
Best wrestlers adapted in MMA: GSP, Lesnar, Cain/Fitch tie

BJJ fighters
Best Pure BJJ: Roger Gracie(beat Jacare), Jacare, Maia
Best BJJ adapted to MMA: Aoki, Big Nog, Maia(more sucessful then Jacare)

Boxers
Best Pure Boxers: BJ, Chris Lytle, Andre Arlovski
Best Boxers adapted to MMA: BJ, Lil Nog, Vitor
-I also would like to note that Paulo Thiago has been impressing the hell out of me with his boxing. His counterpunching is absolutely beastly. He knocked Kos& Swick's head off. Watch him too take over this list possibly.

-Not to be rude but WTH? Why are these 2? combined, nothing alike except in both you can kick. And as far as I know Machida is the only karate guy in MMA or atleast good one.
Muay Thai/Kickboxing
Best Muay Thai/Kickboxers in MMA: Shogun, Anderson, Cro Cop

Sambo/Judo
Best Sambo in MMA: Fedor & Arlovski hands down.
Best Judo in MMA: Karo, Jacare, Sexyama

All Around Definitely think are the top 3-4 P4P because obviously you have to be well rounded to be the best minus Anderson because I don't think his wrestling is even average.

Best All around fighters: GSP, BJ Penn, Fedor

Nice thread & idea though. Just thought some things shouldn't have combined though.
codyq
2/9/10 1:42:45AM
Can anyone tell me how to go to my later posts and not just the last ten that pop up in my profile, how can I access all of my posts?
bjj1605
2/9/10 1:56:12AM
Wrestling- Why even put anyone other than GSP on the list?

BJJ- Got to be Demian Maia.

Boxing- Its a toss up between BJ Penn and Anderson Silva.

Muay Thai or Karate (I'd just say kickbboxing) Got to be either Machida or Shogun, maybe Anderson.

Sambo/Judo- Fedor has as much of a lock on this as GSP does on wrestling.

All Around- I'd say its pretty hard to decide between Anderson Silva and Fedor. I don't think we'll be able to say until one or the other loses.
jiujitsufreak74
2/9/10 12:01:17PM
imo, the best pure JJ guy in MMA right now is Xande, who has defeated Roger Gracie multiple times and won his division in ADCC and lost in the finals of the OW due to injury. he is on top right now, and he is making his way to MMA with 2 fights under his belt. when Roger defeated Jacare, you have to realize just how much weight Jacare was giving up.

now here are my top guys in terms of how their skills translate into MMA (which is most important imo)

Wrestling: GSP...no one is even close to him in regard to MMA adapted wrestling

BJJ: Jacare then Aoki as a close second. Jacare hasn't lost a step with his JJ in MMA, and Aoki is like GSP in regards to his BJJ being phenomenal in MMA but not so much in the pure form.

I don't consider boxing when thinking about MMA striking, i look at overall kickboxing/Muay Thai ability since even if you choose to only use your hands you are still in a kickboxing/Muay Thai type fight in MMA.

so kickboxing/Muay Thai: Anderson is just making people look stupid. as much as i want him to lose the title you have to respect his immense striking ability. Shogun is amazing, but i have to give the nod to the fighter who makes everyone look like they are fighting in the matrix

Sambo/Judo: Obviously Fedor, althogh Karo has adapted his Judo very well to MMA, but his mental problems hold him back.

All Around: i'd say BJ Penn over Fedor. i say this because BJ is more of a threat on the feet than Fedor is, and they are pretty equally as well versed in terms of MMA grappling.



RhythmAndStyle
2/9/10 1:37:51PM
i'm only gonna do the top 5 or so
Wrestling
1. GSP
2. Cain Velasquez
3. Jon Fitch
4. Chael Sonnen
5. King Mo
yes i believe Cain and King Mo have better wrestling than Brock..
B.J.J.
1. Jacare Souza
2. Maia
3. Big Nog
4. Shinya Aoki
5. B.J. Penn
i know the gracies are known..but they haven't proved themselves in mma matches yet..rolles just got tko'd..so i would have put them so high..
Boxer
1. Fedor
2. Gegard Mousasi
3. Pitbull Arlovski (if it wasn't for that glass chin)
4. Vitor Belfort
5. JDS
all of these guy have ko'd opponents,they got speed and technique..and are very calm under pressure
Karate/Muay Thai
1. Anderson Silva (most ko's via knees,elbows and has the most deadliest clinch)
2. Shogun Rua
3. Lyoto Machida
4. Melvin Manhoef
5. Alistair Overeem
Sambo/Judo
1. Fedor
2. Yoshihiro Akiyama
3. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
4. Soko
5. Karo Parisyan
Overall Fighter
this section is gonna be random since people are gonna put in their favorite fighters..so i won't fill this section out...
State_Champ
2/9/10 2:10:10PM

Posted by RhythmAndStyle

i'm only gonna do the top 5 or so
Wrestling
1. GSP
2. Cain Velasquez
3. Jon Fitch
4. Chael Sonnen
5. King Mo
yes i believe Cain and King Mo have better wrestling than Brock..
B.J.J.
1. Jacare Souza
2. Maia
3. Big Nog
4. Shinya Aoki
5. B.J. Penn
i know the gracies are known..but they haven't proved themselves in mma matches yet..rolles just got tko'd..so i would have put them so high..
Boxer
1. Fedor
2. Gegard Mousasi
3. Pitbull Arlovski (if it wasn't for that glass chin)
4. Vitor Belfort
5. JDS
all of these guy have ko'd opponents,they got speed and technique..and are very calm under pressure
Karate/Muay Thai
1. Anderson Silva (most ko's via knees,elbows and has the most deadliest clinch)
2. Shogun Rua
3. Lyoto Machida
4. Melvin Manhoef
5. Alistair Overeem
Sambo/Judo
1. Fedor
2. Yoshihiro Akiyama
3. Yoshiyuki Yoshida
4. Soko
5. Karo Parisyan
Overall Fighter
this section is gonna be random since people are gonna put in their favorite fighters..so i won't fill this section out...



I agree with most of these...
Although I would say Fedor or BJ or Anderson Silva seem to be best all around (recently). Anyways, none of those guys is my favorite fighter.
hate4thestate
2/9/10 4:24:54PM
nick diaz needs to be on the boxing. not sure if he still does but he trained with andre ward. nick diazs hands are ridiculous. i think you could throw a nod in there for bjj too.

jake shields has excellent wrestling and bjj. and i think you can take karo off the list for anything. not even ssure if hes ever gonna fight again. and you dont have yoshida for judo? wtf really? and i think shinya aoki needs to be at the top of the list for bjj. he has done a choke he invented in an mma match. inverted gogoplata... top of the list. i see too many more flaws to try to tell whats going on.

btw nice to see t wood on there.
codyq
2/9/10 5:27:20PM

Nick Diaz is a great boxer, just doesnt have the power.

T-wood is the **** by the way, guys gonna be challenging diaz for the belt REAL SOON after Hieron gets smashed and T-wood gets another solid victory.
TimW001
2/9/10 8:26:54PM

Posted by codyq


Nick Diaz is a great boxer, just doesnt have the power.



What?

Name Nick Diaz
Record 21 - 7 - 0
Wins 12 (T)KOs

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Nick-Diaz-2831
codyq
2/9/10 8:46:36PM
Dude the ONLY KO Diaz has is over Robbie Lawler.
EvenFlow
2/9/10 8:58:23PM

Posted by codyq

Dude the ONLY KO Diaz has is over Robbie Lawler.



TKOs count otherwise they wouldnt be in the same category lol.
codyq
2/9/10 11:07:02PM

TKOs count otherwise they wouldnt be in the same category lol.


I disagree. KO's are "Goodnight" and TKO's are "I think youve had enough"

So did wes sims get KO'd by lashley his last fight OR TKO"d??? I think there is a difference my friend, especially when the debates about "POWER" Diaz is a great boxer, but hes got NO power. His punches add up though, which can be devastating in the end, but the guy has no power. Power in a punch is like brett rogers, Hendo, Daley, wanderlei, etc....etc.
TimW001
2/10/10 12:19:20AM

Posted by codyq


TKOs count otherwise they wouldnt be in the same category lol.


I disagree. KO's are "Goodnight" and TKO's are "I think youve had enough"

So did wes sims get KO'd by lashley his last fight OR TKO"d??? I think there is a difference my friend, especially when the debates about "POWER" Diaz is a great boxer, but hes got NO power. His punches add up though, which can be devastating in the end, but the guy has no power. Power in a punch is like brett rogers, Hendo, Daley, wanderlei, etc....etc.



It's pretty subjective.

This is a TKO


And this is also said to be a TKO


This is another TKO victory


Clearly these TKO victories show that none of these men carry any power, see as they won via TKO and not KO.
EvenFlow
2/10/10 12:57:47AM

Posted by codyq


TKOs count otherwise they wouldnt be in the same category lol.


I disagree. KO's are "Goodnight" and TKO's are "I think youve had enough"

So did wes sims get KO'd by lashley his last fight OR TKO"d??? I think there is a difference my friend, especially when the debates about "POWER" Diaz is a great boxer, but hes got NO power. His punches add up though, which can be devastating in the end, but the guy has no power. Power in a punch is like brett rogers, Hendo, Daley, wanderlei, etc....etc.




How about you get above .500 in your picks before you tell me what a TKO really means ok bud
codyq
2/10/10 1:18:25AM
yeah ive seen all of those fights big guy.

TKO is a referee deciding when the fight ends
KO is YOU deciding when the fight ends



Wes Sims vs Bobby Lashley TKO. Yeah he KO'd Sims huh lol
Or did Chuck KO Tito.....nope it was a TKO
I didnt know cain KO'd Rothewell, oh thats right he TKO'd him
TKO is Cro - cop vs JDS
OR Kimbo vs Roy Nelson
Kimbo vs Petruzelli
Werdum vs Gonzaga
Bisping vs Kang

TKO is a fighter repeatedly beating on a defenseless oppnenet until the ref has seen enough



KO is rampage vs wandi when you saw rampage dangling in the ropes.
KO is wanderlei silva vs Jardine
Lyoto vs Rashad
Lawler vs Manhoef
Wandi vs Hendo
Salmon vs Rashad
Fedor vs Arlovski
Brandon vera vs Justin Eilers
Cro-cop vs Randleman
Cro cop vs Gonzaga
Arlovski vs Rothwell
Roy nelson vs Brendan Shaub
Kieth Jardine vs Houston
Sobral vs Gegard
Souza vs Gegard
Hendo vs Bisping

KO is when YOU KNOW its done



Diaz has no power dude. Anyone can vouch for this. THE ONLY time he KO'd am opponent was over robbie lawler. I will agree that he is a great boxer and his punches can do damage but he is no Knock Out artist. Nice try though.


codyq
2/10/10 1:21:53AM

How about you get above .500 in your picks before you tell me what a TKO really means ok bud


Hey bud, the best thing about MMA is, its unpredictable. If I could predict every fight, I would be a millionaire, plus let me get my feet wet a little here before you start talkin. I actually am an avid MMA poster on CBSsports, this isnt my first rodeo. Good comeback though, I would have used that one if I was in your position too
hate4thestate
2/10/10 1:31:24AM

Posted by codyq

yeah ive seen all of those fights big guy.

TKO is a referee deciding when the fight ends
KO is YOU deciding when the fight ends



Wes Sims vs Bobby Lashley TKO. Yeah he KO'd Sims huh lol
Or did Chuck KO Tito.....nope it was a TKO
I didnt know cain KO'd Rothewell, oh thats right he TKO'd him
TKO is Cro - cop vs JDS
OR Kimbo vs Roy Nelson
Kimbo vs Petruzelli
Werdum vs Gonzaga
Bisping vs Kang

TKO is a fighter repeatedly beating on a defenseless oppnenet until the ref has seen enough



KO is rampage vs wandi when you saw rampage dangling in the ropes.
KO is wanderlei silva vs Jardine
Lyoto vs Rashad
Lawler vs Manhoef
Wandi vs Hendo
Salmon vs Rashad
Fedor vs Arlovski
Brandon vera vs Justin Eilers
Cro-cop vs Randleman
Cro cop vs Gonzaga
Arlovski vs Rothwell
Roy nelson vs Brendan Shaub
Kieth Jardine vs Houston
Sobral vs Gegard
Souza vs Gegard
Hendo vs Bisping

KO is when YOU KNOW its done



Diaz has no power dude. Anyone can vouch for this. THE ONLY time he KO'd am opponent was over robbie lawler. I will agree that he is a great boxer and his punches can do damage but he is no Knock Out artist. Nice try though.





either way your wrong. gegard was pulled off by a ref. ko and tko are essentially the same thing. if you are beating the **** out of a dude and its causing him to unintelligently defend himself obviously your doing something right whether it be from one punch or many. arguing over kos and tkos is a little ridiculous. what you guys are refering to is one punch ko power. to say nick diaz doesnt have power is a little ridiculous. look at how he loops some of his shots and how he throws them. he "turns on" his power when he decides.
EvenFlow
2/10/10 1:40:09AM

Posted by codyq


How about you get above .500 in your picks before you tell me what a TKO really means ok bud


Hey bud, the best thing about MMA is, its unpredictable. If I could predict every fight, I would be a millionaire, plus let me get my feet wet a little here before you start talkin. I actually am an avid MMA poster on CBSsports, this isnt my first rodeo. Good comeback though, I would have used that one if I was in your position too




The better thing is I dont pick a guy who's completely over the hill and at 9% to win a fight here, then you call the fight a "disgrace" when you dont get it right when 91% of us knew that fight was strictly a marketing fight for Couture and hardly main event worthy. You decided to pick a guy who hasnt shown anything since 2003, ya know?
codyq
2/10/10 1:41:17AM

either way your wrong. gegard was pulled off by a ref. ko and tko are essentially the same thing. if you are beating the **** out of a dude and its causing him to unintelligently defend himself obviously your doing something right whether it be from one punch or many. arguing over kos and tkos is a little ridiculous. what you guys are refering to is one punch ko power. to say nick diaz doesnt have power is a little ridiculous. look at how he loops some of his shots and how he throws them. he "turns on" his power when he decides.


We are talking Power period. They guy has no power. He's a "slap boxer"

Also lol when do you ever hear a commentator say "Yeah this guys got technical knock out power"

No its this guys got KO power.

Ok bud you can have diaz as having "TKO" power.

IMO and from what I have seen from diaz is he has NO power; he can box but doesnt have the hands to put your lights out.

He is one of my favorite fighters but I will be the first to admit that Diaz has NO power.

His great boxing is what leaves the ref to stop fights, but other than Robbie......who has he KO'd????

Pookie
2/10/10 1:42:53AM
Power is a subjective term.
Damage is the only way you can objectively break it down.

Damage has less to do with the force being generated(power), but rather how the force is absorbed.

So with this in mind, Accuracy is the most important part of inflicting damage on your opponent. Look for instance at Anderson Silva's KO of Forrest. That punch he threw wasnt anything special, in fact Forrest had been hit harder in that same very fight by anderson. But that punch hit at the part of the jaw that we call the "button". And because of it the fight was ended. The damage done was and is way more important than the power generated.

Diaz is an accurate puncher, and his style of volume wheres on your cardio(through interrupting your breathing and causing you to work constantly). And when you're tired you slip on your defenses, causing diaz accuracy to exponentially become that more important.

So in point, a fighter doesnt need power to end a fight. And since results are the only thing we can conclusively base a "top of the heap" per style arguement on. The subject of power seems ridiculous to be hung up about.

codyq
2/10/10 1:56:10AM

The better thing is I dont pick a guy who's completely over the hill and at 9% to win a fight here, then you call the fight a "disgrace" when you dont get it right when 91% of us knew that fight was strictly a marketing fight for Couture and hardly main event worthy. You decided to pick a guy who hasnt shown anything since 2003, ya know?


Anyone can take the favorite in fights (thats what you do). Picking fights in MMA is GAMBLING. You arent "the fight professor" if you are correct on all your fight picks. ITS GAMBLING (LUCK)

MMA is unpredictable. PLUS My record is NEW, give me some time before you start bumpin your gums. When my pick record looks good, what will you say? After UFC 110 my record will look a lot better.

Everyone picked marquardt in the last event, look what happened.

You picked Manhoef
Cung Le

You pick favorites, dont act like you know a thing or 2.
Shawn91111
2/10/10 2:05:49AM

Posted by codyq


The better thing is I dont pick a guy who's completely over the hill and at 9% to win a fight here, then you call the fight a "disgrace" when you dont get it right when 91% of us knew that fight was strictly a marketing fight for Couture and hardly main event worthy. You decided to pick a guy who hasnt shown anything since 2003, ya know?


Anyone can take the favorite in fights (thats what you do). Picking fights in MMA is GAMBLING. You arent "the fight professor" if you are correct on all your fight picks. ITS GAMBLING (LUCK)

MMA is unpredictable. PLUS My record is NEW, give me some time before you start bumpin your gums. When my pick record looks good, what will you say? After UFC 110 my record will look a lot better.

Everyone picked marquardt in the last event, look what happened.

You picked Manhoef
Cung Le

You pick favorites, dont act like you know a thing or 2.



Someone is not going to last long on the playground. Just like cbssportsline
codyq
2/10/10 2:20:25AM

Someone is not going to last long on the playground. Just like cbssportsline


LOL dude how did you find me haha NOW thats funny. I kinda like this website better. Bring elliot on over, OR are you the same person? LOL
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