renato sobral

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mk1630
8/26/07 2:09:52PM
I was reading about the undercard fights on ufc.com and it said that after sobral won the fans booed and then in the conference after the fight dana white said he did something bad, something really bad and he might get fined or suspended. Does anybody know if this took place in the fight, or if it was because he got arrested?
nickcuc547
8/26/07 2:12:54PM
he held on to a choke about 5-7 seconds after heath tapped, thats what sherdog.com said, he was also fined 25k, thats why he was booed.

the fight wasnt aired last night so i didnt see it but thats what sherdog said and he got fined so it must be true.
DCRage
8/26/07 2:13:58PM
What happened during the fight is Sobral won by submission but didn't let go of the hold after Heath tapped. Sobral claimed Heath said a "choice word" to him, presumably an expletive. The fans booed and as playing to the crowd (with encouragement from cornerman Josh Barnett), Sobral tossed a hat into the crowd after the fight. A fan who caught it tossed it back. Sobral will have $25,000 of his fight purse withheld as punishment.
mk1630
8/26/07 2:19:20PM
Thats a dumbass move holding onto the choke. Funny thing is i read Manny Gamburyan caught the hat and threw it back lol.
kevietre
8/26/07 2:22:16PM
I heard Heath wore a T-Shirt with BABALU's Mugshot on it which is disrespectful but no reason to hold onto a choke any longer than nessecary.
nate22
8/26/07 3:25:54PM
I've always thought Babalu had alot more composure than this. Obviously not, dick move by Heath, but two wrongs don't make a right, especially when we all know how dangerous holding on to a choke can be. It's not the type of event we need to see in UFC, glad it was on the undercard to be honest, entertaining or not.
papercut
8/26/07 3:30:08PM

Posted by kevietre

I heard Heath wore a T-Shirt with BABALU's Mugshot on it which is disrespectful but no reason to hold onto a choke any longer than nessecary.



that isn't right very disrespectful on heath's part but still no need for the extended choke
Jackelope
8/26/07 4:14:56PM
I don't know... no matter how mad he was I still think he should have had the self discipline to let go of the choke. For one any respectful school will teach you when training, sparring, or fighting you should never hold onto a choke unless it's a life threatening situation. For two, imagine the damage it could do to the sport if somebody died. We could literally see the UFC banned for something like that. I say take his whole ******* purse.
Rush
8/26/07 4:57:33PM
I just finished writing two letters to a newspaper editor, CCed to some ignorant sports writers supporting MMA and how it should be a considered a legitimate sport and now you (Babalu) give this asshole sports writer to publicly discredit my letter (if it gets published). Thanks a lot for running the sport down some more and potentially giving an ignorant sports writer an opportunity to publicly mock me.
Jackelope
8/26/07 5:02:51PM
Haha, yeah I had forgotten you wrote that. That does suck. Of course the punk will wait until this crap is all over the news before he publishes your letter. That sucks for ya, man.

I say they throw out any contract he has and ban him from the UFC. They'll ban Lindland for nothing, but watch Babalu stay in for this crap
kaduey
8/26/07 5:23:47PM
I hope you guys were this outraged when Gomi pulled a worse move on Azerado in Bushido or whne Royce Graice use to hold onto his submission for a few more seconds back in the day. Heath disrespected Babalu, so he deserved it.
Jackelope
8/26/07 5:26:36PM
Well, just look at what kind of struggles the UFC went through in the early days thanks to that kind of behavior and other kinds as well. The sport is well past that now and fighters should act accordingly.

I'm also not advocating outright disrespect of your opponent, either. Talking shit like that is for lame ass street fighters like Tank and Kimbo
Rush
8/26/07 6:06:06PM

Posted by Jackelope

Haha, yeah I had forgotten you wrote that. That does suck. Of course the punk will wait until this crap is all over the news before he publishes your letter. That sucks for ya, man.



I can probably intelligently rebuke any statement that this guy could make, but the problem is I don't have the freedom I would as if it were an open debate or forum. Unfortunately the press have the ability to publish things in a timely manner to further their own prejudices/image.

What I find is funny is that this guy hates MMA, which is fine and this Sorbral just gives him another reason to trash it. Yet, similar cases in other sports (Vick, Bryant, some of the hockey fiascoes) don't seem to tarnish the sports' legitimacy in this guys eyes. Hypocrisy in its purest form.


It may not mean much to you guys in the US, where it is 'legal', but it is not accepted in Canada outside of Quebec. Any bad press on MMA does not help get it legalized in Canada.
jomatty
8/26/07 6:11:19PM
i heard all the outrage on sherdog but when i watched the fight it was not 5-7 secondes it was more like 2-3 or so. still a completely dick move but no worse than bj did to pen and considerably better than gomi.
owen1
8/26/07 7:31:59PM
Heath deserved it more than Jens pulver and nothing happened to BJ.They should have the same punishment for both.Babulu should get fined but he deserves another chance.
hippysmacker
8/26/07 9:09:50PM
I have to agree that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Possible brain damage or death seems a bit extreme for wearing a T-shirt.
Jackelope
8/26/07 9:23:31PM
I think Babalu should have been the bigger man. It's not like he didn't send a message for kicking his ass all over the octagon for two rounds straight. Not like he needed to seal the deal.

Kampann vs. McFedries wasn't intentional like Babalu's. Kampmann gave McFedries mad respect after the fight was over. All that one was is Drew McFedries holding on til the last minute and a perfect, perfect, perfect arm triangle sunk in. Not to mention the fact that Kampann was thoroughly rocked by McFedries so you can understand that he was probably sitting about 3 feet back from his actual head as far as consciousness goes. That is one of my favorite MMA moments, actually.

Blatant disrespect towards another fighter and then openly admitting holding on to a choke to teach a lesson is another story. Especially from someone as experienced as Babalu. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Still... that was an absolute ass whooping Babalu laid out. Definitely the Renato of old
Svartorm
8/26/07 10:41:37PM
When you're rocked, you tend to go into survival mode and hang onto things like chokes, armbars, or just positioning for dear life until you can clear your head. That wasn't the case with Babalu, and I'm glad they fined him, as he even admitted he knew Heath tapped and still held on. Very unprofessional, and like you said, he already beat him. Didn't he prove a point in doing that?
nubby
8/27/07 2:08:48PM
BJ didn't hold it for more than a second after Jen's tapped. But it should be noted the big difference between the two is that Sobral held it until Heath went unconcious, BJ did not.
Rush
8/27/07 7:50:41PM

Posted by nubby

BJ didn't hold it for more than a second after Jen's tapped. But it should be noted the big difference between the two is that Sobral held it until Heath went unconcious, BJ did not.




Just playing devils advocate here. That also depends on the state in which the person tapping is. i.e. did they tap just before they go out or a couple seconds before?

Considering we're talking about the difference between 1 sec (BJ vs Jens) or 3 Sec (Babalu), whether the opponent goes unconscious is not that relevant. There are a lot of fights where the fighter goes out without tapping at all.

The bottom line is that Babalu ignored and physically resisted the ref for 2-3 seconds after the tap
Jackelope
8/27/07 8:26:01PM

Posted by Rush

The bottom line is that Babalu ignored and physically resisted the ref for 2-3 seconds after the tap



and if I could just add the fact that afterwards he made an outwardly defiant statement regarding the choke.

I can't help but think when reading all of this stuff about when Frank Mir broke Sylvia's arm. Remember the crowd booing Mir and he said into the mic "I'll rip his ****** arm off if that is what the fans want" Mir was just trying to say he let up because he heard the bone snap, but if the fans want blood they'll get it, and people booed the hell out of him.

It's just incidents like those that make me think about the importance of these fighters displaying professionalism, yet being subject to the fans opinion. Here you have Mir trying to do the right thing and not ripping his arm off, but yet he gets judged by the fans and openly admits "hey, I'll rip his arm off!" It shows how quickly out of control the sport can get and just solidifies the need for professionalism.
JimiMak
8/27/07 8:57:55PM
[RETRACTION]

The original publication of this article included an inaccurate statement that David Heath wore a T-shirt with Sobral’s mug shot on it in an effort to get under Sobral’s skin. Heath DID NOT wear such a T-shirt. In fact, he was wearing a shirt representing his sponsor Warrior Wear and it had no reference whatsoever to Sobral. MMAWeekly would like to apologize to David Heath and his camp for the error and any unwarranted attention that it reflected upon David Heath.

So that part wasn't even true.

link
Rush
8/27/07 11:09:27PM
Interesting how that issue coul've been published considering the weigh ins are shown all over.
TheHitmanTL
8/28/07 1:04:36AM
i gotta say thats pretty jacked up and unclassfull if u ask me.....i now dislike babalu as a person and a fighter...he made the sport look horribly bad right there
Stickan
8/28/07 4:24:42AM
Keith Kizer from NSAC responds:

Renato “Babalu” Sobral’s apparent refusal to relinquish a fight-ending anaconda choke on David Heath at UFC 74 “Respect” Saturday in Las Vegas, Nev., could prove costly for the 31-year-old Brazilian.

Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer confirmed today he has temporarily withheld Sobral's $25,000 win bonus, pending review of his actions. (Sobral was distributed his $25,000 fight purse.) Sobral allegedly ignored Steve Mazzagatti’s commands to release the hold that forced Heath’s submission in the second round of their light heavyweight tilt. Heath was rendered unconscious as a result.

“He appeared to ignore the referee’s verbal and physical commands to break the chokehold and continued to have the chokehold for an inappropriate amount of time thereafter,” Kizer said.

Kizer confronted Sobral (28-7), a former contender for the UFC light heavyweight championship, regarding his actions following the event.

“When we talked to him after the fight, he said, ‘Look, you know, we’re taught, even if you feel a guy tap, you don’t let go when the guy taps because he might be doing a Matt Lindland on you.’ Those are his words,” Kizer said. “He said, ‘Even though I felt Heath tap, I continued to hold the choke until the referee told me to stop, and then I stopped.’ I said, ‘Well, that’s not what I saw.’”

Kizer, who obtained footage of Sobral’s post-fight interview, said the matter would be addressed when the NSAC convenes in Las Vegas at 9:30 AM PST Friday. At that point, the commission could decide to withhold Sobral's bonus and pursue additional action.

Former UFC welterweight champion B.J. Penn drew criticism in June for failing to immediately release his rear-naked choke to a Jens Pulver tapout at "The Ultimate Fighter 5" Finale. However, Pulver never lost consciousness, and the two rivals embraced inside the Octagon seconds later.

“Other than the fact that they were both submission holds, I don’t see a real similarity between those two fights,” Kizer said. “This was much more egregious than that. When the referee gets involved, and when the referee is on you trying to pry off your arms and you still won’t let go, that’s a whole different level to me.”


source


Keith Kizer definately does the right thing here IMO.
Believe-in-judo81
8/28/07 9:16:10AM
I'm a big Sobral fan, and what did last night has cost him no respect from me. Im just bummed that he didn't handle it outside of the cage(Preferably in a non violent manner, though I cheered my ass off for Renato after he caught the choke) where he wasn't going to potentially hurt his career. That said Heath got off light, I'm sure many fighters would have done much worse if Heath pulled what he did to Renato on them. Especially the racist BS (calling him a monkey etc. making digs at his Brazilian heritage) off camera after the weigh-ins. You ask me the moron got at least what he deserved, and hopefully learned to show mutual respect to the other guys out there doing what he does, regardless of whether he likes them or not.
GDK
8/28/07 9:59:34AM
I wasn't as bad as people are making out
When i went to see the replay i expected to see a wildman cranking another man to death with a ref trying to pry him free
It was surely a gruesome specticle
But the blood just made it look worse
Babalu only held on for a couple of second after the ref nudged him at most
A ref mind you that let a fight go on while a puddle of blood was forming
Possibly a litre
That was horrific, but hey is a combat sport
And the fine line of respect is somewhat differant where Babalu comes from
He's not a doctor he's a fighter
Renzo discrides it as giving a little extra love
Brazilians have been known to do this on ocassion
When they lose respect for their opponent due to whatever Brazilian reason, take it upon themselves to teach the other guy a lesson, and no amount of tapping will save the victim from the lesson that is coming
When you disrespect and antagonize a man who can do such things to you, make sure you don't find yourself in a position where he can.
And did Heath deserve it
Well Babalu thought he did
If they go down hard on Babalu it will be to make an example of him
Kinda harsh in my opinion considering some of the more brutal things that have happened in the ring/octagon
He didn't need a bunch of officials to tear him away from his opponent
Maybe if Big John was there he could've stopped it and broke Babalu's nose in the process
nubby
8/28/07 5:16:44PM

Posted by Believe-in-judo81

I'm a big Sobral fan, and what did last night has cost him no respect from me. Im just bummed that he didn't handle it outside of the cage(Preferably in a non violent manner, though I cheered my ass off for Renato after he caught the choke) where he wasn't going to potentially hurt his career. That said Heath got off light, I'm sure many fighters would have done much worse if Heath pulled what he did to Renato on them. Especially the racist BS (calling him a monkey etc. making digs at his Brazilian heritage) off camera after the weigh-ins. You ask me the moron got at least what he deserved, and hopefully learned to show mutual respect to the other guys out there doing what he does, regardless of whether he likes them or not.



Why is it people like you and Renato think its ok to risk the legitamacy of the sport, and the safety of another fighter all in the name of teaching someone a lesson? I really trully hope you are not an adult. Hell even kids know that two wrongs don't make a right. Regardless of Heath's behavior, it is not Renatos right or responsibility to take matters into his own hands and damage the integrity of the sport for his own personal beliefs. Make no mistakes, Dana has already stated that Renato will be reprimanded for his actions. I really hope that Renato gets suspended from fighting for at least 9 months.
cmill21
8/28/07 6:30:07PM
Lost all respect for bablu, he not only held it knowingly but he but the guy to sleep. Thats rediculous, this sports made so much ground on proving it's not barbaric and he goes and jepordizes it.
xchickox
8/28/07 6:35:12PM
it was wrong of babalu to do it, but you can understand him doing it if he is pissed off with heath, i'm not gonna dislike babalu because of it, one another note babalu looked a lot better
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