Relationship question
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Relationship question
george112
6/1/12 12:41:10PM
The fact that she said MAYBE would be enough for me to break up .
She wasn't thinking of you when she said that. She was thinking of her and him and some jerking.
Loyalty and trust are the most important things in a relationship and she just fucked both up
She wasn't thinking of you when she said that. She was thinking of her and him and some jerking.
Loyalty and trust are the most important things in a relationship and she just fucked both up
KungFuMaster
6/1/12 1:36:41PM
I wasn't going to offer my opinion but since my opinion has already been offered by george - I'll go ahead and expand on it.
If I was in your shoes, there are only two options for me.
1. Leave her
2. Keep her until you find someone else.
It is obvious she is not loyal to you. You sound like a faithful kind of guy. She is not worthy of you, Chris. This is essentially the beginning of the end for you and her. I've been down these roads many times. This is a sign of how strong your relationship is with her. You treasure this relationship while she is obviously keeping her options open. I know it's difficult to leave something when you have invested much of your time into it and furthermore - choosing to leave it behind means you will lose something of yourself in the process.
I know you will read all the responses in this thread but at the end of the day - the best advice anyone can give you is to simply follow your heart ....and that - often times is not the best solution but it CAN be something worth fighting for... In the event you fail, the pain is astronomical and likewise when you succeed, the reward is priceless.
Good luck.
If I was in your shoes, there are only two options for me.
1. Leave her
2. Keep her until you find someone else.
It is obvious she is not loyal to you. You sound like a faithful kind of guy. She is not worthy of you, Chris. This is essentially the beginning of the end for you and her. I've been down these roads many times. This is a sign of how strong your relationship is with her. You treasure this relationship while she is obviously keeping her options open. I know it's difficult to leave something when you have invested much of your time into it and furthermore - choosing to leave it behind means you will lose something of yourself in the process.
I know you will read all the responses in this thread but at the end of the day - the best advice anyone can give you is to simply follow your heart ....and that - often times is not the best solution but it CAN be something worth fighting for... In the event you fail, the pain is astronomical and likewise when you succeed, the reward is priceless.
Good luck.
Pskinner_mma314
6/1/12 3:45:36PM
dude as said before....give em a foot and they'll take a mile.
trust in a relationship is THE single most important one feeling in any relationship....and once it's gone it's a motherfucker to get back.
give you the shortest version of what just happened in my last relationship.
we were together for 3 years, first really serious relationship of my life. she went away for school, only about 3 hours away but when you're 20-23, in school and working a full-time job, time together was hard to come by. eventually we started fighting alot.....and essentially, I wound up cheating on her with an ex of mine. huge mistake and my own guilty conciense got the best of me so I admitted what I did. took me admitting it for her to admit to me that she had previously cheated on me twice with 2 different guys. I got mad but I let it go based on what I had done.
time went on for awhile and the trust issue was just too much so we broke up. found out from a mutual friend of my best friend of 9 years that they had hooked up once. i confronted both her and my best friend and they both said it never happened. so about a year goes by of us doing our own thing and we decide to try to work things out. then I start seeing pictures of her kissing some guy on the cheek on her facebook, questioned her, she argued for hours that they were just friends and I told her to stop posting shit like that or she would continue to get that kind of reaction from me. few weeks later I see him post on her wall about the 3-4 hour conversations they are having every night , so I questioned her again. this time she responded with "you know what? you were right about me and your best friend." totally crushed me. finally fished for answers and she said that it was after we broke up and they were both drunk, not an excuse, but a little easier to deal with. so 4 months go by and we start talking again, and I asked if there was anything else she had withheld from me and she said no. 30 minutes later she texts me and says she one thing to tell me and that it was when we were together when they hooked up.
Trust is completely broken and when it is, your chances for success are slim to none. I say run for the hills.
trust in a relationship is THE single most important one feeling in any relationship....and once it's gone it's a motherfucker to get back.
give you the shortest version of what just happened in my last relationship.
we were together for 3 years, first really serious relationship of my life. she went away for school, only about 3 hours away but when you're 20-23, in school and working a full-time job, time together was hard to come by. eventually we started fighting alot.....and essentially, I wound up cheating on her with an ex of mine. huge mistake and my own guilty conciense got the best of me so I admitted what I did. took me admitting it for her to admit to me that she had previously cheated on me twice with 2 different guys. I got mad but I let it go based on what I had done.
time went on for awhile and the trust issue was just too much so we broke up. found out from a mutual friend of my best friend of 9 years that they had hooked up once. i confronted both her and my best friend and they both said it never happened. so about a year goes by of us doing our own thing and we decide to try to work things out. then I start seeing pictures of her kissing some guy on the cheek on her facebook, questioned her, she argued for hours that they were just friends and I told her to stop posting shit like that or she would continue to get that kind of reaction from me. few weeks later I see him post on her wall about the 3-4 hour conversations they are having every night , so I questioned her again. this time she responded with "you know what? you were right about me and your best friend." totally crushed me. finally fished for answers and she said that it was after we broke up and they were both drunk, not an excuse, but a little easier to deal with. so 4 months go by and we start talking again, and I asked if there was anything else she had withheld from me and she said no. 30 minutes later she texts me and says she one thing to tell me and that it was when we were together when they hooked up.
Trust is completely broken and when it is, your chances for success are slim to none. I say run for the hills.
Poor_Franklin
6/1/12 3:55:58PM
Posted by george112
Break up with her dude.
Seriously man. She said maybe.
this is how i feel about it.
i didnt read pages 2 or 3 of the thread & am not sure how long you 2 have been together, but there are MANY other women out there & you deserve better than a maybe.
ChrisSabal
6/1/12 6:04:49PM
I would like to thank everyone of those who gave me responses. What I plan on doing is staying with her since I talked with some friends and I agreed with most of them. Technically she never did do anything too wrong. Yes it was wrong but at least nothing physical happened.
She is walking a thin line and I told her that and she says she understands why. I am not the controlling type but I did say she needs to cut off anyone in her life that would talk to her with more than just friend intentions she also agreed to that.
She said the reason she talked to him so long is that she wanted to see if he would bring up the girlfriend that he has but he never did and when she realized he wouldn't is when she brought up me. I do think this story sounds weird and when I told her that she said if she heard it she wouldn't believe it either.
The reason I am trusting this girl is because she has been crushed by cheating and absolutely hates it. Her dad has cheated on her mom and she has been cheated on I think at least 3 times. She doesn't like it and is very against it.
I think the matter of the fact is, is that we are both young(19) and she has never been in a serious relationship so what she did she didn't think was all that wrong until she saw it from my perspective.
I am usually one to forget things pretty easily but I think this will be a 2 week process for me after that I am going to see how I feel about her.
I will also say technology plays a role in why relationships are becoming less loyal because it makes you finally realize how many fish there are in the season and it helps that you can be more confident in text than you would be in person.
She is walking a thin line and I told her that and she says she understands why. I am not the controlling type but I did say she needs to cut off anyone in her life that would talk to her with more than just friend intentions she also agreed to that.
She said the reason she talked to him so long is that she wanted to see if he would bring up the girlfriend that he has but he never did and when she realized he wouldn't is when she brought up me. I do think this story sounds weird and when I told her that she said if she heard it she wouldn't believe it either.
The reason I am trusting this girl is because she has been crushed by cheating and absolutely hates it. Her dad has cheated on her mom and she has been cheated on I think at least 3 times. She doesn't like it and is very against it.
I think the matter of the fact is, is that we are both young(19) and she has never been in a serious relationship so what she did she didn't think was all that wrong until she saw it from my perspective.
I am usually one to forget things pretty easily but I think this will be a 2 week process for me after that I am going to see how I feel about her.
I will also say technology plays a role in why relationships are becoming less loyal because it makes you finally realize how many fish there are in the season and it helps that you can be more confident in text than you would be in person.
jjeans
6/1/12 6:10:28PM
Posted by ChrisSabal
I will also say technology plays a role in why relationships are becoming less loyal because it makes you finally realize how many fish there are in the season and it helps that you can be more confident in text than you would be in person.
That right there is something should be documented people need to realise this
Aether
6/1/12 6:15:46PM
Personally, I would just tell her pretty much exactly what you wrote here, that you saw it and you want an explanation, then decide what you want to do from there.
cowcatcher
6/1/12 6:24:02PM
Posted by jjeans
Posted by ChrisSabal
I will also say technology plays a role in why relationships are becoming less loyal because it makes you finally realize how many fish there are in the season and it helps that you can be more confident in text than you would be in person.
That right there is something should be documented people need to realise this
Absolutely.
The fear of being caught is lessened in the digital world we live in, and boundaries of social circles are extended so much farther than they were even a decade ago.
If you want to stay with her, then you do that. You're young and this will either end up as a lesson for you or a bump in the road that you got through. Either way you'll take something from this and learn from it. Good luck Chris, I hope it works out for the best.
Bubbles
6/1/12 7:02:35PM
I probably would have done exactly as you had done if that happened to me. I'll ask DD to post a female POV on this situation
Poor_Franklin
6/1/12 8:03:52PM
i think you handled that quite well.
DancingDoll
6/2/12 11:14:43AM
Ok, here's my advice from the girl's POV:
1.
We like attention - even if it's not something we're ever going to act on. This dude is feeding it to her in spades "wow, you have such a great body", "I'll never forget the hook-up", "You're so hot I wish I could have you again, blah blah blah"... We, as girls, like hearing stuff like this. Yeah I know - we should be above it. But you guys would probably entertain past hook-ups flattering your egos as well. She's probably more comfortable letting it go on because it's not even an ex-bf - it's just some guy she banged in Cancun. The less you care, the more it just becomes fun-talk and nothing worthy of feeling guilty for.
2.
If she was really doing something shady or even THINKING of doing something shady, she would definitely have not left her facebook up on your computer. If there are guilt-factors involved, we will cover our tracks. We'll log-out, clear history, delete texts. The fact that she was so casual with leaving the facebook thing open means that she really doesn't feel like she has anything to hide. I wouldn't worry about it.
3.
She already has told him that she has a BF now, so he's outta luck. This is girl-code for - "it's not going to happen". This statement therefore invalidates any level of conversation, light flirting, musing about the past that he might mistake for interest on her part. She's just chatting but she's set the limitations already. Another sign that there's nothing to worry about.
4.
The "maybe" thing is what's upsetting you - in reference to future hook-ups. She might have done this to be 'nice' (like blowing off someone with the old 'sure, we'll hang out sometime' or 'let's do lunch' thing) but with zero intention of any kind of follow-through. OR... she said it because while you're dating right now, who knows what things will look like a year later or two years later. Unless you're planning on long-term relationship/marriage, she's going to be single again "someday" so she might just be keeping options open... in other words - putting him in the reserves to be called up for action at a later date. I don't see anything wrong with people doing this. Things change, relationships break-up... If you said you were engaged right now and she'd given him the 'maybe', then I would have said you have a potential problem on your hands. But for now, I don't see any problem with how she's playing it.
5.
I wouldn't call her on this. It will look like you're snooping or that you don't trust her. Even if the pop-up thing happened accidentally, you still looked. You don't want her getting the wrong idea. This situation in particular just isn't worth having a potential blow-up argument over either. She's not interested and it's not going to go anywhere. Past hook-ups or FWB guys will always get in touch randomly now and then, but since she's shut him down - I wouldn't sweat it. Just let it go and assume she knows what she's doing, even if she entertains a few lines of chit-chat with the guy before telling him it's not going to happen because she's in a relationship now.
Hope that helps! :)
1.
We like attention - even if it's not something we're ever going to act on. This dude is feeding it to her in spades "wow, you have such a great body", "I'll never forget the hook-up", "You're so hot I wish I could have you again, blah blah blah"... We, as girls, like hearing stuff like this. Yeah I know - we should be above it. But you guys would probably entertain past hook-ups flattering your egos as well. She's probably more comfortable letting it go on because it's not even an ex-bf - it's just some guy she banged in Cancun. The less you care, the more it just becomes fun-talk and nothing worthy of feeling guilty for.
2.
If she was really doing something shady or even THINKING of doing something shady, she would definitely have not left her facebook up on your computer. If there are guilt-factors involved, we will cover our tracks. We'll log-out, clear history, delete texts. The fact that she was so casual with leaving the facebook thing open means that she really doesn't feel like she has anything to hide. I wouldn't worry about it.
3.
She already has told him that she has a BF now, so he's outta luck. This is girl-code for - "it's not going to happen". This statement therefore invalidates any level of conversation, light flirting, musing about the past that he might mistake for interest on her part. She's just chatting but she's set the limitations already. Another sign that there's nothing to worry about.
4.
The "maybe" thing is what's upsetting you - in reference to future hook-ups. She might have done this to be 'nice' (like blowing off someone with the old 'sure, we'll hang out sometime' or 'let's do lunch' thing) but with zero intention of any kind of follow-through. OR... she said it because while you're dating right now, who knows what things will look like a year later or two years later. Unless you're planning on long-term relationship/marriage, she's going to be single again "someday" so she might just be keeping options open... in other words - putting him in the reserves to be called up for action at a later date. I don't see anything wrong with people doing this. Things change, relationships break-up... If you said you were engaged right now and she'd given him the 'maybe', then I would have said you have a potential problem on your hands. But for now, I don't see any problem with how she's playing it.
5.
I wouldn't call her on this. It will look like you're snooping or that you don't trust her. Even if the pop-up thing happened accidentally, you still looked. You don't want her getting the wrong idea. This situation in particular just isn't worth having a potential blow-up argument over either. She's not interested and it's not going to go anywhere. Past hook-ups or FWB guys will always get in touch randomly now and then, but since she's shut him down - I wouldn't sweat it. Just let it go and assume she knows what she's doing, even if she entertains a few lines of chit-chat with the guy before telling him it's not going to happen because she's in a relationship now.
Hope that helps! :)
Svartorm
6/2/12 1:39:11PM
I strongly disagree with letting her off the hook based solely on intent and ease of dismissal.
1. Who here talks with ex-hook ups for a purpose other than hooking up again? Not that I can see a show of hands, but I'm fairly sure no one does this. The guys intent is obvious to absolutely everyone, including your girlfriend.
2. It's facebook with a guy who lives far away, she doesn't talk to, and never sees. The internet is the easiest place on Earth to blow someone off forever, if thats what you want to do. The right thing to do is ban them (I don't use facebook so I have no idea what thats called, but I know you can do it) or tell them to fuck off. Once again, she knew exactly what he wants and spent time talking with him. Girls like to be flattered for sure, but it's not like they don't understand the intentions behind it, which makes all the difference.
3. "Maybe" doesn't mean "No" unless it's something they don't want to do. Example:
"Can you help me move this weekend?"
"Maybe" = "No, but I have to find a reason not to first."
"Do you want to hook up again while we're drunk and far away from any significant others or folks that can rat on us?"
"Maybe" = "Yes, but I don't want to feel guilty about this."
Maybe is VERY bad in that context dude. Once again, this isn't someone she ever sees and doesn't have to play nice with.
4.The fact she forgot and left it open doesn't mean it was innocent at all. Think about any of the times you were doing something sexual in nature (masturbating, having sex as a teenager, etc) where you left out evidence of the deed you didn't want to get busted for. Your brain function shifts to mid-brain when doing things based on animalistic nature, such as sex or fighting. The Mid-brain is easily fooled and doesn't take care of details, which is why murderers do stupid shit like leave a knife at a crime scene, or why you left a condom wrapper on your girlfriend's nightstand when you were 15. It takes time to come out of this, so leaving it open doesn't remove guilt whatsoever.
My wife had hooked up with guys before we started dating, and they'd occasionally text her or message her when we started dating. I knew I could trust her because when we become serious, she would tell them to leave her alone. No "maybe", just "No".
My two cents: She's not trustworthy, and that's absolutely everything long term. As long as you're honest with yourself about your future (ie cool with not marrying her) then that's up to you, but if you're looking for long term, I'd step away.
1. Who here talks with ex-hook ups for a purpose other than hooking up again? Not that I can see a show of hands, but I'm fairly sure no one does this. The guys intent is obvious to absolutely everyone, including your girlfriend.
2. It's facebook with a guy who lives far away, she doesn't talk to, and never sees. The internet is the easiest place on Earth to blow someone off forever, if thats what you want to do. The right thing to do is ban them (I don't use facebook so I have no idea what thats called, but I know you can do it) or tell them to fuck off. Once again, she knew exactly what he wants and spent time talking with him. Girls like to be flattered for sure, but it's not like they don't understand the intentions behind it, which makes all the difference.
3. "Maybe" doesn't mean "No" unless it's something they don't want to do. Example:
"Can you help me move this weekend?"
"Maybe" = "No, but I have to find a reason not to first."
"Do you want to hook up again while we're drunk and far away from any significant others or folks that can rat on us?"
"Maybe" = "Yes, but I don't want to feel guilty about this."
Maybe is VERY bad in that context dude. Once again, this isn't someone she ever sees and doesn't have to play nice with.
4.The fact she forgot and left it open doesn't mean it was innocent at all. Think about any of the times you were doing something sexual in nature (masturbating, having sex as a teenager, etc) where you left out evidence of the deed you didn't want to get busted for. Your brain function shifts to mid-brain when doing things based on animalistic nature, such as sex or fighting. The Mid-brain is easily fooled and doesn't take care of details, which is why murderers do stupid shit like leave a knife at a crime scene, or why you left a condom wrapper on your girlfriend's nightstand when you were 15. It takes time to come out of this, so leaving it open doesn't remove guilt whatsoever.
My wife had hooked up with guys before we started dating, and they'd occasionally text her or message her when we started dating. I knew I could trust her because when we become serious, she would tell them to leave her alone. No "maybe", just "No".
My two cents: She's not trustworthy, and that's absolutely everything long term. As long as you're honest with yourself about your future (ie cool with not marrying her) then that's up to you, but if you're looking for long term, I'd step away.
DancingDoll
6/2/12 2:10:42PM
I just read some of the responses in the thread, and... wow, some of you guys are a tough crowd. 
She's 19 years old and she's supposed to block/ban any guy on her facebook that she's ever hooked up with as soon as she gets into a relationship?
A relationship isn't supposed to be social prison. Everyone is allowed to have friends, talk to people of the opposite sex, light-flirt, joke around.
Unless she's talking to this ex-fling on a very regular basis, sexting/phone-sex/cam, or making definite plans to hook up, I don't see any big deal with the situation.
A couple of exchanges on facebook shouldn't send any alarm-bells ringing for either sex.
You have to have some level of trust in the person you're with without having to resort to a tight-leash, otherwise the relationship is doomed to fail anyway, imo.
She's 19 years old and she's supposed to block/ban any guy on her facebook that she's ever hooked up with as soon as she gets into a relationship?
A relationship isn't supposed to be social prison. Everyone is allowed to have friends, talk to people of the opposite sex, light-flirt, joke around.
Unless she's talking to this ex-fling on a very regular basis, sexting/phone-sex/cam, or making definite plans to hook up, I don't see any big deal with the situation.
A couple of exchanges on facebook shouldn't send any alarm-bells ringing for either sex.
You have to have some level of trust in the person you're with without having to resort to a tight-leash, otherwise the relationship is doomed to fail anyway, imo.
Svartorm
6/2/12 2:18:20PM
But they're not friends, they're former hook-ups. It's not the same as a guy you dated and it didn't work out with, etc. There is no common ground to discuss other than fucking.
Light flirting is still flirting and leads to other stuff. If you're serious with a guy, you don't do that either. If you don't want to fall off a cliff, don't walk up to the edge.
Light flirting is still flirting and leads to other stuff. If you're serious with a guy, you don't do that either. If you don't want to fall off a cliff, don't walk up to the edge.
DancingDoll
6/2/12 2:44:51PM
Posted by Svartorm
But they're not friends, they're former hook-ups. It's not the same as a guy you dated and it didn't work out with, etc. There is no common ground to discuss other than fucking.
Light flirting is still flirting and leads to other stuff. If you're serious with a guy, you don't do that either. If you don't want to fall off a cliff, don't walk up to the edge.
Nope, it sounds like he was pitching, and she was putting his advances on the back-burner because she's in a relationship right now. Maybe she wanted to be nice and said the 'maybe' because she's not comfortable telling the guy a straight up 'No' to some arbitrary suggestion about something that's a year into the future anyway.
Plus if it was a vacation fling, they likely have more to discuss than just fucking. I'm assuming they spent some small amount of platonic time together in Cancun before/after hooking up... at least enough to know each other's last name to friend each other on FB, right?
I don't think light flirting is wrong. It's healthy. Most people do it. What do you think happens on girl's nights out when she's with her friends in a bar? Chances are high that she's going to have some kind of vague interaction/conversation with members of the opposite sex. It doesn't mean anything, it's just part of casual social interaction.
I couldn't be in a relationship where a guy insisted on that level of control. I would feel like he had zero trust in me. I also wouldn't want to feel like I needed to police his every move that way either. There's way too many pitfalls and landmines along the way with FB, the internet, party nights with their friends, bachelor/bachelorette parties in Vegas or whatever to stress about if the leash is that tight.
At some point you have to trust in what you have.
Svartorm
6/2/12 3:04:50PM
That's just it though. If you *have* something, you don't put things on the back burner. I've never agreed with staying with someone until someone better comes along. If you want out, get out. If you don't, don't have a contingency plan to fuck some guy in a year.
I really don't understand flirting just to do it, and especially for females. Not to get into a rant about self-defense and the perceptions of a persons actions, but you're setting yourself up for trouble in situations like that.
I also don't drink unless I'm planning on getting drunk, so these things could be connected. If I honestly don't want something to happen, I wouldn't put myself in a position where it could.
I really don't understand flirting just to do it, and especially for females. Not to get into a rant about self-defense and the perceptions of a persons actions, but you're setting yourself up for trouble in situations like that.
I also don't drink unless I'm planning on getting drunk, so these things could be connected. If I honestly don't want something to happen, I wouldn't put myself in a position where it could.
DancingDoll
6/2/12 4:32:24PM
Posted by Svartorm
That's just it though. If you *have* something, you don't put things on the back burner. I've never agreed with staying with someone until someone better comes along. If you want out, get out. If you don't, don't have a contingency plan to fuck some guy in a year.
I really don't understand flirting just to do it, and especially for females. Not to get into a rant about self-defense and the perceptions of a persons actions, but you're setting yourself up for trouble in situations like that.
I also don't drink unless I'm planning on getting drunk, so these things could be connected. If I honestly don't want something to happen, I wouldn't put myself in a position where it could.
I don't follow this line of logic, personally. As per the self-defense comment and the 'asking for trouble' bit (especially as it applies to women), it starts making this a slippery slope argument that I won't comment on because it will take this thread in the wrong direction and I'll probably just end up getting pissed off.
As it is, we just have different outlooks. I don't drink just to get drunk just like I don't talk to guys just to get laid. I enjoy both activities as part of having fun and being social. You are correct in saying there is probably a correlation to our outlooks based on those differences, though.
People should just do whatever works best for their own version of a healthy-relationship. If both people agree that they aren't allowed to ever to talk to an ex or a past hook-up or they're not allowed to flirt with members of the opposite sex and those kind of rules work for them, then I won't judge. Whatever works, works...
Pookie
6/2/12 7:30:03PM
You gotta kill her man. There's no going back now Chris.
KungFuMaster
6/2/12 9:07:44PM
I just want to pop my HEAD in here and let you know I have been following the conversation between Svatrom and DD....
...And from the looks of things, I have come to one conclusion. DD is a cheater.
I still love you though, DD.
...And from the looks of things, I have come to one conclusion. DD is a cheater.
I still love you though, DD.
Michael_Corleone
6/3/12 11:15:25AM
Posted by KungFuMaster
I just want to pop my HEAD in here and let you know I have been following the conversation between Svatrom and DD....
...And from the looks of things, I have come to one conclusion. DD is a cheater.
I still love you though, DD.
Really? I was able to come to a couple conclusions myself.
1) DD is a cool ass chick.
2) KFM lives in his grandmother's basement.
DancingDoll
6/3/12 2:40:15PM
Posted by KungFuMaster
I just want to pop my HEAD in here and let you know I have been following the conversation between Svatrom and DD....
...And from the looks of things, I have come to one conclusion. DD is a cheater.
I still love you though, DD.
Haha!
Actually - I'm not. I'm just very careful about the kind of commitments I make.
I'll admit I did cheat on a boyfriend once but technically I dumped him for the new guy within 2 weeks and I never slept with the BF again after hooking up with the new one. Fundamentally I can't be into someone and then lie/cheat/deceive and still stay with them and fake it. It's just not in my make up. I *am* a flirt though, there's no question about that, and I like to joke around - but it's all in fun.
I don't necessarily believe that traditional monogamy is always the key to a healthy relationship for everyone. I've done both, but personally, I'm happiest in a more open-minded relationship. 'Open' doesn't mean cheating - it just means full-disclosure where the couple settles on their own rules about what's allowed and what isn't. I don't advocate it for everyone, but I do believe that human beings are sexual creatures and ignoring that fact often leads to the cheating and deception in the first place, so why not avoid it if you can.
But going back to the OP's girlfriend - based on what I read - she wasn't planning on cheating. I just don't think people need to get overly paranoid and think the worst unless there's good reason to. Sometimes the really controlling/jealous/clingy thing can push someone to cheat because they want to rebel.... OR you end up making it more taboo/exciting because of all the rules and suspicions. People are weird that way, right? You tell them they can't do something and make a big deal about it and it just ends up making them want to do it even more...
KungFuMaster
6/3/12 7:40:04PM
Posted by DancingDoll
Posted by KungFuMaster
I just want to pop my HEAD in here and let you know I have been following the conversation between Svatrom and DD....
...And from the looks of things, I have come to one conclusion. DD is a cheater.
I still love you though, DD.
Haha!
Actually - I'm not. I'm just very careful about the kind of commitments I make.
I'll admit I did cheat on a boyfriend once but technically I dumped him for the new guy within 2 weeks and I never slept with the BF again after hooking up with the new one. Fundamentally I can't be into someone and then lie/cheat/deceive and still stay with them and fake it. It's just not in my make up. I *am* a flirt though, there's no question about that, and I like to joke around - but it's all in fun.
I don't necessarily believe that traditional monogamy is always the key to a healthy relationship for everyone. I've done both, but personally, I'm happiest in a more open-minded relationship. 'Open' doesn't mean cheating - it just means full-disclosure where the couple settles on their own rules about what's allowed and what isn't. I don't advocate it for everyone, but I do believe that human beings are sexual creatures and ignoring that fact often leads to the cheating and deception in the first place, so why not avoid it if you can.
But going back to the OP's girlfriend - based on what I read - she wasn't planning on cheating. I just don't think people need to get overly paranoid and think the worst unless there's good reason to. Sometimes the really controlling/jealous/clingy thing can push someone to cheat because they want to rebel.... OR you end up making it more taboo/exciting because of all the rules and suspicions. People are weird that way, right? You tell them they can't do something and make a big deal about it and it just ends up making them want to do it even more...
Fair enough. I think most people have cheated at least once in their lifetimes and this includes the actual act as well as the intent whether it is successful or not.
If you're in a relationship but you go around flirting left and right, some would call it harmless while others would call it cheating - and I happen to be one of those who believe flirting is a form of cheating. To me, flirting is a sign of wanting to and or having the desire to cheat. If there was no desire to cheat, there would be no flirting to begin with...
Would you agree with me - those who flirt more are more prone to cheating than those who simply refuse to flirt? If you willingly put yourself in situations whereby cheating can occur, is it safe to say you are not afraid to cheat and that you are actually welcoming the affair? When you wear clothes which show a lot of cleavage, are you upset when men glance at you more than once? In essence, flirting and showing cleavage are invitations for men who are willing to take that step.
I find women who wear revealing outfits and are flirtatious to be unstable. Unstable as in not fit for long term relationships. Unstable as in not fit to be a mother....and this is not a knock on you, DD, my darling. This is just my generalization of those types of women. Furthermore, that is not to say those women who wear revealing outfits and are flirtatious ARE NOT going to be fit for long term relationships in the future. They could very well turn out to be excellent partners and mothers in the long run.
Basically, we have two argumentative themes meshed in one debate. The first theme is women should not be flirting when IN a SERIOUS relationship and the other is - it is acceptable for women to flirt when IN a premarital and or non-serious relationship. Some of the guys in this thread are arguing FOR the first theme and you are arguing for the second theme.....And as a person who was once active in the dating games, I can't fault you for your desire to flirt especially when you are young and have not made plans to settle down or be committed - but that does not mean cheating is OK.
Bubbles
6/3/12 8:25:00PM
here is another question for you guys (and girl): is it considered cheating to a) go to a strip club, and/or b) get a lap dance?
DancingDoll
6/3/12 8:47:03PM
Posted by KungFuMaster
Fair enough. I think most people have cheated at least once in their lifetimes and this includes the actual act as well as the intent whether it is successful or not.
If you're in a relationship but you go around flirting left and right, some would call it harmless while others would call it cheating - and I happen to be one of those who believe flirting is a form of cheating. To me, flirting is a sign of wanting to and or having the desire to cheat. If there was no desire to cheat, there would be no flirting to begin with...
Would you agree with me - those who flirt more are more prone to cheating than those who simply refuse to flirt? If you willingly put yourself in situations whereby cheating can occur, is it safe to say you are not afraid to cheat and that you are actually welcoming the affair? When you wear clothes which show a lot of cleavage, are you upset when men glance at you more than once? In essence, flirting and showing cleavage are invitations for men who are willing to take that step.
I find women who wear revealing outfits and are flirtatious to be unstable. Unstable as in not fit for long term relationships. Unstable as in not fit to be a mother....and this is not a knock on you, DD, my darling. This is just my generalization of those types of women. Furthermore, that is not to say those women who wear revealing outfits and are flirtatious ARE NOT going to be fit for long term relationships in the future. They could very well turn out to be excellent partners and mothers in the long run.
Basically, we have two argumentative themes meshed in one debate. The first theme is women should not be flirting when IN a SERIOUS relationship and the other is - it is acceptable for women to flirt when IN a premarital and or non-serious relationship. Some of the guys in this thread are arguing FOR the first theme and you are arguing for the second theme.....And as a person who was once active in the dating games, I can't fault you for your desire to flirt especially when you are young and have not made plans to settle down or be committed - but that does not mean cheating is OK.
Wow. There are so many things wrong with this post, I'm almost uncertain as to whether you're actually being serious or just baiting me in jest. lol
Women who show cleavage are unstable and unfit mothers? Really? To be honest, last time I wore my Burqa to the clubs, it didn't really go over that well. Besides, I don't really have child-bearing hips or a dowry to my name, so it's not like men are going to want me anyway.
Ok, ok, I'm being bad - I'll be more serious and try to answer your Q's first:
1. Would you agree with me - those who flirt more are more prone to cheating than those who simply refuse to flirt?
- Nope.
2. If you willingly put yourself in situations whereby cheating can occur, is it safe to say you are not afraid to cheat and that you are actually welcoming the affair?
- Cheating can occur anywhere technically. It can happen in an office, the lockerroom at the gym, a bathroom at a bar on girl's night. You can't avoid life because you don't feel confident in your ability to say 'no'. You're only 'welcoming an affair' when you say Yes. Nobody should feel 'afraid to cheat' - it requires a decision. I don't believe in excuses.
3. When you wear clothes which show a lot of cleavage, are you upset when men glance at you more than once?
- Nope.
4. In essence, flirting and showing cleavage are invitations for men who are willing to take that step.
- Seriously?? An 'invitation'. Most people think it's about fashion. By that estimation though any man should be able to have sex with any woman in SoCal or on any public beach since they are clearly sending an invitation that they are horny by wearing a v-neck or a bikini. That logic doesn't work.
I'll clarify my position:
1. Yes, cheating is wrong. I never said it was ok.
2. Flirting, fantasizing, watching porn or masturbating isn't cheating. I'm not going to go all Clinton-esque here in my definition of sex on this one but let's call a spade a spade. Cheating requires physical interaction or emotional involvement with another person where you have to deceive your partner - and neither of those factors are present in any of things I've mentioned.
3. Assuming we're talking about the free world - women can wear whatever they want. It doesn't mean that they're unstable, slutty or 'asking for it'. Commitment doesn't mean being doomed to a life of turtlenecks and ankle-length skirts while avoiding eye contact with members of the opposite sex.
4. People who look outwardly conservative and don't ever flirt - those people are just as prone to cheating and often those are the types that are way kinkier and into super-freaky stuff, by the way.
5. You and I potentially have very different interpretations of the word "flirting" so that might be what's causing the confusion.
6. If you trust your partner you should feel confident that no matter what situation presented itself, your partner has the self-control to keep things in line and say 'no'. If casually joking around with a member of the opposite sex or some mild innuendo one-upping each other is all it takes to lead to sex, then wow it must be pretty easy for guys to get laid anytime they want by barely issuing a girl a compliment. Weird how I hear guys always complaining it's so hard to close the deal when it comes to finessing a new girl.
7. I guess cheating is all relative. You might decide with your partner that her wearing a v-neck sweater is cheating. That's cool. It's up to every couple to define their own limits of what's allowed and as long as they both agree to it, I think that's really all that matters.
DancingDoll
6/3/12 9:00:10PM
Posted by Bubbles
here is another question for you guys (and girl): is it considered cheating to a) go to a strip club, and/or b) get a lap dance?
Nope - I personally don't consider that cheating. I would rather a BF tell me about it though (I'd enjoy hearing the details). I would be disappointed if he felt that he had to hide something like that from me though.
I have actually taken a boyfriend to strip clubs and gotten lap dances for both of us and for him alone for his birthday. It's fun.
As for me - I don't go to male strip clubs (I think the idea of a guy dancing in a g-string is super lame and cheesy) but I've gone to female strip clubs with other girlfriends. I've always told my BF about it if I do, and no guy has ever had any issue with it.
Pookie
6/3/12 10:40:50PM
Posted by Bubbles
here is another question for you guys (and girl): is it considered cheating to a) go to a strip club, and/or b) get a lap dance?
Nope.
If that's cheating, than it's also cheating for a girl to wear make-up to work.
Pookie
6/3/12 10:44:49PM
Repression of one's emotions is more likely to lead to acting outside of one's character.
Those who hold themselves to a high-horse or holier than thou standards are much more likely to cheat IMO, because they don't monitor themselves as honestly, and repressing one's self only makes it a bigger issue later.
Those who hold themselves to a high-horse or holier than thou standards are much more likely to cheat IMO, because they don't monitor themselves as honestly, and repressing one's self only makes it a bigger issue later.
jakewalters
6/3/12 11:47:01PM
This conversation has gotten delightfully existential
Bubbles
6/4/12 12:07:18AM
Posted by DancingDoll
Posted by Bubbles
here is another question for you guys (and girl): is it considered cheating to a) go to a strip club, and/or b) get a lap dance?
Nope - I personally don't consider that cheating. I would rather a BF tell me about it though (I'd enjoy hearing the details). I would be disappointed if he felt that he had to hide something like that from me though.
I have actually taken a boyfriend to strip clubs and gotten lap dances for both of us and for him alone for his birthday. It's fun.
As for me - I don't go to male strip clubs (I think the idea of a guy dancing in a g-string is super lame and cheesy) but I've gone to female strip clubs with other girlfriends. I've always told my BF about it if I do, and no guy has ever had any issue with it.
well you don't count because you're awesome
I encourage girls to go to strip clubs and experience a hot naked chick grinding up on them. I'd appreciate my gf more if she was open to going there. Most of my past gf's preferred me not to go, or at the very least just say I went and nothing happened. One girl ended our relationship because I got a lap dance lol. I don't quite understand the insecurities they have about this but whatever. I've presented this to a few of my female friends and most also said no while a couple were iffy on it.
Bubbles
6/4/12 12:09:10AM
DD's last counterpoint = game, set, match 