reasons vs. excuses

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shinobi
5/2/07 11:20:54PM
i hate it when fighters or fans make up excuses for a fighters loss. a reason is different, an example would be : he didnt throw enough jabs or leg kicks and let the other guy control the fight. this would indicate a fighter made a mistake and needs to learn from it, but got beat. an excuse like, he slipped or something or got hit in the back of the head like GSP did, doesnt sit well with me. those things happen, serra didnt mean to and it wasnt a big deal, GSP could've shot on serra and grappled until regaining strength. any thoughts?
Gogoplata
5/3/07 12:20:28AM

Posted by shinobi

i hate it when fighters or fans make up excuses for a fighters loss. a reason is different, an example would be : he didnt throw enough jabs or leg kicks and let the other guy control the fight. this would indicate a fighter made a mistake and needs to learn from it, but got beat. an excuse like, he slipped or something or got hit in the back of the head like GSP did, doesnt sit well with me. those things happen, serra didnt mean to and it wasnt a big deal, GSP could've shot on serra and grappled until regaining strength. any thoughts?



Are you saying GSP said he slipped and got hit in the back of the head? Or that his fans are saying that?

Fans will always make excuses, no matter what the outcome of the fight. Fighters, on the other hand, should never make excuses, shit happens, a fight is a fight.

I haven't heard GSP make a single excuse about that fight other than Matt Serra being the best fighter on that night.
richieb19
5/3/07 12:25:08AM
Shamrock losing to Fujita: REASON
Ultimate_fighter
5/3/07 1:33:04PM
I think the fighter that makes up the most excuses is Tim Sylvia by far. His last fight I thought he said something about being injured, and a couple other fights he says that his arm or back is hurt so its hard on his boxing and wresting.
Rush
5/3/07 4:00:21PM

Posted by shinobi

i hate it when fighters or fans make up excuses for a fighters loss. a reason is different, an example would be : he didnt throw enough jabs or leg kicks and let the other guy control the fight. this would indicate a fighter made a mistake and needs to learn from it, but got beat. an excuse like, he slipped or something or got hit in the back of the head like GSP did, doesnt sit well with me. those things happen, serra didn't mean to and it wasnt a big deal, GSP could've shot on serra and grappled until regaining strength. any thoughts?




GSP didn't slip. He said that Serra tagged him on the back of the head and he was dazed and wasn't able to recover. He told me personally. There were other reasons that factored into his loss, but never once did he say that he should've won the fight.

That being said, what part of getting hit on the back of the head is an excuse? If you get hit and it hurts or makes you dazed that is what happen and if it contributed or was the reason for the loss, then it's not an excuse.

For you to say that Serra didn't mean to hit GSP in the head is a bit presumptuous of you. For you to judge what a fighter could've or should've done is also totally presumptuous and arrogant. How do you know what he could and couldn't do at that time?

As for a reason vs. an excuse.

There is always a reason for losing, but not always an excuse.

Reasons would be things like:
the other guy was better
I made a mistake
I wasn't mentally ready
I got tired

Excuses
I was injured (but it doesn't show)
I was sick (but it doesn't show)
I was jet lagged (but it doesn't show)
I didn't have enough time to prepare


However, many times, the things people use as excuses do really contribute to the loss. I think the difference boils down to your personal definition. I like to think that a reason is something observed, whereas an excuse is something that is less tangible (i.e. there is no evidence of the excuse given). The other thing is excuses take something away from the winner and reasons do not.
cowcatcher
5/3/07 4:34:54PM
what would you say if hughes got beat by trigg when he got hit in the stones and hughes claimed thats why he lost.....id say reason in that rare case
Rush
5/3/07 4:36:59PM

Posted by cowcatcher

what would you say if hughes got beat by trigg when he got hit in the stones and hughes claimed thats why he lost.....id say reason in that rare case



Of course, because you see the guy get tagged in the nuts. Same with eye pokes
MMA117
5/3/07 7:11:27PM
I have a question about this..

When Wandi lost the belt to hendo (nothing from hendo hes crazy good) wandi was in the hospital on i.v.'s because of the flu and strep, when he got in he was lathargic and kinda weak in my mind this has alot to do w/ the end result.

Excuse or reason?
shinobi
5/4/07 11:20:37PM
i believe that would be a reason, if its a legitimate flu that can stop you in your tracks, just a cold then nvm. and that thing about slipping was just a random example. nothing to do with GSP. sorry if i wrote the paragraph wrong.
JimiMak
5/5/07 12:33:44AM
I think, largely, it isn't what they say. I think it's what they say and how they say it. GSP, to my knowledge, has never said he shouldn't have lost due to illegal blow. He mentioned getting tagged in the back of the ear and some nuthuggers want to claim it isn't legit. Sickness I don't think is legit as an excuse, if you stepped in you knew what you were doing, but as a reason.... eh, it teeters. There's a lot of health planning that goes into a fight, you should be healthy and on weight.
The more a fighter says things the worse it looks also. Arona always has a "reason" and ppl get sick of it. His excuse on Shogun not only isn't legit as an excuse (even if he was right) but the video shows its not even close (maybe he was so out that''s how he remembers it).
shinobi
5/5/07 6:41:52AM
i agree GSP's loss is legit, that stuff happens. and yeah they do know what they're doing by stepping i nthe ring, but a reason would be why they didnt perform up to par, whether its win or lose. good point.
Ydoc
5/5/07 10:49:24AM

Posted by Rush
GSP didn't slip.



Yes he did. In fact, every KO ever recorded in the history of time is just one guy slipping unto the ground. Human can't knock each other out, only the loss of ground traction can.[/MORON]

Seriously though, great thread. Something that can be argued both ways is Coleman vs. Shogun. He has a reason because he broke a bone, but if someone can force your bone to break how can you call it a fluke?

Tim had good reason with crapping his shorts but he can only use it once since he fights every fight like he shit his shorts ever since Silva.
Rush
5/5/07 11:40:46PM

Posted by Ydoc



Yes he did. In fact, every KO ever recorded in the history of time is just one guy slipping unto the ground. Human can't knock each other out, only the loss of ground traction can.[/MORON]



I don't understand what you are trying to say. Unto means "until" for one and what do you mean that only the loss of traction knocks people out? Also, what's with the moron yabb tag?

Let me clarify. I define a slip as a loss of traction. GSP stumbled after he got tagged and lost his orientation, but he didn't slip on the (wet) canvas as some people have proposed.
Ydoc
5/6/07 1:42:39AM
First, it's a joke post. I thought you'd get that when I claimed humans can't knock each other out. Sarcasm is hard to portray online. [/moron] is a old Internet joke... I'm turning off the stupid personality and returning to my normal self. It was mainly an exaggerated parody of the posts we saw here after GSP lost.

And unto can also mean "to."
Rush
5/6/07 10:23:17PM

Posted by Ydoc

First, it's a joke post. I thought you'd get that when I claimed humans can't knock each other out. Sarcasm is hard to portray online. [/moron] is a old Internet joke... I'm turning off the stupid personality and returning to my normal self. It was mainly an exaggerated parody of the posts we saw here after GSP lost.

And unto can also mean "to."



sorry, I didn't konw you were trying to be sarcastic.

As for unto meaning "to", the Oxford dictionary states that unto is also to as it pertains to "till", yet you see many references in the Bible using unto in other forms. Damn, old English.
Ydoc
5/7/07 12:56:03AM
No problem man, I'll try to lay it on thicker next time.
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