Real technique used in UFC..

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HMA123
7/25/08 9:09:44PM
I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..
Pookie
7/25/08 9:23:56PM

Posted by HMA123

I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..



What?
npayant
7/25/08 9:30:25PM

Posted by HMA123

I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..



What's the special technique you'd like to see these fighters use?

Pookie
7/25/08 9:32:38PM

Posted by npayant


Posted by HMA123

I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..



What's the special technique you'd like to see these fighters use?




Possibly the Spirit bomb

It wont work if your stuck in an armbar though... requires two hands.
Rush
7/25/08 9:33:09PM
Depends on the fight. In some cases I see guys just let the sub get applied and wait to tap.

One example of an obvious sub defense was Joslin vs. Koscheck. Joslin tried to apply a triangle and Josh did a clean defense.

All in all I think it depends on the sub. fighters seem to defend more against certain subs. Also, there is a difference between knowing how to defend or defending in class and defending in a real fight. Some guys tend to lose their head in a real fight.
Jackelope
7/25/08 10:53:36PM
This is a good question. I actually found myself talking about the same thing around the gym today.

For example- for most triangles the proper defense is to actually posture up and try to throw the legs to the side for side control. However, in MMA you usually see guys try to stack and power over to side control almost like a guard pass.

I think the main difference is GnP in MMA vs. simple submission defense in BJJ. When you're trying to lay down some GnP in MMA on a dude and he starts moving his hips it's a natural tendency to stick your head down and control the triceps because you want to maintain your position to dish out more punishment and you also don't want to leave an arm hanging out for the arm bar. In BJJ when you feel the hip movement you think for the guard pass because you're trying to land a submission. When throwing proper GnP in MMA you're supposed to keep your hips in and head up. So when dudes throw a triangle up vs. GnP immediately a fighter senses the hip movement and goes to the roots of head down tricep control. Once you're there against a good Jits guy there's no posturing up, so dudes try the stack and pass.

Just my .02
The_Ho_Bag
7/25/08 11:46:09PM
WoOIWOWOWOWow my jits trainer has said the same thing =) he says they just use force and etc.... no skill or technique
juanez13
7/26/08 12:08:18AM
I think alot has to do with the sense of lack of time. When they get caught in a sub its just a matter of time before they have to tap out, and you feel you dont have enough time to try and get out, so they use Brute force as their last source. Not just that, but its also how the sub is being applied, if you get caught in a well executed tight triangle, by the time you're posturing up you'll be done, and there is no way of getting out of it, which differs if you get caught in a triangle which is put on properly, but not as tight, which will give you a bit of extra time which is when you see guys trying to get out the right way. If a guy like Maia get an armbar, Triangle etc.. gets a submission hold on you that window of opportunity for you try and counter to get out is so small, by the time they try to use it it'll be gone. From experience you can I can tell the difference easily, when my brother gets a triangle on me, and when a black belt gets a triangle, its a whole different world.
mrsmiley
7/26/08 12:09:09AM
Watch Bas Ruttens Big DVD's of combat.He shows escapes for everything on those 7 priceless gems.Being able to apply them in training,compared to an actual fight is two different levels all together though.Easier said than done.
murphy_16
7/26/08 12:17:26AM

Posted by HMA123

I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..


wat you never seen in some of gsp's fights wen he gets put in a submission he just busts out some criss angel shit and telaports to the other side of the cage. i thot everyone seen that
bls1919
7/27/08 12:55:02AM
What Kind of technique do you want them to use. Mostly guys who get caught in subs arent BJJ practitioners. They probably dont know the techniques. And other than the "hand on the phone" technique for triangles and head chokes what is there other than scrambling and trying to power out.
mkiv9secsupra
7/27/08 11:19:40AM


in all fairness there is some technique behind powering out... you cant just start pushing and pulling on arms and legs to see if you can get out. and why would the fighter try and circle out of armbars and triangles if he can just as easily pull himself out? If its effective then who cares?
Rush
7/27/08 1:45:43PM

Posted by bls1919

What Kind of technique do you want them to use. Mostly guys who get caught in subs arent BJJ practitioners. They probably dont know the techniques. And other than the "hand on the phone" technique for triangles and head chokes what is there other than scrambling and trying to power out.




That is not true. There are a number of BJJ brown and black belts that have gotten subbed and by less experienced BJJ fighters too.




Posted by Jackelope

For example- for most triangles the proper defense is to actually posture up and try to throw the legs to the side for side control. However, in MMA you usually see guys try to stack and power over to side control almost like a guard pass.



Stacking is a way to get out of a triangle and posturing is a way to prevent getting into one. Stacking can work if you move before the triangle is fully set. However, it depends on which fighter can also throw some strikes first.



Posted by mkiv9secsupra
in all fairness there is some technique behind powering out... you cant just start pushing and pulling on arms and legs to see if you can get out.




Actually powering out and using technique are completely opposite (at least the way I have learned martial arts). And yes, a lot of sub defense and escapes are pretty simple maneuvers that involve arm and leg placement.
Jackelope
7/27/08 2:26:16PM

Posted by Rush


1) That is not true. There are a number of BJJ brown and black belts that have gotten subbed and by less experienced BJJ fighters too.



2) Stacking is a way to get out of a triangle and posturing is a way to prevent getting into one. Stacking can work if you move before the triangle is fully set. However, it depends on which fighter can also throw some strikes first.





For #1- Kevin Burns vs. Roan Carneiro is a perfect example of this.

For #2- Posturing is a way to prevent, sure, but it is also a way to get out. Once the triangle has been put around your neck as long as there is space you can posture up to create the space between their legs needed to get an arm in and shuck to the side. Especially in the case of GnP since you will already be postured throwing the GnP. All you've got to do is put the phone to your ear, look up at the ceiling, start turning and get a hand in. There isn't only 1 way to get out of a triangle
mrsumo
7/27/08 7:10:25PM
It does appear often that the fighters are giving up when caught up in a triangle. There are techniques to counter the triangle, but they usually require you to start the counter as the technique is being applied, not when you are in it. If the triangle is on tight, you don't have much room to do anything with your arms. And the leverage the opponent has over you makes it even harder. The legs are pretty strong, and it is not that easy to just move them to apply a counter technique. Another factor is your air. It is kind of hard to remember your training when your brain is fighting for air. If you train hard on counters you will find it easier to get out of triangles. But you will also find that you wont end up in as many either, which is the best counter of them all.
mrsumo
7/27/08 7:12:03PM

Posted by bls1919

What Kind of technique do you want them to use. Mostly guys who get caught in subs arent BJJ practitioners. They probably dont know the techniques. And other than the "hand on the phone" technique for triangles and head chokes what is there other than scrambling and trying to power out.



Hand on the phone? Is that like Monkey grabs the peach?
bls1919
7/27/08 8:11:38PM
No its a technique where a fighter puts his hand on his ear to create space for breathing and such.
DevonFoxy
7/27/08 8:38:18PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by npayant


Posted by HMA123

I was just thinking about how everytime you see a submissions locked in / in place or whatever, you never (atleast i dont, most of the time) see the opponent actually try to use technique to escape. For example if i see someone get caught in a triangle 99% of the time the persons trys to just power out or slam.. Thats no technique there..

Yes its easier said then done, maybe its just the heat of the moment also.
What do you guys have to say about this..



What's the special technique you'd like to see these fighters use?




Possibly the Spirit bomb

It wont work if your stuck in an armbar though... requires two hands.



I think were missing the biggest mishap in this.....Trunks does not do the spirit bomb......at least I don't remember it....
mrsumo
7/28/08 7:18:42AM

Posted by bls1919

No its a technique where a fighter puts his hand on his ear to create space for breathing and such.



Thanks for the info. I havn't heard of that particular name before!
Wolfenstein
7/28/08 3:53:45PM
It is surprising that some of these black belts in MMA seem lost trying to escape from triangles. I see a lot of guys use the sit and pry, where you sit on your butt, cross your feet on his stomach and pry your way out. It's surprisingly effective. I usually try and step across the body with the foot on the same side as the arm that's free. Although sometimes I end up on the bottom with the trianglestill locked on, I'd say it works about 80% of the time.
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