The real King of Rock n Roll...

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KungFuMaster
3/16/12 12:12:29PM
is Chuck Berry.

Chuck Berry
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 12:15:19PM
Feel free to discuss Elvis and the early Rock n Roll music in the mid 1900s.
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 12:19:43PM
Why did the record labels decide to pick Elvis over all the existing African American artists?
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 12:23:48PM
Did you guys know - there are countless songs written by African American artists which only made it to the record labels under a White artist. Many songs were stolen or bought illegally back in those days.
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 12:27:54PM
Here is the real question for you.

Who or what prevented African American artists from stardom in the early and mid 1900s?
emfleek
3/16/12 12:36:55PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

is Chuck Berry.

Chuck Berry



You and I finally agree on something.



Chuck Berry > Elvis

He wasn't exactly a stand-up individual but in terms of music, he is definitely the real king of rock 'n roll, imo.



And to answer your question...


Who or what prevented African American artists from stardom in the early and mid 1900s?


Bigotry.
cowcatcher
3/16/12 1:39:45PM
There's a pretty simple answer to your question and Fleek nailed it. The stuff you mentioned is pretty well known to most people I would think. It was just a different time and a different attitude by the public in general. Not saying it was right by any means, but it was what it was and I'm glad the majority of people have moved past it.
Chael_Sonnen
3/16/12 2:50:48PM
Chuck Berry = the first true Guitar Legend.

Great artist, horrible person.
Poor_Franklin
3/16/12 3:20:08PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Great artist, horrible person.



anyone ever seen the video of him pissing on a woman?

"Yeah baby. Drink that piss"

followed by a loud fart

"Yeah girl. you can smell my fart."

Then the woman starts crying & he tries to make her feel better about it & she tries to give him a kiss to make her feel better & he says

"I can't kiss you baby-you smell like piss!"
Poor_Franklin
3/16/12 3:24:58PM

Posted by cowcatcher

It was just a different time and a different attitude by the public in general. but it was what it was and I'm glad the majority of people have moved past it.



This guy from Mississippi cannot say the same
cowcatcher
3/16/12 3:26:19PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin


Posted by cowcatcher

It was just a different time and a different attitude by the public in general. but it was what it was and I'm glad the majority of people have moved past it.



This guy from Mississippi cannot say the same



There are idiots and bigots everywhere, you just happen to be at ground zero.
Chael_Sonnen
3/16/12 3:56:26PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin


Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Great artist, horrible person.



anyone ever seen the video of him pissing on a woman?

"Yeah baby. Drink that piss"

followed by a loud fart

"Yeah girl. you can smell my fart."

Then the woman starts crying & he tries to make her feel better about it & she tries to give him a kiss to make her feel better & he says

"I can't kiss you baby-you smell like piss!"



Almost every great guitar player (97%) owes Chuck a major prop.

Judas Priest does a mean remake of Johnny Be Good
Poor_Franklin
3/16/12 3:57:40PM
oh my quote didnt beat the edit
Poor_Franklin
3/16/12 4:15:53PM
on the subject of ignorant Mississippians....Ignorant folks like these are why it is embarrassing to tell people where I'm from

Southern Miss fans hurl racism at NCAA tournament

my favorite part is Angel rodriguez's response to the "Where's your green card?" chant?

"I heard it. I don't pay attention to that nonsense, especially because Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, so we don't need no type of papers,"

cowcatcher
3/16/12 4:33:39PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin

on the subject of ignorant Mississippians....Ignorant folks like these are why it is embarrassing to tell people where I'm from

Southern Miss fans hurl racism at NCAA tournament

my favorite part is Angel rodriguez's response to the "Where's your green card?" chant?

"I heard it. I don't pay attention to that nonsense, especially because Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, so we don't need no type of papers,"




The first thing I thought when I heard the chant was, "Isn't he Puerto Rican?" You'd think that college students would know what's part of our country and what isn't.
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 4:49:00PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

is Chuck Berry.

Chuck Berry



You and I finally agree on something.



Chuck Berry > Elvis

He wasn't exactly a stand-up individual but in terms of music, he is definitely the real king of rock 'n roll, imo.



And to answer your question...


Who or what prevented African American artists from stardom in the early and mid 1900s?


Bigotry.



Posted by cowcatcher

There's a pretty simple answer to your question and Fleek nailed it. The stuff you mentioned is pretty well known to most people I would think. It was just a different time and a different attitude by the public in general. Not saying it was right by any means, but it was what it was and I'm glad the majority of people have moved past it.



I was going to say something else other than racism. It is my opinion the American people as a whole were ready to receive African Americans as artists during the mid 1900s. The reason African Americans were not signed for major record deals was simply because of fear and greed from the major record labels. Most of the record labels were not racists but they were certainly fearful the American people would not support an African American artist......and so as it turns out, most of them only signed White artists.

They key thing I want you to receive from this is that - Americans were ready to embrace African Americans as singers, song writers and entertainers. This is not a fact but it is agreed upon by many people and historians.
jjeans
3/16/12 4:54:18PM

Posted by Poor_Franklin


Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Great artist, horrible person.



anyone ever seen the video of him pissing on a woman?

"Yeah baby. Drink that piss"

followed by a loud fart

"Yeah girl. you can smell my fart."

Then the woman starts crying & he tries to make her feel better about it & she tries to give him a kiss to make her feel better & he says

"I can't kiss you baby-you smell like piss!"



HAHAHAHA Please PM me a link to that

KungFuMaster
3/16/12 4:55:28PM
And yes, Chuck Berry's life did take a twist after he failed to succeed in the music industry. He got into drugs and all sorts of other problems which probably may not have happened if he had succeeded in the music business.

But IMO, he did succeed and was the one of the pioneers of rhythm and blues, and rock n roll.
cowcatcher
3/16/12 4:58:37PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

And yes, Chuck Berry's life did take a twist after he failed to succeed in the music industry. He got into drugs and all sorts of other problems which probably may not have happened if he had succeeded in the music business.

But IMO, he did succeed and was the one of the pioneers of rhythm and blues, and rock n roll.



Or maybe being a great musician and having success don't equate to being a good person in your daily life...some people are just shitty dude, they may have talent, but they are still shitty people and I won't make excuses for them based on what if's.
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 5:05:55PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by KungFuMaster

And yes, Chuck Berry's life did take a twist after he failed to succeed in the music industry. He got into drugs and all sorts of other problems which probably may not have happened if he had succeeded in the music business.

But IMO, he did succeed and was the one of the pioneers of rhythm and blues, and rock n roll.



Or maybe being a great musician and having success don't equate to being a good person in your daily life...some people are just shitty dude, they may have talent, but they are still shitty people and I won't make excuses for them based on what if's.



I understand. Some people are bitter no matter what kind of talents they have.

Some of the most well known composers in history were bitter souls e.g. Richard Wagner. He was instrumental in paving the way to Antisemtism in Europe.
KungFuMaster
3/16/12 5:59:51PM
In the spirit of this thread, we have come a long way. It was not too long ago when an African American was not allowed to vote, go to the same school as his white peers etc. And now we have an American president who is of African descent.
Poor_Franklin
3/16/12 7:08:09PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by Poor_Franklin


Posted by Chael_Sonnen
Great artist, horrible person.



anyone ever seen the video of him pissing on a woman?

"Yeah baby. Drink that piss"

followed by a loud fart

"Yeah girl. you can smell my fart."

Then the woman starts crying & he tries to make her feel better about it & she tries to give him a kiss to make her feel better & he says

"I can't kiss you baby-you smell like piss!"



HAHAHAHA Please PM me a link to that




ive only seen it on a bootleg vhs tape. if i find it online i'll PM it to you, as it is def not safe for the site
warglory
3/16/12 8:42:01PM
Chuck Berry was definitely an innovator, but there's no way he is the King of Rock in Roll. Elvis is considered the king because he was one of the first white musicians to break out of the traditional mold of bluesman, country singer and/or gospel, and combine it all together with a country-based predominant back beat. And the biggest selling point of this was that he had a TON of cross appeal with whites, blacks and latinos amongst the largest sectors associated with these kinds of music, and the fact that he was a white man unfortunately was a huge selling point.

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955. I'd say that Little Richard and Jerry Lewis had a larger impact on rock as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWlWA1YTBw

It's worth noting, that from a personal perspective, I think Little Richard obliterates all of the early rock n roll artists. The man is absurdly talented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcARII3-0jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEmJW2sOUs
emfleek
3/16/12 8:51:28PM

Posted by warglory

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFq5O2kabQo



Elvis was 11 in 1946.

"That's Alright" was recorded and released in 1954.


warglory
3/16/12 9:09:39PM

Posted by emfleek


Posted by warglory

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFq5O2kabQo



Elvis was 11 in 1946.

"That's Alright" was recorded and released in 1954.





You're right, my bad. I was reading up on the song, and the original was recorded in 1946.
KungFuMaster
3/17/12 1:41:31AM

Posted by warglory

Chuck Berry was definitely an innovator, but there's no way he is the King of Rock in Roll. Elvis is considered the king because he was one of the first white musicians to break out of the traditional mold of bluesman, country singer and/or gospel, and combine it all together with a country-based predominant back beat. And the biggest selling point of this was that he had a TON of cross appeal with whites, blacks and latinos amongst the largest sectors associated with these kinds of music, and the fact that he was a white man unfortunately was a huge selling point.

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955. I'd say that Little Richard and Jerry Lewis had a larger impact on rock as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWlWA1YTBw

It's worth noting, that from a personal perspective, I think Little Richard obliterates all of the early rock n roll artists. The man is absurdly talented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcARII3-0jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEmJW2sOUs



I'm glad there is an opposition here who is in favor of Elvis being called the King of Rock n Roll. However, your first point in your argument is rather incredible and maybe even contradictory to what you are trying to say. You said Elvis was one of the first White artist to combine all these musical styles into what we call Rock n Roll. Why did you choose to use the term White Artist? If Elvis was such a talented guy, do you think he could have done it as an African American person? I will simply tell you - No. If Elvis was African American, he would not have achieved the kind of greatness the American people have bestowed upon him.

Record labels were afraid to invest in African American artists because they feared the American people would not support an African American. In the early days of recordings, record labels would buy the proprietary rights of songs which were written by African American artists and have White artists sing the songs - all the while the songs were advertised as composed by so and so other than the original African American musicians. Many of these songs were number one hits and it is my opinion they would have still been number if they were recorded, sung and performed by the original African American artists.

When Elvis came along, he provided something different and unique. During this time period, the American people were ecstatic about music and were eagerly awaiting a star. African American artists such as Berry, Richard, and Lewis were all unique in that they provided something the world had never heard before. Their sounds were groundbreaking and the American people loved them but the record labels were still fearful an African American artist would be a bad investment.

The recording company which hyped Elvis was willing to invest in Elvis because Elvis was White.

Was Elvis talented? Yes, he was.

We both know Elvis became great because he had talent and he appealed to the record labels and the American people because he was White. Was Elvis more talented than his African American peers and the artists who came before him? The answer is subject to opinions but IMO, he was not nearly close to the talent of some of his African American peers.
Adrenaline
3/17/12 4:24:28AM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by warglory

Chuck Berry was definitely an innovator, but there's no way he is the King of Rock in Roll. Elvis is considered the king because he was one of the first white musicians to break out of the traditional mold of bluesman, country singer and/or gospel, and combine it all together with a country-based predominant back beat. And the biggest selling point of this was that he had a TON of cross appeal with whites, blacks and latinos amongst the largest sectors associated with these kinds of music, and the fact that he was a white man unfortunately was a huge selling point.

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955. I'd say that Little Richard and Jerry Lewis had a larger impact on rock as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWlWA1YTBw

It's worth noting, that from a personal perspective, I think Little Richard obliterates all of the early rock n roll artists. The man is absurdly talented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcARII3-0jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEmJW2sOUs



I'm glad there is an opposition here who is in favor of Elvis being called the King of Rock n Roll. However, your first point in your argument is rather incredible and maybe even contradictory to what you are trying to say. You said Elvis was one of the first White artist to combine all these musical styles into what we call Rock n Roll. Why did you choose to use the term White Artist? If Elvis was such a talented guy, do you think he could have done it as an African American person? I will simply tell you - No. If Elvis was African American, he would not have achieved the kind of greatness the American people have bestowed upon him.

Record labels were afraid to invest in African American artists because they feared the American people would not support an African American. In the early days of recordings, record labels would buy the proprietary rights of songs which were written by African American artists and have White artists sing the songs - all the while the songs were advertised as composed by so and so other than the original African American musicians. Many of these songs were number one hits and it is my opinion they would have still been number if they were recorded, sung and performed by the original African American artists.

When Elvis came along, he provided something different and unique. During this time period, the American people were ecstatic about music and were eagerly awaiting a star. African American artists such as Berry, Richard, and Lewis were all unique in that they provided something the world had never heard before. Their sounds were groundbreaking and the American people loved them but the record labels were still fearful an African American artist would be a bad investment.

The recording company which hyped Elvis was willing to invest in Elvis because Elvis was White.

Was Elvis talented? Yes, he was.

We both know Elvis became great because he had talent and he appealed to the record labels and the American people because he was White. Was Elvis more talented than his African American peers and the artists who came before him? The answer is subject to opinions but IMO, he was not nearly close to the talent of some of his African American peers.






Game on KFM, can't wait for your long winded response to my long winded response.

I think you are playing the race card pretty heavily when comparing the two, you make very good points and I'm sure that was definately part of the issue, but in life, regardless of race, the most "talented" people are not necissarily the most popular. I'm sure I don't have to give any examples, turn on the radio and you will hear what is popular, not neccissarily what is good. If you are striclty talking who you think is more talented, that is subject to opinion and that is great but to say that Elvis was only more popular because he was white, although it may have given him more opportunity based on your view point, is a really cheap way to sum up your arguement.

Elvis is the king of rock and roll because he was the complete package. Even if you don't think he was the best (which I wouldn't argue that he was) you can't deny that he was talented across multiple platforms. He was charismatic, good looking, his music was great, he could dance, and he became a big movie star/ actor. Can you say all of the same things about Chuck Berry? If you think Chuck is more musically gifted, that is fine because his stuff was incredible, but to imply that Elvis was only popular because of his race gives off a bit of that "blame whitey" vibe. Elvis, whether he was the most talented or not had damn near everything someone looks for in a big star and it takes someone like that to bring something mainstream. Could an African American done the same thing? I don't know if there is even a point in arguing that part because according to you we will never know because the "man" wouldn't give them a chance.

I guess it comes down to who was the best and who was the most important, because they are two different things. I will try to use an MMA analogy, hopefully it makes sense:

Who is the greatest LHW of all time? Most tend to say either Shogun or Wand and rightly so but I say Chuck Liddell. It's not because I think he was the most talented, or the best, its because I think he was the most important. While he was not the best at everything, he was the complete package. While he was a great fighter, he had other attributes that made him into a huge star. He had a look that made people pay attention, his fighting style got people excited, while he lacked charizma, he had an aura about him that people ate up, he was a badass wrapped up in a package everyone could either root for or against. The UFC made him their poster boy and he (with Tito and Randy etc..) carried the UFC through dark times and into the phenomenon it is today. Its all hindsight now but what if the UFC didn't have superstar like Chuck? Pride failed, and until recently only die hards knew who Shogun and Wand were. Everyone who knew anything about MMA knew who Chuck Liddell was. It takes someone like that to go mainstream, get where I'm going with that?

Wait what the hell was I just talking about, Chuck is white! Duhh that's the only reason he is a big star and considered a GOAT. Silly me


And whats the point of this thread, thanks to you, we already know WHO THE KING IS
warglory
3/17/12 4:08:18PM

Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by warglory

Chuck Berry was definitely an innovator, but there's no way he is the King of Rock in Roll. Elvis is considered the king because he was one of the first white musicians to break out of the traditional mold of bluesman, country singer and/or gospel, and combine it all together with a country-based predominant back beat. And the biggest selling point of this was that he had a TON of cross appeal with whites, blacks and latinos amongst the largest sectors associated with these kinds of music, and the fact that he was a white man unfortunately was a huge selling point.

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955. I'd say that Little Richard and Jerry Lewis had a larger impact on rock as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWlWA1YTBw

It's worth noting, that from a personal perspective, I think Little Richard obliterates all of the early rock n roll artists. The man is absurdly talented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcARII3-0jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEmJW2sOUs



I'm glad there is an opposition here who is in favor of Elvis being called the King of Rock n Roll. However, your first point in your argument is rather incredible and maybe even contradictory to what you are trying to say. You said Elvis was one of the first White artist to combine all these musical styles into what we call Rock n Roll. Why did you choose to use the term White Artist? If Elvis was such a talented guy, do you think he could have done it as an African American person? I will simply tell you - No. If Elvis was African American, he would not have achieved the kind of greatness the American people have bestowed upon him.

Record labels were afraid to invest in African American artists because they feared the American people would not support an African American. In the early days of recordings, record labels would buy the proprietary rights of songs which were written by African American artists and have White artists sing the songs - all the while the songs were advertised as composed by so and so other than the original African American musicians. Many of these songs were number one hits and it is my opinion they would have still been number if they were recorded, sung and performed by the original African American artists.

When Elvis came along, he provided something different and unique. During this time period, the American people were ecstatic about music and were eagerly awaiting a star. African American artists such as Berry, Richard, and Lewis were all unique in that they provided something the world had never heard before. Their sounds were groundbreaking and the American people loved them but the record labels were still fearful an African American artist would be a bad investment.

The recording company which hyped Elvis was willing to invest in Elvis because Elvis was White.

Was Elvis talented? Yes, he was.

We both know Elvis became great because he had talent and he appealed to the record labels and the American people because he was White. Was Elvis more talented than his African American peers and the artists who came before him? The answer is subject to opinions but IMO, he was not nearly close to the talent of some of his African American peers.






Game on KFM, can't wait for your long winded response to my long winded response.

I think you are playing the race card pretty heavily when comparing the two, you make very good points and I'm sure that was definately part of the issue, but in life, regardless of race, the most "talented" people are not necissarily the most popular. I'm sure I don't have to give any examples, turn on the radio and you will hear what is popular, not neccissarily what is good. If you are striclty talking who you think is more talented, that is subject to opinion and that is great but to say that Elvis was only more popular because he was white, although it may have given him more opportunity based on your view point, is a really cheap way to sum up your arguement.

Elvis is the king of rock and roll because he was the complete package. Even if you don't think he was the best (which I wouldn't argue that he was) you can't deny that he was talented across multiple platforms. He was charismatic, good looking, his music was great, he could dance, and he became a big movie star/ actor. Can you say all of the same things about Chuck Berry? If you think Chuck is more musically gifted, that is fine because his stuff was incredible, but to imply that Elvis was only popular because of his race gives off a bit of that "blame whitey" vibe. Elvis, whether he was the most talented or not had damn near everything someone looks for in a big star and it takes someone like that to bring something mainstream. Could an African American done the same thing? I don't know if there is even a point in arguing that part because according to you we will never know because the "man" wouldn't give them a chance.

I guess it comes down to who was the best and who was the most important, because they are two different things. I will try to use an MMA analogy, hopefully it makes sense:

Who is the greatest LHW of all time? Most tend to say either Shogun or Wand and rightly so but I say Chuck Liddell. It's not because I think he was the most talented, or the best, its because I think he was the most important. While he was not the best at everything, he was the complete package. While he was a great fighter, he had other attributes that made him into a huge star. He had a look that made people pay attention, his fighting style got people excited, while he lacked charizma, he had an aura about him that people ate up, he was a badass wrapped up in a package everyone could either root for or against. The UFC made him their poster boy and he (with Tito and Randy etc..) carried the UFC through dark times and into the phenomenon it is today. Its all hindsight now but what if the UFC didn't have superstar like Chuck? Pride failed, and until recently only die hards knew who Shogun and Wand were. Everyone who knew anything about MMA knew who Chuck Liddell was. It takes someone like that to go mainstream, get where I'm going with that?

Wait what the hell was I just talking about, Chuck is white! Duhh that's the only reason he is a big star and considered a GOAT. Silly me


And whats the point of this thread, thanks to you, we already know WHO THE KING IS



Props to you! I very much agree with your sentiments. There are plenty of progenitors of that era that were incredibly original and talented, but rock n roll is also pop culture, and Elvis defined mainstream popularity of rock music.

Michael Jackson is arguably not the most innovative or talented pop musician of all time, but he is probably the most popular and most influential, hence his moniker of king of pop.

(EDIT: tried to prop, will give you your just deserves some other time!)
KungFuMaster
3/17/12 4:10:22PM

Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by warglory

Chuck Berry was definitely an innovator, but there's no way he is the King of Rock in Roll. Elvis is considered the king because he was one of the first white musicians to break out of the traditional mold of bluesman, country singer and/or gospel, and combine it all together with a country-based predominant back beat. And the biggest selling point of this was that he had a TON of cross appeal with whites, blacks and latinos amongst the largest sectors associated with these kinds of music, and the fact that he was a white man unfortunately was a huge selling point.

Elvis' original recording of the cover "That's All Right" was done in 1946, that's almost 10 years before rock n roll made a huge hit in the U.S. Chuck Berry's first hit, "Maybellene" didn't come out until 1955. I'd say that Little Richard and Jerry Lewis had a larger impact on rock as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWlWA1YTBw

It's worth noting, that from a personal perspective, I think Little Richard obliterates all of the early rock n roll artists. The man is absurdly talented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcARII3-0jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEmJW2sOUs



I'm glad there is an opposition here who is in favor of Elvis being called the King of Rock n Roll. However, your first point in your argument is rather incredible and maybe even contradictory to what you are trying to say. You said Elvis was one of the first White artist to combine all these musical styles into what we call Rock n Roll. Why did you choose to use the term White Artist? If Elvis was such a talented guy, do you think he could have done it as an African American person? I will simply tell you - No. If Elvis was African American, he would not have achieved the kind of greatness the American people have bestowed upon him.

Record labels were afraid to invest in African American artists because they feared the American people would not support an African American. In the early days of recordings, record labels would buy the proprietary rights of songs which were written by African American artists and have White artists sing the songs - all the while the songs were advertised as composed by so and so other than the original African American musicians. Many of these songs were number one hits and it is my opinion they would have still been number if they were recorded, sung and performed by the original African American artists.

When Elvis came along, he provided something different and unique. During this time period, the American people were ecstatic about music and were eagerly awaiting a star. African American artists such as Berry, Richard, and Lewis were all unique in that they provided something the world had never heard before. Their sounds were groundbreaking and the American people loved them but the record labels were still fearful an African American artist would be a bad investment.

The recording company which hyped Elvis was willing to invest in Elvis because Elvis was White.

Was Elvis talented? Yes, he was.

We both know Elvis became great because he had talent and he appealed to the record labels and the American people because he was White. Was Elvis more talented than his African American peers and the artists who came before him? The answer is subject to opinions but IMO, he was not nearly close to the talent of some of his African American peers.






Game on KFM, can't wait for your long winded response to my long winded response.

I think you are playing the race card pretty heavily when comparing the two, you make very good points and I'm sure that was definately part of the issue, but in life, regardless of race, the most "talented" people are not necissarily the most popular. I'm sure I don't have to give any examples, turn on the radio and you will hear what is popular, not neccissarily what is good. If you are striclty talking who you think is more talented, that is subject to opinion and that is great but to say that Elvis was only more popular because he was white, although it may have given him more opportunity based on your view point, is a really cheap way to sum up your arguement.

Elvis is the king of rock and roll because he was the complete package. Even if you don't think he was the best (which I wouldn't argue that he was) you can't deny that he was talented across multiple platforms. He was charismatic, good looking, his music was great, he could dance, and he became a big movie star/ actor. Can you say all of the same things about Chuck Berry? If you think Chuck is more musically gifted, that is fine because his stuff was incredible, but to imply that Elvis was only popular because of his race gives off a bit of that "blame whitey" vibe. Elvis, whether he was the most talented or not had damn near everything someone looks for in a big star and it takes someone like that to bring something mainstream. Could an African American done the same thing? I don't know if there is even a point in arguing that part because according to you we will never know because the "man" wouldn't give them a chance.

I guess it comes down to who was the best and who was the most important, because they are two different things. I will try to use an MMA analogy, hopefully it makes sense:

Who is the greatest LHW of all time? Most tend to say either Shogun or Wand and rightly so but I say Chuck Liddell. It's not because I think he was the most talented, or the best, its because I think he was the most important. While he was not the best at everything, he was the complete package. While he was a great fighter, he had other attributes that made him into a huge star. He had a look that made people pay attention, his fighting style got people excited, while he lacked charizma, he had an aura about him that people ate up, he was a badass wrapped up in a package everyone could either root for or against. The UFC made him their poster boy and he (with Tito and Randy etc..) carried the UFC through dark times and into the phenomenon it is today. Its all hindsight now but what if the UFC didn't have superstar like Chuck? Pride failed, and until recently only die hards knew who Shogun and Wand were. Everyone who knew anything about MMA knew who Chuck Liddell was. It takes someone like that to go mainstream, get where I'm going with that?

Wait what the hell was I just talking about, Chuck is white! Duhh that's the only reason he is a big star and considered a GOAT. Silly me


And whats the point of this thread, thanks to you, we already know WHO THE KING IS



I understand completely what you are arguing and in-fact, I agree. To be great IMO, one must be good at what he does AND be able to appeal to the vast majority of the people. However, what you're not getting from me is the essential part of my argument which is African American artists, during those times, were not given the opportunity to shine. They were not promoted no matter how groundbreaking and original their music were. Chuck Berry introduced groundbreaking sounds and melodies to the world but was he ever promoted and the answer is no.

Elvis captured the hearts of the American people because he was different from all of the other White artists AND was given the opportunity to reach every American listener. There were a handful of African American artists who were unique and different AND were amazing musicians and performers but because they were never promoted, we will never know what kind of stardom they would have achieved if given the proper opportunity. Equal opportunity is what set Elvis and the many great African American artists apart.

IMO, Elvis did not have to be all that good and he would have still been the poster boy in his time.

Regardless of the discussion, at least we both agree - to be great, you don't necessarily have to be the best. All you need is the hype machine behind you and a good public image.

I just have one last question for you.

Can Elvis do this?
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