Rate these HW prospects

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » Rate these HW prospects
8/11/08 8:59:48PM
Rate these guys based on what level you think they are fighting at right now and then again by how much upside potential they have.

The list (in alphabetical orde only):

Shane Corwin
Kevin Ferguson (Kimbo Slice)
Roger Gracie
Brock Lesnar
Pawel Nastula
Antonio Silva
Cain Velasquez
8/11/08 9:08:19PM
alright my rankings go like this: 10 being Fedor and 1 being the cans Travis Fulton beats

Shane Carwin- 5...potential to be 7 but he is 33 so i don't know how much he can improve

Kimbo- 4...potential to be 6 but again he is old as well

Roger Gracie- 6.5 - 7...potential to be 9

Lesnar- 6.5 - 7...potential to be 9

Nastula- 6.5 - 7...i don't know how old he is but i did like what i saw in his fights and i would say he has the potential to be a solid 7.5 - 8

Antonio Silva- 7...potential to be 8.5 - 9

Cain Velasquez- 6.5 - 7...potential to be 9
8/11/08 9:22:52PM
I'll add a zero for rating purposes (I used to play a ton of Madden)

Carwin- Probably around 70, he is 33.. good wrestler, decent hands, purple belt BJJ... has the potential to be around 83-84 (Solid B)

Kimbo- Probably around 56-58 range, he is around 33-34 as well with not much of a ground game he probably has just a bit more potential then where he is at now... 64 perhaps?

Roger Gracie- Probably around 70-72, very good grappler (understatement), young, a lot of upside, especially since he is a heavyweight. I think he could potentially be around 86 or so.

Lesnar- Athletic freak with great college wrestling credentials, right now probably around 70-75 with a lot of upside. Dont think you will see him on his back, very fast.. his potential is probably around 88-90.

Nastula- Definately up in years nearing 40 years old. He is probably around 70-72 right now and not much potential due to his age tbh, maybe up to 74-76.. this question would have been great if he was 29.

Antonio Silva- Probably around 75 right now, looks to be well rounded, and BIG. Not sure how well he moves (Did not appear to be that quick against Ricco Rodriguez.. but I heard he had a knee injury at the time). So his potential might be around 82-84 range.

Cain Velasquez- Pretty good prospect right now, id say he is around 70 and looks to be well rounded. I think he is 26 years old so he definitely has some good years ahead of him. Potential imo is around 84-86.
8/11/08 9:42:08PM
I'll steal JJFreaks marks out of ten for this.

Shane Carwin: - 5 or 6-10 good base but I can't see him improving and would be wiped out by all the top end of the competition. Also as JJfreak mentioned he's getting on a bit so I can't see him getting any better.

Kevin Ferguson (Kimbo Slice): - 4-10 and I'm being generous. No doubt about him being a powerful guy but no ground game and pretty sloppy stand up means his name will always be bigger then his talent.

Roger Gracie: - 7-10 Top notch ground game and with a little more stand up he could become one of the best HW out there. He's still young 25 or 26 I think so right now I'd say he's one of if not the hottest up and coming HW property. I would put money on him beating any of the other guys on this list.

Brock Lesnar: - 6-10 Solid wrestling, explosive speed and huge power but very little else. He's 31 and has had some pretty nasty injuries from pro wrestling, collage wrestling and the football so I can't see him improving much more.

Pawel Nastula: - 5-10 man I feel sorry for him. Awesome judo, and I mean awesome but his debut was against Big Nog then Aleksander Emelianenko. I don't know who he pissed off but they are with out doubt the hardest debut fights I'v ever seen. I think he's in his 40's now so I don't see him making much of a impact at all, but he seriously is good at judo.

Antonio Silva: - 6-10 looks to be well rounded and is HUGE! 6'4" and 300lb with a good skill set could be a danger in the time to come. I'm not to sure if he will ever be a danger to the legit end of the HW table but could be a prospect to keep a eye on.

Cain Velasquez: -7-10 Great young prospect, solid wrestling background looks to have good hands and explosive. Training with a good team with AKA and already has a strong legit win under his belt with O'Brian. I personally think Velasquez will be the future of the HW devision and other than Roger Gracie the only one on the list that could break into top 10 and stay there.

8/11/08 9:47:19PM
Where they are now:
Antonio Silva- He's got the best wins right now.
Brock Lesnar- 2-1 record and has shown great improvement
Pawel Nastula- losing record, but has only fought the best. His judo would test anybody.
Cain Velasquez- Has looked great in the UFC so far, a step up in competition would send him to the top
Roger Gracie- Probably the best HW grappler in the world, would love to see him vs. Munson in Sengoku
Shane Carwin- Big KO... solid wrestling
Kimbo- Looked a little lost in the cage at times vs. JT. Needs big time work on his ground game.

Brock Lesnar- His combination of strength and speed is completely unique in MMA. His age is the only thing holding him back
Roger Gracie- If they bring him up slowly and he trains enough striking to get by, he could be the top HW in the world someday. Still young.
Antonio Silva- Simply put, the guy is huge. Bigfoot is still young and has shown a pretty well rounded MMA game so far.
Cain Velasquez- Has a good wrestling background and has shown power in his hands. He is training at a great place and can only get better.
Kimbo- Kimbo has real power in his hands. Seems like a decent athlete. It will all come down to his ability to aquire a ground game. His lack of a background in grappling and his age make me doubt that it will ever be enough to take him to the top.
Pawel Nastula- I doubt his dedication to MMA. It's hard for someone who has trained in a discipline for so long to give up it's hang ups. His age will keep him from ever being a complete MMA fighter.
Shane Carwin- He's got potential, I just don't see as much as everyone else listed. Definitely could prove me wrong, but he doesn't have forever.
8/11/08 10:11:12PM
Shane Carwin gets a 6.5/10, He's a 2x High School Wrestling Champ, has Power in his Hands and can Submit you when he wants

Kimbo gets a 2/10, He Throws 1 Dimensional Bombs, he wouldn't do anything against anyone with just a Little Boxing and a Ground Game. His Wrestling Sucks and has no Jui Jitsu

Roger Gracie Rates in at a 6/10, An Absolute ADCC Champ but offers nothing else but his Size. I don't think he'll do anything Significant in the Heavyweight Division

Brock Lesnar gets a 7/10, His Size and Strength can take him to a lot of Places, he has Great Power in his hands. He just needs to learn some Jui Jitsu

Pawel Nastula gets a 6/10, Amazing Judo and Good Submissions, but he's been fed to the Wolfs early in his Career

Antonio Silva gets a 7/10, He can get Taken Down and Knocked out so he's really not the Prodigy everybody wants him to be but he does have Heavy Hands

Cain Velasquez Rates in at a Great 9/10, We haven't seen a Chink in his Armor but we haven't seen him Trade with someone who has Great Hands but he's the next Big Thing
8/11/08 10:37:41PM
Shane Carwin////////7--­­­­>8(a bit old)

Kevin Ferguson//////5--->6(he got almost beat by the colosus)

Roger Gracie////////7-->9(young and he is a gracie....so)

Brock Lesnar///////8--> 9(he prove that he can destroy almost everybody)

Pawel Nastula///////6-->7(dont know a lot about him but he faught good competition)

Antonio Silva////////7--->9(he is big and he got great skill)

Cain Velasquez////////8--->9(he already a top fighter IMO)

8/11/08 10:46:08PM
Pawel Nastula is the most talented out of all, But he started very late, and now at 38 I dont think he'll go for much longer. He was Fed to the best early on, and he put on a though match for all and showed amazing potential, Grappling wise none can match up to him, at one point people thought he would be the one to dethrone Fedor.

The Rest->
1.Brock Lesnar-> Athletic ability and Raw power make him very dangerous, on top of being a very good wrestler, with some solid boxing and BJJ training he'll be a monster.

2. Cain-> Very young, improves every time he is out there, Has shown good striking with a very solid wrestling background. Looks to have a bright future.

3. Antonio Silva

4. Roger Gracie

5.Shane Carwin

6. Kimbo Slice-> Too late of a start on MMA without being particularly good at any one thing, as much as he can improve I dont see him ever being a threat to a major title.

8/11/08 10:58:40PM
velasquez looks damn good. i'm close to adding him as a favorite. i think him, lesner and carwin will be forces and all have the potential to be top 10 in the world.
kimbo doesn't belong on that list.
8/11/08 11:28:12PM
I like the out of 100 rating system-

Shane Carwin- Right now I'd say he's in the 70s. He has shown abilities in all departments but not against a truly quality opponent yet. I think he'll top out at around 82 or 83. Were it not for his age he'd have 90's potential.

Roger Gracie- Phenomenal JJ player and young. If he trains standup and ups his straight wrestling game he'll be a solid 90+ in years to come.

Brock Lesnar- Powerhouse wrestler. He'll reach near the top (or at least appear to in the UFC) but when he faces great BJJ guys he's going to fail. Based on size and wrestling background alone he can give anyone problems, but unfortunately for him almost every top HW in the world is a great ground guy. (Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Arlovski) IMO he doesn't have enough time to develop the standup and JJ skillset to reach the 90's. I say max he'll reach is 85-88 whereas right now he's a low 70.

Cain Velasquez- Another great wrestler who is quickly upping his JJ and striking game. Not to mention phenomenal killer instinct. Very dangerous GnP and he's with the right camp to beef his JJ and standup skills. I look for Cain to be a future UFC HW champion and top 10 ranked HW fighter. Barring injuries possibly a 95 in several years (4 to 5). Not quite a Fedor or Nog, but a solid top 5 HW. Right now I put him at 80 or 81.

Antonio Silva- A lot of potential but he's in the wrong organization for developing his skillset. Fighters need to be tested and with EliteXC I don't see anybody really testing Antonio Silva. He's an 80 or so right now, but staying with EliteXC I look for that to stay the same. With better opponents and no injuries I could see him breaking the 90 plane.

Pawel Nastula- A solid low to mid 80's fighter. Capable of giving anyone problems, but not going to destroy any top competition any time soon. Little room for development due to age. I think we are seeing him at his best right now.

Kimbo Slice- A low 70's if not 60's fighter. He's doing the right things by taking the game serious, training with a legend, and slowly building himself up. Unfortunately he's got the clock and lack of a solid background working against him. He'll peak out in the 70s IMO. Wrestlers will always dominate him.
8/11/08 11:28:39PM
8/12/08 8:48:24AM
nastula is a tough fight for anyone but im not sure he even has that many more fights left in him. really tough guy with a serious ground game. he is a judo guy that concentrates on the ne waza as much as the standing grappling and as one of the best judo guys ever he could have been great in mma if he started earlier.

brock is also a tough fight for anyone already considering his size, power, and explosiveness. anyone who has the combination of that power and quickness is gonna be a tough fight for anyone even if he lacks skill outside of wrestling.

of the others, roger gracie is the one to watch imo. he has the potential to be one of the top hw's in the world imo. if he works his striking the he will be a tough match for anyone. he is probably the best pure bjj guy in the world...

cain may end up being a threat as well but i dont see a lot happening from anyone else on the list, although bigfoots size and strength will give a lot of guys problems. id like to see him fight lesnar...
8/12/08 10:30:51AM
Shane Corwin- 65/80
Kevin Ferguson (Kimbo Slice)- 45/70
Roger Gracie- 55/80
Brock Lesnar- 70/90
Pawel Nastula- 65/90
Antonio Silva- 70/85
Cain Velasquez - 65/95
8/12/08 10:45:18AM
shane carwin - loads of potential, needs help on the technical aspect of boxing, probably fight for the title over the next 3 years before he gets to old

kimbo - a joke, making a ton of cash off hype tho, so good for him, never will amount to anything "real" tho

roger gracie - lots of potential, needs help in every aspect of the game except jiu jitsu, gets the right training partners and we could see another noguier-esq fighter on our hands

brock lesnar - same as carwin with with more upside

pawla - who cares, hes old and past his day to make a mark, if he had started 5-10 years ago, maybe he'd make waves

antonio silva - once he reaches the top 10 hes gonna stay there a long time, needs to go either to the ufc or affliction to crack it tho, complete heavyweight

cain velvasquyez - the best heavyweight prospect in the game today, young enought to dominate for a long time, has all the tools and is only getting better
8/12/08 1:34:52PM
ALRIGHT LADIES. Here it is in order!


1) Antonio Silva (would kick the shit out of all on that list right now!)

2) Brock Lesner

3) Cain Valasquez

4) Shane Corwin

5) Pawel Nastula

6) Roger Gracie

7) Kimbo


1)Brock Lesner
2)Cain V.
3)Antonio Silva
4)Roger Gracie
5)Shane Corwin

that is all, lesson over.

8/12/08 3:37:56PM
I guess I should give my own list:

Based on where they are right now:

Antonio Silva (I think he can dispute the Lesnar fans who say "no guy that big can move that fast"; he's a freakish big athlete who has a well-balanced BJJ/wrestling/striking game and more experience than anyone on this list; he's not great at any one aspect but he has more ways to win than anyone else here)

Cain Velasquez (Protoype for the future HW IMO. Good power wreslting and developing a well rounded game/ Has a bit of UFC experience, but he was a college wrestler just 3 years ago meaning he doesn't have that much dedicated MMA training, which is both a negative for now and scary for the future. Not as big as some HWs, which may let guys like Lesnar take top position and I don't know how well he'll fight from there or if his gas tank and confidence will get diminished when he fights someone who can push him into the later rounds)

Pawel Nastula (I think he beats almost anybody in this lists, because Olympic level judo should be a great background for beating power wrestlers or power non-wrestlers, but as he's shown in his first 4 fights, there are a lot of styles that beat him as well. He's a thread to take top position on anybody or at least make them work for the takedown and he's more than strong enough to sweep or lock in submissions. He's fought well against guys who blow out most opponents, lasting over 8 minutes with Barnett, Nog and Alex, which I don't know if anyone else on this list could have done, but a guy who never got beat in Judo and seems to barely win in MMA obviously is lacking something mentally or physically for making a switch)

Brock Lesnar (Huge and fast with very good wrestling....and huge and fast. Beat one good fighter already, but also faltered to the power wrestler's kryptonite--a strong guy with good subs. There are a few guys at the top of the HWs who have that going for them, as do the three guys I put above him)

Shane Carwin (Big, strong, dominating guy...but I don't know how well he'd do against guys like the ones above him on this list who can probably take top position on him or against a guy who's simply durable enough to make it to the 2nd round. Less tested than anyone on this list except Roger Gracie)

Kimbo Slice (overrated by non-MMA fans, but underrated by MMA junkies...the guy has beat three experienced journeyman plus an ex-boxing champ already and Bas is singing his praises; still believe he's too old to build the type of wrestling, BJJ or cardio to compete at the highest level, but he's not doing badly so far)

Roger Gracie (one of two truly world class athletes on the list, along with Nastula. He is considered one of the three greatest sub grapplers in the game, but it's not 1995 anymore and that doesn't guarantee MMA success. Like the other two--Jacare and Garcia--he hasn't done much to convince me he'll be great at a sport than involves punching and kicking)

Based on potential:

Cain Velasquez
Antonio Silva
Brock Lesnar
Roger Gracie
Shane Carwin
Pawel Nastula
Kimbo Slice
8/12/08 6:21:55PM
I would break it down into groups...

Antonio Silva
Cain Velasquez

To me, these two have shown that they are ready for bigtime fights and can handle themselves where ever a fight may end up...

Roger Gracie
Brock Lesnar

Both have the pedigree and skill... Lesnar is a genetic freak, and Roger has been groomed and is the long awaited true HW Gracie that the familiy has been waiting for


I put in a category of his own... I think he has excellent potential as a fighter, but after his rigorous judo schedule, age, and years of being hard on his body, I just don't know if he can make it...


I think they are slightly one dimensional, and not the dimension that will give them an easy road to success like the wreslters and juijitsu player... IMO it's a lot easier to take a fight to the ground than it is to keep it standing... And their age doesn't help either...

Out of the entire lot though, I think Velasquez and Gracie will make the deepest impact on the sport's Heavyweight division
Related Topics