Randy Couture: Size will be the difference for ‘Penn vs St. Pierre 2'

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MMAcca
1/14/09 2:34:08PM
“We’ve seen the best B.J. Penn we’ve seen in recent years, but that was at 155. He had abs, he looked in shape, he had to train to be down there. The question I have is how much quality weight in this time period can he put on to deal with the size difference between him and Georges. … At that weight class, at 170, I like Georges. Georges has got all the tools. He seems to be within himself mentally, going out and putting together good performances, and demonstrating a lot of skills that nobody really knew he had. There’s some tough things for B.J. to deal with there.”






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cmill21
1/14/09 2:37:19PM
I agree with him, but I don't really want GSP to win since if he wins it'll most likely be a LnP.
colescar
1/14/09 2:38:36PM
This is one of the hardest fights for me to pick. I love both fighters, and think they are pretty equal. I would give the advantage to GSP like Couture said, because it is Penn coming up in weight. I don't think people realize what a difference that can make in a fighter. That said, Penn is an amazingly talented guy. I'm excited, and either way it goes I just hope its as exciting a fight as it should be.
kasual
1/14/09 2:50:03PM
For sure size is a factor, both men appear to be in the best condition of their career. I think Penn really tuned his physique for 155, I hope he can make the jump to 170 by adding meaningful size and strength. Otherwise, GSP is going to be all over him. Of course where GSP has strength and conditioning, Penn is one of the most heavy handed strikers in the game, and his BJJ skills makes laying on top of him a dangerous proposition. I think the deciding factor will really be whose mental game is correct, both guys have a history of it, GSP especially. Whoever comes in with the game plan and the mental fortitude to stick to it can probably pull this one out. With Greg Jackson being the mastermind behind GSP's game plan I see that being a HUGE advantage for him. One of the most exciting fights in memory, as a Canadian I'm pulling for GSP. As a fan, I don't want to see one man defending both belts, both 155 and 170 are stacked, it would be a disservice to the fighters in those weight classes and the fans if BJ was defending both belts.
StevieC
1/14/09 2:56:29PM

Posted by cmill21

I agree with him, but I don't really want GSP to win since if he wins it'll most likely be a LnP.



When have you ever seen GSP just lay and pray? Their last fight wasn't won like that....

GSP is going to win because he is a better fighter, that's why he beat him the last time too.....
HumanTarget
1/14/09 3:12:13PM
Since when has Gsp LnP'd? Never, so stop saying that. Its gonna be an exicting fight were two fighters go toe to toe and then a some GnP action. Its not gonna be a blanket match.
decken
1/14/09 3:19:23PM

Posted by StevieC


Posted by cmill21

I agree with him, but I don't really want GSP to win since if he wins it'll most likely be a LnP.



When have you ever seen GSP just lay and pray? Their last fight wasn't won like that....

GSP is going to win because he is a better fighter, that's why he beat him the last time too.....




No, GSP won last time because Penn gassed after the first round. Re-watch the fight. Also you can not definitively say GSP is a better fighter because he won a split decision. Thirdly if that fight would have been in pride Penn would have won without a doubt.
kasual
1/14/09 3:28:51PM

Posted by decken


Posted by StevieC


Posted by cmill21

I agree with him, but I don't really want GSP to win since if he wins it'll most likely be a LnP.



When have you ever seen GSP just lay and pray? Their last fight wasn't won like that....

GSP is going to win because he is a better fighter, that's why he beat him the last time too.....




No, GSP won last time because Penn gassed after the first round. Re-watch the fight. Also you can not definitively say GSP is a better fighter because he won a split decision. Thirdly if that fight would have been in pride Penn would have won without a doubt.



I agree about not saying that GSP is the better fighter by any means. The way I see it, BJ is probably the best pound for pound if he wins this, a champion in two different weight classes is unprecedented and isn't that what a best pound for pound should be. If GSP stepped up to 185 and was a contender there that would be something else. And yes BJ did gas in that fight, but he did lots of damage to GSP before that and if his tank didn't run dry I believe he would have won that fight. What was it that BJ said after that fight? 'How do I know I won the fight? Because after the fight he went to the hospital and I went to the club'. I know that hyperbole, but it's still pretty funny.
cmill21
1/14/09 3:32:07PM
Well is GSP going to KO BJ? Proabaly not. Will he submit him? Definetly not. So how will he win? Out wrestling him is the answer.
EvenFlow
1/14/09 3:33:52PM
Everyone always takes what Randy says like hes a prophet, hes been wrong before and I think hes wrong again. BJ, a guy whos more dangerous everywhere the fight is than GSP minus kicks and wrestling dosnt have the upper hand because of size? thats preposterous, MMA has proved that smaller guys can win regularly and this is why I'd like to widen up the weight classes just a bit. We will see the best BJ Penn ever and thats too much for GSP unfortunatly, he will put up a good fight but his chin, striking technique and BJJ isnt up to par with BJ. GSP needs a LnP which he seems to do these days but I could see him standing for the fear of being submitted which could likely happen with BJ under you.

EDIT:
BIGKAT
1/14/09 3:40:14PM
BJ Will own GSP!
Wolfenstein
1/14/09 3:53:44PM
I agree with Randy, size is going to play a major factor. George cuts a lot of weight. I've heard he walks around at about 190-200lbs. Bj's a natural 155'r when he's in shape. I'm just not sure how BJ is going to be able to deal with the gap in strength. It will make it really difficult to lock a submission on George and keep him from powering out.

If BJ's going to win it has to be on the feet. George has more dynamic standup, and does a good job of mixing it up with punches, kicks, superman punches, etc. BJ's hands are much faster though. In their last fight it seemed like BJ was always landing with the much cleaner shots in the exchanges. It's tough at this point to really gauge how good GSP's chin is, but I'll go out on a limb and say BJ's is probably the better of the two, and if they start getting into punch-for-punch exchanges George is eventually going down.

The standup is where I think George faces the most danger, so I expect him to at least in the first few rounds to take BJ down, and apply pressure. I don't think we'll see George posturing up and trying to land bombs from top position. Instead he's going to allow no space, and keep his entire body weight on BJ, and deliver some rabbit punches. Hopefully BJ will tire out on the bottom and become less dangerous on the feet and George can open it up in the later rounds.

BJ wants this fight on his feet. His boxing has improved dramatically, and in their last fight he was really succesful in the exchanges. He lost their last bout by being on the bottom, so I fully expect that if he gets taken down he's going to be working back up to his feet, rather than being patient and waiting for an opening to submit George that might never come.
grappler0000
1/14/09 4:10:39PM

Posted by cmill21

Well is GSP going to KO BJ? Proabaly not. Will he submit him? Definetly not. So how will he win? Out wrestling him is the answer.



If you said that he would win with his wrestling, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. The term Lay N Pray is a derogatory term for a wrestler (that doesn't have much else to offer) does during a fight...obviously GSP doesn't fit that description. I don't think it's probable that GSP can finish BJ...but if he does, it would probably be GnP in the later rounds. Georges is great at every aspect of fighting...and while BJ is good enough to negate much of his striking and submission prowess, using the term LnP is not warranted...and as a result, it would at least appear that you're taking a jab at his abilities.
Pitbull09
1/14/09 4:19:33PM
I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves
colescar
1/14/09 5:10:20PM

Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight




I completely agree. Size is defiantly a factor. Not just size, but who is pushing to make (or cut) size.
sparky
1/14/09 5:15:35PM
Georges is going to destroy BJ in this fight. He is a more complete MMA fighter and has a size advantaged not to mention he is a much better athlete.

My Pick: St.Pierre / 4th Rd / KO-TKO
xAcidburNx
1/14/09 6:51:38PM
i know everyone will think im crazy for saying this. but i kinna see gsp winning by sub in the champ rounds. his bjj has looked awesom the past little while and i dont believe bj has what it takes to go all five rounds. sure he looked great at lightweight but no one pushed him even a little. he just had his way with them. when hes got gsp on his ass from start to finish. he'll gas for sure. then out comes the powerhouse type sub. its a long shot i know lol but im goin for it. they should give underdog points for guessing gsp by sub. thatd be kewl
im2fast4u1981
1/14/09 7:29:01PM
This fight is so hard 2 call for numerous reasons...B.J. was controling him until he got tired the first time...My pick is B.J.....If GSP wins i think it will be his cardio and wrestling that makes the difference...But B.J has outstanding takedown defense and sorry people GSP is not at BJs level on the ground.................
motorboatensob
1/14/09 7:36:07PM

Posted by HumanTarget

Since when has Gsp LnP'd? Never, so stop saying that. Its gonna be an exicting fight were two fighters go toe to toe and then a some GnP action. Its not gonna be a blanket match.




Lets see there last fight he couldn't do any thing but lay on top of him. Its funny that Randy would say size will be a factor when it was him that said he had trouble take BJ down and holding him there.
StriderXero
1/14/09 8:10:02PM
BJ's my favorite fighter, but I'm not going to say this is going to be an easy win for him. But I also dont believe it'll be an easy win for GSP. This fight for me is so unpredictable, it's not even funny.

I say if Penn wins, it'll be him winning the first 3 rounds, and holding GSP off for the last 2 rounds.

But I'm thinking GSP will probably take this one. God this is so hard to predict.
I'm thinking this will go like the Hendo/ Rampage fight. With a faster pace.
StevieC
1/14/09 9:27:55PM
You know, I was at fault for saying it myself but we should really throw there last fight out the door because both BJ and GSP are better fighters now then they were then...

Also, everyone needs to stop saying BJ gased, BJ gased. He gases every fight, that's what he does....it's part of his game, in WW anyway. He didnt gas as a LW. Most of the time he wins anyway, even if he does gas...He would tell you himself not to use that as an excuse...


This is going to be an amazing fight and I don't think I have looked forward to a fight more.

GSP via UD

But would love to see him KO or submit.....

Givershit
1/14/09 9:38:46PM

Posted by cmill21

Will he submit him?



Yup. GSP takes people down at what they do best.

George by 3rd round submission
bls1919
1/14/09 10:31:55PM
I agree with Randy on this one. GSP phsyicality will determine the outcome of this fight. If he can impose his will on Penn it will be a repeat of the first fight. Penn does have three straight wins. Pulver , Stevenson, and Sherk. All second teir fighters in my eyes. Even his fight with Sherk. I see Sean as a limited figher and if you take his strength away he is toast. GSP is twice if not 3 times the fighter of all of BJ's last opponents since their last meeting, even Hughes. Bj only lose since then is to Hughes. A fight in which the bigger fighter won. GSP wil rule Penn and i can't wait until he does.
Aether
1/15/09 1:45:09AM
I can't believe how much some people are underestimating BJ, especially his BJJ. GSP is good on the ground, but I really doubt he's going to sub BJ. Anything is possible I suppose but BJ isn't just a black belt, he's a world champion, and a particularly good one. He's so flexible and he knows jiujitsu on a level where he can sub other black belts regularly it seems pretty unlikely that he's going to get caught out.

To say that either fighter will destroy the other is foolish, IMO. BJ has never been destroyed by anyone. His loss to GSP was a split, his loss to Hughes came after an injury while he was winning the fight, and he lost a decision to a LHW who is still undefeated and arguably near the top of the most stacked division in the sport... I just don't understand how anyone can possibly say that GSP will destroy him.

GSP might win the fight, but "destroy" him? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion with the evidence you have. The guy has never been finished by anyone aside from when his ribs separated, and that isn't really a legit TKO in my mind. A top 205er wasn't able to finish him, or even really come close. Granted Machida takes a lot of decisions but he has stoppages over a few strong opponents and in many of his decisions he comes quite close to finishing as in the Ortiz fight. He also outweighed him by about 35 pounds, has longer reach, and better standup than GSP.

If GSP is able to finish the fight I think it will only be by GnP during the late rounds, and I doubt that the early rounds will be one sided at all.
BIGKAT
1/15/09 3:17:23AM

Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves



Yea, there was no way Royce Gracie could beat 3-4 fighters a night that were all larger than him.

And, I dont know about you, but I've never worried about whether a guy was in my weight class should a fight break out.... I've seen first hand that it doesnt matter how big someone is when they get blasted in the mouth,

Size isn't as important as you might think... anyone who has watched UFC since the beginning should know that by now. BJ is by far and away a better all around fighter than GSP, regardless of size, and it'll be proven soon
cmill21
1/15/09 3:21:20AM

Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves



BJ has fought at 205, against Machida...So I really don't think it's at all similar lol. Also, there are lots of people who feel Anderson would win that fight lol.
Aether
1/15/09 4:48:17AM

Posted by BIGKAT


Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves



Yea, there was no way Royce Gracie could beat 3-4 fighters a night that were all larger than him.

And, I dont know about you, but I've never worried about whether a guy was in my weight class should a fight break out.... I've seen first hand that it doesnt matter how big someone is when they get blasted in the mouth,

Size isn't as important as you might think... anyone who has watched UFC since the beginning should know that by now. BJ is by far and away a better all around fighter than GSP, regardless of size, and it'll be proven soon



This argument has a big logical loophole and I've been hearing it a lot lately, so I'm going to debunk it.

Modern MMA is not comparable to the first UFC events. There were 350 pound sumo wrestlers, dudes punching each other in the nuts, pulling hair, and coming into the ring with single boxing gloves taped to their hands in the earliest events. You can't take that and compare it to the best fighters at the peak of their game in modern MMA.

Size doesn't matter when there is a distinct skill gap between the fighters, but when the fighters are at an incredibly similar skill level, smaller differences become massively important. The same way that an olympic swimmer will shave all of the hair off of their body and wear a swim cap to make themselves more aerodynamic to shave 0.01 seconds off of their overall time. Well if they're racing you it really doesn't matter, but when they're racing people who are just as good as them, every minuscule difference becomes a large one and that 0.01 can easily make the difference between gold and silver.

The same logic applies to fighting. Yes GSP and BJ Penn can beat the shit out of any random 240 pound man you might find at a gym, but does that mean that they have an equal chance to beat Fedor? This argument essentially alleges that weight classes make no difference.

In this fight I don't think it will be a huge difference, but it will make a difference and since both fighters are so good, that could easily be enough to give GSP the edge. It means that GSP can push the pace harder than a smaller fighter would be able to. BJ will have to expend a greater amount of energy to stuff his takedowns, eat and dodge his shots, and to control him on the ground. He also isn't bulky enough that he trades speed for his size, he still moves as fast as any lightweight.
jakeiceman
1/15/09 8:05:40AM

Posted by Aether


Posted by BIGKAT


Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves



Yea, there was no way Royce Gracie could beat 3-4 fighters a night that were all larger than him.

And, I dont know about you, but I've never worried about whether a guy was in my weight class should a fight break out.... I've seen first hand that it doesnt matter how big someone is when they get blasted in the mouth,

Size isn't as important as you might think... anyone who has watched UFC since the beginning should know that by now. BJ is by far and away a better all around fighter than GSP, regardless of size, and it'll be proven soon





but does that mean that they have an equal chance to beat Fedor?

He also isn't bulky enough that he trades speed for his size, he still moves as fast as any lightweight.



I would pick BJ to beat 15 silverback gorillas while wearing a banana suit, so yeah I would give him just as good of chance as anyone to beat Fedor, actually I would give him better odds than most.

GSP has an icredible shot, but he really isn't that "fast" otherwise. He is athletic and i think he adapts to his opponents moves well but I think BJ has the better head movement and by far the faster hands.

StevieC
1/15/09 8:50:19AM

Posted by BIGKAT


Posted by Pitbull09

I have been arguing this but it seems like a dead reason in the forums. It makes sense that GSP at 170 is going to beat a guy whos best at 155. Its similar to saying Anderson Silva would destroy Fedor at HW. It would be completely different for him cause its not a natural weight

If Penn wins, he will learn this division is to big for him when he fights Alves



Yea, there was no way Royce Gracie could beat 3-4 fighters a night that were all larger than him.

And, I dont know about you, but I've never worried about whether a guy was in my weight class should a fight break out.... I've seen first hand that it doesnt matter how big someone is when they get blasted in the mouth,

Size isn't as important as you might think... anyone who has watched UFC since the beginning should know that by now. BJ is by far and away a better all around fighter than GSP, regardless of size, and it'll be proven soon



When Gracie fought, nobody knew BJJ and rules were extreamly different then they are now. And the fighters are a lot different now. If you would bring Gracie from back then and fight the top 20 WW now he wouldn't win one of them.....

And how is BJ a better all around fighter? Forget the fact that he has already lost to GSP.......

I like BJ but all this BJ nuthugging just gets ridiculas sometimes.....
Aether
1/15/09 9:01:00AM
so by the same logic, Brock Lesnar's size is not an advantage? Wow... I mean I don't even know what to say. Weight classes exist for a reason. You'll never hear a fighter making this argument, and there's a reason for that. I don't understand how someone can argue that weight classes don't matter and speed and power are not advantages in a fight.

If you believe this there's not much point in continuing this discussion because I'm obviously not going to change your mind about it...
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