Rampage Thinks Spinning Elbows And Oblique Kicks Should Be Made Illegal

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POLL: Kicks to the Knee??? (oblique kicks)
Keep em 62% (29)
Ban em 38% (18)
postman
1/23/13 3:07:56PM
Link

“It should be called the illegal kick. It should be banned and it shows a lot about the fighter’s character that he would throw it. How would he like it if somebody threw it at him and stopped him working for a year? I thought it was an illegal move. I think spinning elbows should be illegal too because they land on the back of the head. But I appreciate a good fight, a good scrap, I just wonder which rule fighters will bend next.”


- Rampage Jackson via ESPN.


I think the spinning elbow should only be illegal if it actually hits the back of the head. I hate those kicks the knee is a tuff joint to repair there is no reason IMO to have a legal attack aimed at destroying it.

Pretty simple poll how do you feel?


FastKnockout
1/23/13 3:15:54PM
I'm not too fond of the kick either.
Theoutlaw08
1/23/13 3:21:04PM
I am fine with both. I think they are both good tools to have in a striking arsenal. The spinning elbow is devasting when landed, its similar to the spinning backfist, so those would need to be illegal too. Rampage wants them illegal because he cant defend either one. Rampage - If you want a sport that doesnt have kicks and elbows, make the fucking move to boxing. So sick of him!
Twenty20Dollars
1/23/13 3:40:33PM
Kicks to the knee, no. Could scew up people's knees and we don't need anymore injuries.

But, why should Rampage care if he is seemingly on his way out of MMA?
SmileR
1/23/13 3:44:13PM

Posted by Theoutlaw08

I am fine with both. I think they are both good tools to have in a striking arsenal. The spinning elbow is devasting when landed, its similar to the spinning backfist, so those would need to be illegal too. Rampage wants them illegal because he cant defend either one. Rampage - If you want a sport that doesnt have kicks and elbows, make the fucking move to boxing. So sick of him!



Rampage can defend against spinning elbows better than most. But I don't see the need to ban them, but I do agree with the oblique kicks. A well timed one could end someones career.
I've been to a few places that will only teach them in self defence classes and flat out refuse to let people practice them on anything other than a dummy. Never once been taught or showed them in training though they can literally fold a knee the wrong way.
postman
1/23/13 3:47:13PM
I found it funny that Page is worried about a spinning elbow hitting the back of the head yet he is most famous for trying to put the back of Aronas head through the canvas!
tcunningham
1/23/13 3:52:35PM
i say ban the the kicks to the knee. what other reason is there for throwing that kick other than to injure the knee joint. we dont need any more torn ACL's in the ufc. as for the spinning elbows, let them stay. they cant be any more dangerous than a regular elbow or standing knees to the head from the plum.
grappler0000
1/23/13 4:05:13PM
Head kicks often hit the back of the head/neck as well. Should we ban them?
Chael_Sonnen
1/23/13 4:14:42PM
*****BREAKING NEWS!!!*****

ramPAGE also thinks that speaking intelligently and coherently + driving on freeways should be banned.

ramPAGE thinks that showing up to a fist fight and actually fighting should be BANNED.

rampPAGE thinks that every sentence that he garbles should end with the phrase 'know what I'm sayin'?'

ramPAGE actually thinks that King Mo is an actual King
infestructure
1/23/13 4:57:23PM
You should get a warning for targeting a knee with a kick. I've seen a few bad knee injuries. Imo it's like small digit manipulation, very damaging in the long term.

That being said, these guys are punching each other in the face for a living.
Lungsofsteel
1/23/13 5:10:45PM

Posted by tcunningham

i say ban the the kicks to the knee. what other reason is there for throwing that kick other than to injure the knee joint. we dont need any more torn ACL's in the ufc. as for the spinning elbows, let them stay. they cant be any more dangerous than a regular elbow or standing knees to the head from the plum.



I agree with you 100%. Ban those kicks. The spinning elbows are fine.
jaguar_paw
1/23/13 5:14:09PM
Why is a kick to the knee called an "oblique" kick?

To me, and "oblique" kick would be to the side of the stomach below the rib cage.

Just curious if this is another case of Rampage not knowing things or if this is a MMA term I have never heard before.
Theoutlaw08
1/23/13 5:25:11PM

Posted by SmileR


Posted by Theoutlaw08

I am fine with both. I think they are both good tools to have in a striking arsenal. The spinning elbow is devasting when landed, its similar to the spinning backfist, so those would need to be illegal too. Rampage wants them illegal because he cant defend either one. Rampage - If you want a sport that doesnt have kicks and elbows, make the fucking move to boxing. So sick of him!



Rampage can defend against spinning elbows better than most. But I don't see the need to ban them, but I do agree with the oblique kicks. A well timed one could end someones career.
I've been to a few places that will only teach them in self defence classes and flat out refuse to let people practice them on anything other than a dummy. Never once been taught or showed them in training though they can literally fold a knee the wrong way.



Im sorry, I thought the arguement was for oblique kicks (which is a kick to the midsection/body shot/liver shot) which is why I said i am fine with the kick. Now that i know its for a knee kick, i completely agree, a knee kick should be banned.
airkerma
1/23/13 7:06:39PM
I think the kick should stay, but I can't really justify my position any further than comparing them what could happen in certain submissions, which isn't exactly the same situation.
BeeR
1/23/13 7:11:51PM
if they banned Oblique Kicks because they cause injuries they would have to remove all knee bars, ankle locks, arm bars, kimuras, and pretty much every submission there is. Might as well ban all kicks since blocking them can cause injuries, while we're at it, throw on some big ol'boxing gloves............wait a minute....thats pretty much exactly what Rampage wants.

go to boxing already!
Poor_Franklin
1/23/13 7:18:16PM
i hate seeing them, but dont think they should ban them
Bubbles
1/23/13 7:36:25PM
Ban the knee kicks, spinning kicks are fine
State_Champ
1/23/13 8:09:46PM
People hating on the knee kicks? I didn't expect that.

My thinking may be flawed here, but if a fighter can kick his or her opponent in the head then I think kicking him or her in the knee ought to be allowed.

Neither am I convinced that an oblique kick is designed to destroy the knee. My understanding is that it works best to simply mess with an opponent's footwork, not break his knee joint.

Spinning elbows ought to be illegal if they land on the back of the head.
And I think, in general, refs need to be much less lenient on allowing strikes to the back of the head so long as they're illegal.
frizzzlecake
1/23/13 11:36:49PM
I never liked those kicks and think they should be banned. ACL/Knee injuries can destroy a fighter's career and like we protect fighter's from back of the head strikes, we should protect their knees from being blown out.


I honestly think it's going to take a terrible knee injury for the rule to change.


Spinning Elbows should stay though, Rampage just mad his T-Rex Arms can't throw em.
State_Champ
1/24/13 9:51:35AM

Posted by frizzzlecake

I never liked those kicks and think they should be banned. ACL/Knee injuries can destroy a fighter's career and like we protect fighter's from back of the head strikes, we should protect their knees from being blown out.


I honestly think it's going to take a terrible knee injury for the rule to change.




Have there been any terrible knee injuries from oblique kicks in MMA?
Sure there could be eventually, but have there been? That would provide some evidence against my position that they ought to be legal.

However, even if there were an injury from the oblique kick, MMA still allows knee bars, and heel hooks despite injuries.
Furthermore, During the first round of Jones vs Vera, Jones threw an elbow that fractured Vera's face in three places. It also severed a nerve and lodged a chip of bone behind his right eyeball, but people don't seem to be calling for grounded elbows to be banned.

I think y'all have an irrational fear of knees being kicked at.

That is, irrational in relation to your seeming indifference to a number of other dangerous martial arts maneuvers.

airkerma
1/24/13 10:04:30AM
You make good points about the hellbows, SC, but knee bar and heel hooks don't hold the same weight, despite being the same location as oblique kicks. Unless there is a rabid gorilla attached to your leg (this has happened in the UFC) you always have the chance to tap, preventing the damage. You can absolutely jack someone's arm up with an over extended kimura, Big Nog may have been lucky with the arm snap, instead of ripping everything in his shoulder. This doesn't change the fact that you can tap if it's getting ugly, whereas with the kicks you don;t have that option.
jaguar_paw
1/24/13 11:23:31AM
The problem is that front kicks are a key part of MMA. They are good at keeping the distance, and they can mess up the footwork when fighting a guy taking a traditional boxing stance.... front leg way out in front.
The more and more strikes you take away from a fight, the less it becomes a fight and the more tools you take away from a guy to finish a fight.

However, I guess if you don't really like watching a "fight" and you want to watch more and more fights go to boring decisions of either LnP or pitter patter boxing matches.... then sure, ban them all.
Boo_Radley21
1/24/13 11:43:01AM
I agree they should be banned. It's dangerous and I have always hated seeing them. Sooner or later someones leg is breaking
Poor_Franklin
1/24/13 1:35:27PM

Posted by Boo_Radley21

I agree they should be banned. It's dangerous and I have always hated seeing them. Sooner or later someones leg is breaking



if a middle tier fighter has their leg broken, they'll say he needs to learn to defend it properly, but if someone broke Jon Jones or Cain Velasquez's leg, they'd change that rule in a heartbeat.
TheShaman
1/24/13 2:52:18PM
I wondered for years why nobody used them (the kicks). I wondered how professional fighters didn't know about them, since I discovered them on my own in high school without any training. I would tell my friends how effective it was, they would never believe me, so they always ended up on the ground holding their knee saying "you broke my knee", but they were fine a few minutes later

Now that I see them in action on a professional level, I do wonder how they are legal. It also shows how tough the fighters are, since that kick from an untrained person immobilizes an average person for up to five minutes.

I wonder if perception of the kick would change if they called it a "knee stomp". Has anyone tried using it in the clinch? It seems like that would be the perfect time to use it. I can only remember seeing it used at a distance.
State_Champ
1/24/13 4:04:04PM

Posted by TheShaman

I wondered for years why nobody used them (the kicks). I wondered how professional fighters didn't know about them, since I discovered them on my own in high school without any training. I would tell my friends how effective it was, they would never believe me, so they always ended up on the ground holding their knee saying "you broke my knee", but they were fine a few minutes later

Now that I see them in action on a professional level, I do wonder how they are legal. It also shows how tough the fighters are, since that kick from an untrained person immobilizes an average person for up to five minutes.

I wonder if perception of the kick would change if they called it a "knee stomp". Has anyone tried using it in the clinch? It seems like that would be the perfect time to use it. I can only remember seeing it used at a distance.



I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.
TheShaman
1/24/13 4:40:34PM

Posted by State_Champ

I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.




People knee and foot stomp without getting taken down. I guess it depends on the fighter and the situation, and their abilities.

That kick is essentially an angled stomp, so if you can lift your leg up to knee, you can bring it down to "stomp" at an angle, or so it seems to me. I would think that would be even more devastating because of the more optimal angle to the knee.

Would I be taken down... I would have a lot more than that done to me because I haven't trained to fight for my entire life like most professional fighters. We are talking about actual fighters though, so we can only speculate until it happens.

I think it's telling that Jones used it a number of times (though not in the clinch), since he is known to try new things and improvise in the cage. I think he realized how effective it was in training, and that there was no rule against it, so he used it when most other fighters stick to what they know and don't necessarily try new things.
prophecy033
1/24/13 4:57:50PM

Posted by Lungsofsteel


Posted by tcunningham

i say ban the the kicks to the knee. what other reason is there for throwing that kick other than to injure the knee joint. we dont need any more torn ACL's in the ufc. as for the spinning elbows, let them stay. they cant be any more dangerous than a regular elbow or standing knees to the head from the plum.



I agree with you 100%. Ban those kicks. The spinning elbows are fine.

State_Champ
1/24/13 6:15:23PM

Posted by TheShaman


Posted by State_Champ

I think you'd likely get taken down if you tried that "knee stomp" from the clinch in the UFC.




People knee and foot stomp without getting taken down. I guess it depends on the fighter and the situation, and their abilities.

That kick is essentially an angled stomp, so if you can lift your leg up to knee, you can bring it down to "stomp" at an angle, or so it seems to me. I would think that would be even more devastating because of the more optimal angle to the knee.

Would I be taken down... I would have a lot more than that done to me because I haven't trained to fight for my entire life like most professional fighters. We are talking about actual fighters though, so we can only speculate until it happens.

I think it's telling that Jones used it a number of times (though not in the clinch), since he is known to try new things and improvise in the cage. I think he realized how effective it was in training, and that there was no rule against it, so he used it when most other fighters stick to what they know and don't necessarily try new things.



Could be you're right. I don't reckon I know for sure.
It seemed to me like lifting a leg up and putting the foot on an opponent's knee would lead to a very compromising position. However, you bring up a good point about the effectiveness of knees in the clinch.
BeeR
1/24/13 6:15:53PM

Posted by airkerma

You make good points about the hellbows, SC, but knee bar and heel hooks don't hold the same weight, despite being the same location as oblique kicks. Unless there is a rabid gorilla attached to your leg (this has happened in the UFC) you always have the chance to tap, preventing the damage. You can absolutely jack someone's arm up with an over extended kimura, Big Nog may have been lucky with the arm snap, instead of ripping everything in his shoulder. This doesn't change the fact that you can tap if it's getting ugly, whereas with the kicks you don;t have that option.



and how many fighters have tapped and still had their arm broken, knee torn, shoulder jacked? many.

the intent of a submission is to break or tear whatever you are holding, NOT to make a guy tap, if you're pussy footing a submission hold, you're doing it wrong.
If you lock on an arm bar ,you're breaking it or the ref is stopping you, you're not trying to apply juuuuuuust enough pressure to just make the guy tap out, if you are, you were taught wrong
Take it home, or dont grab it.
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