Rampage

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nubby
4/3/07 2:25:15PM
It has been said that Rampage hasn't bee the same fighter since his change to Christianity. I don't know if I agree with this but the question remains is Rampage the same fighter he was when he beat Chuck Liddell? Since fighting Chuck, Rampage has lost to W. Silva and M. Rua. Were those huge losses an impact on his ability to fight? Lastly, what are the strengths of both Chuck and Rampage and what are their weaknesses going into this fight?
warglory
4/3/07 2:35:41PM
I will never personally understand why people begin to doubt the performance capabilities of fighters just because they lose some key matches. Look, someone has to lose in a match, that is an empirical fact for most orgs that don't allow draws. Rampage has fought the best of the best and in his time as a fighter he has won and lost. To say that Rampage has lost his spark just because he has lost to some major players is a little shallow in my opinion, and this happens all too often with fans of this sport. Both Rampage and Liddell will have their hands full and will undoubtedly both have their heads in this critical match. I for one will think it will be a likely candidate for fight of the year.

(Note to nubby, this wasn't directed towards you, just a general statement )
loller90278
4/3/07 2:43:31PM
i don't think christianity has anything to do with it..

rampage just couldn't and didn't know how to defend the clinch, and got taken advantage of by the chute box boys..

fortunatly, chuck hasn't shown his muy thai clinch in around...all of his fights..

rampage by ko 4R
pv3Hpv3p
4/3/07 2:46:37PM

Posted by warglory

I will never personally understand why people begin to doubt the performance capabilities of fighters just because they lose some key matches. Look, someone has to lose in a match, that is an empirical fact for most orgs that don't allow draws. Rampage has fought the best of the best and in his time as a fighter he has won and lost. To say that Rampage has lost his spark just because he has lost to some major players is a little shallow in my opinion, and this happens all too often with fans of this sport. Both Rampage and Liddell will have their hands full and will undoubtedly both have their heads in this critical match. I for one will think it will be a likely candidate for fight of the year.

(Note to nubby, this wasn't directed towards you, just a general statement )



A lot of people will say that Page was 'ruined' by his fights with Wand and Rua because when he came back to compete it really seemed like he lost a little of his edge... Of that killer instinct that made him the fighter that he was...

With that being said... I think this is only temperary, depending on the fighter... I think we'll all agree that there is a very trying, strategic mental side to the fight game, not just striking and grappling...

I agree with most of your statement though... I think both fighters will have this fight on their mind up until the end of May(?) and it will be a war...

Forseeing this as a fight of the year candidate is not a stretch of the imagination by any means.
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 3:54:09PM
He never lost his potential. He lost the urge to be tha champ... just like tito and liddell.... hes proven he cant beat the best in the business so what do you think that will do to your enthusiasm? You wake up in the morning and train just to be second best... that would definitely have a toll on me...

as far as strengths go... Jackson is still great with the hands. But liddell is even better. Chuck liddell did NOT complete his training before their first fight, which is obvious seeing chuck gas halfway into the fight. Now Liddell is stronger, bigger gas tank, steel chin, and has much better footwork. Plus he has all the motivation in the world....Avenge a fight, keep the belt, and keep the winning streak going...
nubby
4/3/07 4:09:09PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

He never lost his potential. He lost the urge to be tha champ... just like tito and liddell.... hes proven he cant beat the best in the business so what do you think that will do to your enthusiasm? You wake up in the morning and train just to be second best... that would definitely have a toll on me...

as far as strengths go... Jackson is still great with the hands. But liddell is even better. Chuck liddell did NOT complete his training before their first fight, which is obvious seeing chuck gas halfway into the fight. Now Liddell is stronger, bigger gas tank, steel chin, and has much better footwork. Plus he has all the motivation in the world....Avenge a fight, keep the belt, and keep the winning streak going...



I always thought of Chuck's stamina as his weakness. He definitely doesn't concentrate on cardio as much as he should. Yes no?
pv3Hpv3p
4/3/07 4:12:06PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

He never lost his potential. He lost the urge to be tha champ... just like tito and liddell.... hes proven he cant beat the best in the business so what do you think that will do to your enthusiasm? You wake up in the morning and train just to be second best... that would definitely have a toll on me...

as far as strengths go... Jackson is still great with the hands. But liddell is even better. Chuck liddell did NOT complete his training before their first fight, which is obvious seeing chuck gas halfway into the fight. Now Liddell is stronger, bigger gas tank, steel chin, and has much better footwork. Plus he has all the motivation in the world....Avenge a fight, keep the belt, and keep the winning streak going...



The biggest thing that Rampage has going for him in this fight is the fact that he doesn't fear Chucks punching power... He took plenty of shots from Chuck in their first fight and they amazingly had little to no efect on the Q...

IMO, that is one of the best weapons against a great striker... Being able to take their best shots and keep going...

Case in point, look at Gomi's reaction when Diaz wasn't KO's by that big right in the first... You could almost see that it took a lot of the fight right out of him... You can see the same effects on Chuck in their first fight... After a while, you just start looking at the guy wondering what you have to do?
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 4:20:34PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

The biggest thing that Rampage has going for him in this fight is the fact that he doesn't fear Chucks punching power... He took plenty of shots from Chuck in their first fight and they amazingly had little to no efect on the Q...

IMO, that is one of the best weapons against a great striker... Being able to take their best shots and keep going...

Case in point, look at Gomi's reaction when Diaz wasn't KO's by that big right in the first... You could almost see that it took a lot of the fight right out of him... You can see the same effects on Chuck in their first fight... After a while, you just start looking at the guy wondering what you have to do?



i attribute a lot of that due to the lack of conditioning before the fight... he was really only able to go full on for just a couple of minutes... jackson never felt the full extent of chucks power.

actually i think rampages biggest chance of beating liddell is to take him down and GnP but liddell has prooven that is just not gonna happen to him...
hcazlekker
4/3/07 4:25:04PM
I disagree with Jackson christian rebirth as his downfall. In fact, I think his first loss to Silva is what sparked his Christian rebirth. Silva did a number on Jackson's confidence and esteem. Those KOs were brutal.

Here's my perspective. A win over Liddell for Jackson would allow Jackson to reclaim the status he had before his matches with Silva. Imo, this incentive is enough for Jackson to train to his full potential. Its almost like a new start for Jackson (in the UFC). I doubt he will let this opportunity pass.

I think Jackson will reclaim his status... I'll be taking wagers when this fight gets posted
johny_rotten
4/3/07 4:36:09PM
I think Rampage's troubles were mainly due to the amount of punishment he took from Chuck, and Wandy in a short amount of time. I would also credit losing twice to the champ affecting his confidence on why Quinton hasn't been as impressive. Talk to any fighter in the world, and they will tell you ego/confidence is one of the most important ingredients to being a fighter.

Now he has put together a good amount of wins in a row. He has figured out his training partner problem, and has come to a new organazation. I would be shocked if we don't see Rampage as hungry, and improved when he gets in the octagon with Chuck.

War Quinton!!! I too will take any bets against Quinton.
randyleprechaun
4/3/07 4:52:16PM

Posted by loller90278

i don't think christianity has anything to do with it..

rampage just couldn't and didn't know how to defend the clinch, and got taken advantage of by the chute box boys..

fortunatly, chuck hasn't shown his muy thai clinch in around...all of his fights..

rampage by ko 4R



Man i agree. Stlyes make fights, and in my opinion Rampage is a bad match-up for Chuck.

Hes got almost super-human strength, an iron-chin, great boxing & kickboxing skills, good wrestling and powerful slams!

I see this fight going pretty much the same as the first one with a Round 3 k-o win for Rampage!

As for Christianity being to blame for some of his poor performances.

BULLS**T!

I would put that more down to the fact his muay thai training partners for the Chute Boxe fights weren't up to scratch, and after those two devastating losses his confidence took a battering aswell!
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 5:02:16PM
well when this fight is over.... if rampage wins ill admit chuck is not the best 205'er in the world...... if rampage loses everyone admits rampage is not and never has been a top contender....

dstlvb
4/3/07 5:13:37PM
One fight doesnt take define your whole career. If Chuck loses he isstill going to be right where he is at. We will have to see how he loses or wins. If he even loses. Chuck loses and wins the rematch takes out Rua and maybe wandy. Still tops. Loses and wins rematch loses a close split Descsion to Rua, is he still not considered one of the best. I think Rampage is the defintion of a top contender. A guy that has fought some of the best in the world and barring the Wandy fights could have won any of those. Thats a contender in my book. If he wins those we dont call him a contender. We call him champion
hcazlekker
4/3/07 5:13:44PM
Chuck is the top 205'er in the world? Says who?

Quinton was never a contender? How'd he get those matches against Silva?

mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 5:15:50PM

Posted by hcazlekker

Chuck is the top 205'er in the world? Says who?

Quinton was never a contender? How'd he get those matches against Silva?




me and there werent enough top 205 contenders when he got those fights....
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 5:20:06PM

Posted by dstlvb

One fight doesnt take define your whole career. If Chuck loses he isstill going to be right where he is at. We will have to see how he loses or wins. If he even loses. Chuck loses and wins the rematch takes out Rua and maybe wandy. Still tops. Loses and wins rematch loses a close split Descsion to Rua, is he still not considered one of the best. I think Rampage is the defintion of a top contender. A guy that has fought some of the best in the world and barring the Wandy fights could have won any of those. Thats a contender in my book. If he wins those we dont call him a contender. We call him champion




I just dont think rampage is/has ever been as good a fighter as everyone says....
his fight with arona BS...he was OUT COLD... i dont see how the ref didnt see it.

randyleprechaun
4/3/07 5:28:35PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

me and there werent enough top 205 contenders when he got those fights....



I dunno man. In the pride middleweight tournement he had to beat the UFC middleweight champ at the time, Murilo Bustamante and a dangerous Chuck Liddell to get to the final. Where he was completly dominated Silva until the ref stood them up!

I dunno i think Murilo and Chuck are "CONTENDERS" at the very least!
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 5:36:43PM

Posted by randyleprechaun


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

me and there werent enough top 205 contenders when he got those fights....



I dunno man. In the pride middleweight tournement he had to beat the UFC middleweight champ at the time, Murilo Bustamante and a dangerous Chuck Liddell to get to the final. Where he was completly dominated Silva until the ref stood them up!

I dunno i think Murilo and Chuck are "CONTENDERS" at the very least!



again you cant credit the win over liddell as the same liddell from today... of course he was still dangerous but again he never completed training before that fight. murilo is decent but just below a top contender..
hcazlekker
4/3/07 5:40:01PM

Posted by randyleprechaun


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

me and there werent enough top 205 contenders when he got those fights....



I dunno man. In the pride middleweight tournement he had to beat the UFC middleweight champ at the time, Murilo Bustamante and a dangerous Chuck Liddell to get to the final. Where he was completly dominated Silva until the ref stood them up!

I dunno i think Murilo and Chuck are "CONTENDERS" at the very least!



And before Murilo and Liddel there was Eastman, Maasaki, Vovchanchyn, and Randleman...
mkiv9secsupra
4/3/07 5:45:04PM
well i guess what im trying to say is obviously rampage is an awesome fighter with well rounded skills...but he doesnt have a single skill that is extremely good...examples - GSP, Liddell, Fedor... all GREAT wrestlers with GREAT striking...Nog - 3/4" steel chin with amazing BJJ, Hunt - Steel chin and REALLY heavy hands... Rampage in my eyes has good hands, good chin, and good wrestling but none of them is just awesome...
hcazlekker
4/3/07 5:55:08PM
Don't get me wrong, I think Liddell is a great fighter with excellent striking ability and a great chin.

There is a lot on the line in this particular match up though. Liddell avenging his loss, and Jackson is regaining his status. Its a matter of who is hungrier, because imo, neither have a particular advantage over the other.

Quite honestly, I think both of their styles are similar. They both have freak strength, great chins, great takedown defense, they like to box, and both fighters are constantly pushing the fight forward.

One thing we can be sure of, this is going to be a war.
nubby
4/3/07 5:56:08PM
I do have to agree that Jackson was beating Silva in their first match until the ref stood them up. It kind of pissed me off because he was definitely doing damage to Silva and it was plainly obvious.
Trapt1nw0nder
4/3/07 6:37:18PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

He never lost his potential. He lost the urge to be tha champ... just like tito and liddell.... hes proven he cant beat the best in the business so what do you think that will do to your enthusiasm? You wake up in the morning and train just to be second best... that would definitely have a toll on me...

as far as strengths go... Jackson is still great with the hands. But liddell is even better. Chuck liddell did NOT complete his training before their first fight, which is obvious seeing chuck gas halfway into the fight. Now Liddell is stronger, bigger gas tank, steel chin, and has much better footwork. Plus he has all the motivation in the world....Avenge a fight, keep the belt, and keep the winning streak going...



The biggest thing that Rampage has going for him in this fight is the fact that he doesn't fear Chucks punching power... He took plenty of shots from Chuck in their first fight and they amazingly had little to no efect on the Q...

IMO, that is one of the best weapons against a great striker... Being able to take their best shots and keep going...

Case in point, look at Gomi's reaction when Diaz wasn't KO's by that big right in the first... You could almost see that it took a lot of the fight right out of him... You can see the same effects on Chuck in their first fight... After a while, you just start looking at the guy wondering what you have to do?



I agree thats how i think Rampage will beat Chuck...the only way to beat Chuck is to break his will,and taking his best punches and keep coming at him will break him apart......just how when he fought him the first time,and the time he fought Vernon White........Chuck was looking very worried at the end of that round and i thought Vernon was gonna beat his since he looked much fresher......and im not saying Chucks punch was lucky,but he WAS lucky that he put him out with that finishing blow
hippysmacker
4/3/07 6:43:36PM
I agree that his religion has nothing to with it. I also agree that the Brutal Ko's by Wandy are the cause of his deteriation. Once was bad, twice has got to be a mental challenge to ypur confidence as a fighter. To me he hasn't been the same since. He could turn it around, he's with a new coach, and a change was needed. I would have preferred that he got more fight's before rematching Chuch, but there wasn't a lot of choices at the time, and the UFC thought Jardine and Rashad weren't ready. Too bad the merger didn't got through quicker. I would have rather seen Chuck vs Wandy/Shogun first. It'd done now, and I hope he does well, but I think Chuck would beat any LHVY in the world right now. I haven't seen a sign that he is on the decline yet. Rampage likes to strike , and his new trainer is a great striking coach, so hopefully this will answer peoples questions about Chuck vs another good striker.
Mastodon2
4/3/07 6:50:43PM
Rampage just seemed to lose the edge when he converted to Christianity. In the pre fight before Rampage / Wanderlei II he just seemed like his head wasnt in it. He didnt have the fire and the rage that he used to have. After that KO, he came back looking even worse, absolutely no fight in him at all, and somehow still beat Ninja in a split decision.

He is only just starting to look like Rampage again.

Quiton Jackson cant beat Liddell.

Rampage can destroy him.
hippysmacker
4/3/07 6:52:10PM
Christianity hasn't hurt Randy
hcazlekker
4/3/07 6:58:57PM

Posted by Mastodon2

Quiton Jackson cant beat Liddell.

Rampage can destroy him.



Haha, I like that.
loller90278
4/3/07 7:33:52PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

well i guess what im trying to say is obviously rampage is an awesome fighter with well rounded skills...but he doesnt have a single skill that is extremely good...examples - GSP, Liddell, Fedor... all GREAT wrestlers with GREAT striking...Nog - 3/4" steel chin with amazing BJJ, Hunt - Steel chin and REALLY heavy hands... Rampage in my eyes has good hands, good chin, and good wrestling but none of them is just awesome...



rampage is widely known for his slams.
Lay_N_Pray
4/3/07 7:39:24PM
You asked if Rampage is still the same figher. I think the real question should be is Chuck the same fighter?

Chuck has vastly improved and has been on a monster winning streak with two victories over the UFC heavyweight champ and that will be a factor. This fight is also taking place on Chucks turf in the octagon as opposed to a ring, which does have an effect.

Rampage is a great fighter and since he is still very young I think he will be the king of 205 one day. That day is not going to happen in May.

However, I think if Chuck wins, Rampage will win Liddell/Jackson III and that will be when the torch is passed if you will
AlmightyThor
4/3/07 8:11:17PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

well when this fight is over.... if rampage wins ill admit chuck is not the best 205'er in the world...... if rampage loses everyone admits rampage is not and never has been a top contender....




Is not and has never been a top contender? If he wasnt stood up in the first fight against wanderlei when he was pounding him, he would have won. i dont even need to mention what he did to chuck last time. Saying hes not a top contender? that is ridiculous
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