Quality of UFC refs since Big Jhon has left.

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theguido
5/31/08 3:20:37PM
Do you feel like things have gone down hill at all?
tomsmith17381
5/31/08 3:40:51PM
I wouldnt say its gone down hill at all but i certainly miss big john's presence in the octagon. he was a celebrity in his own right
Twenty20Dollars
5/31/08 3:50:43PM
i think there has been more incidents w/ the ref's now with the stoppages.

only ref that i like is mario.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
5/31/08 3:51:34PM
i think herb dean is the best ref atm , mazagati being the worst. BIG john was by far the best. I certainly do miss him. I Wouldnt say the quality of ufc refs has gone down. It's not like big john refed every fight before.
jae_1833
5/31/08 4:06:14PM
Well at least there hasn't been any major problems yet. They had one with the Thiago Karo fight, but it was somehow swept under the rug....I still think Thiago was going to win regardless, but it was just a little premature which allowed for Karo to jump up and act as if he wasn't hurt in the slightest. The refs aren't bad...they just aren't great and Big John was.
holt8081
5/31/08 4:33:24PM
ya its all about Herb know.
MFOTHER
5/31/08 6:13:32PM
herb is the best they have .

i DO NOT LIKE YEVES LAVIGNE
ohiostate1016
5/31/08 7:11:59PM
I don't like to bash people (which means that is exactly what I'm about to do), but I don't like Mazzagatti as a ref. I have nothing against him as a person, but it just doesn't seem like he has the ref's instincts as to how much punishment a fighter can take. I mean, come on, these guys are in the UFC for goodness sake! I'm prett sure that a guy isn't going to get KO'd from a grazing superman punch (Irvin vs. Alexander ref). Anyone can be unconscious for 1/83 of a second; that does NOT mean that a fight has to be stopped.

I just wish that Big John could do some ref training in the UFC and such. Maybe if these refs TALKED to the fighters like John did, they would know how to handle these guys.
Pitbull09
5/31/08 8:44:59PM
I didnt notice how great a ref he was until he left.

Now there are so many stoppages Im flipping out over. People may disagree with me but I still think the Penn/Sherk stoppage was wrong. Even if Sherk was out during the round, it wasnt stopped. The round ended then they decided that it was stopped? There was another fight that night where the same thing happened except they let the guy continue but he chose not to.

To me, on sherdog they should mark the fight endign at 5:10 of the 3rd round
mrkennedy
6/1/08 12:04:00AM
yves lavigne is the best refere imo
skinnator
6/1/08 12:06:02AM
nonono its ive lavine
warglory
6/1/08 12:47:39AM

Posted by ohiostate1016

Anyone can be unconscious for 1/83 of a second; that does NOT mean that a fight has to be stopped.



I'm sorry, but this made absolutely no sense to me. If a ref notices a fighter is unconscious, which both Karo and Alexander were on that card, it's his responsibility to immediately stop that fight. You expect a ref to let a fight go for a little while longer to make sure the downed fighter isn't EXTRA knocked out?
gartface
6/1/08 12:49:56AM

Posted by MFOTHER

herb is the best they have .

i DO NOT LIKE YEVES LAVIGNE



That's sad. I feel he is an awful ref. After tonight, I think that Miragliotta did a good job. (I know, shoot me) He stopped the knock outs before excess shots could get in. (I.E. Rogers vs. Murphy)

They need more of him in the UFC I think.
bigbubbano23
6/1/08 1:32:42AM
i forget the big refs name but he was on elite xc. i like him the best even though he made a questionable call in the thompson fight.
MMAcca
6/1/08 8:54:34AM

Posted by bigbubbano23

i forget the big refs name but he was on elite xc. i like him the best even though he made a questionable call in the thompson fight.




Dan Miragliotta.

I was a big fan of his too until last night......
Twerkwrench
6/1/08 11:40:51AM
So why did John leave? Did he go to a different org.?
Manfred
6/1/08 12:56:51PM

Posted by MMAcca


Posted by bigbubbano23

i forget the big refs name but he was on elite xc. i like him the best even though he made a questionable call in the thompson fight.




Dan Miragliotta.

I was a big fan of his too until last night......



His stoppage in Alexander / Thiago was perfect. But it's funny how he lets Rashad LnP on Bisping with very little action and yet he stands up a relatively busy JT.

I'm not a conspiracy buff by any means, but between that and the lack of stoppage at the end of the 2nd (judgement call but there was definitely a lot of undefended shots) AND the early stoppage in the 3rd, something seemed off.

Would JT have gone down after another shot or two? Probably, but Kimbo was gassed and JT might have shot and taken him down again. We don't know.

Manfred
6/1/08 1:05:58PM

Posted by Twerkwrench

So why did John leave? Did he go to a different org.?



Most refs don't work for the org. They ref for all the orgs and answer to the athletic commission(s).

BJM was actually exclusive to the UFC. I think I read he was getting some extra cash not to ref elsewhere since he was as much the face of the UFC as a lot of the fighters. Something like $60-80 grand a year, if memory serves.

He's been there since UFC 2. Made a lot of the changes in the early days too. (ref stoppages being one after Pat Smith's destruction of Scott Morris and he had to yell at the corner to throw in the towel because he couldn't call the fight.)

To answer your question, BJM retired to do some commenting and to run his gym.
MMAcca
6/1/08 1:11:30PM

Posted by Manfred


Posted by MMAcca


Posted by bigbubbano23

i forget the big refs name but he was on elite xc. i like him the best even though he made a questionable call in the thompson fight.




Dan Miragliotta.

I was a big fan of his too until last night......



His stoppage in Alexander / Thiago was perfect. But it's funny how he lets Rashad LnP on Bisping with very little action and yet he stands up a relatively busy JT.

I'm not a conspiracy buff by any means, but between that and the lack of stoppage at the end of the 2nd (judgement call but there was definitely a lot of undefended shots) AND the early stoppage in the 3rd, something seemed off.

Would JT have gone down after another shot or two? Probably, but Kimbo was gassed and JT might have shot and taken him down again. We don't know.





I'm not a conspiracy theorist either but something about last night is just screaming BS to me. IMO he should have stopped it at the end of the 2nd when (like you said) there was so many undefendedshots.

Big Dan has seemed so consistent (for the most part) right up until last night and the way he stopped the fight just wasn't right.

Definately something fishy going on methinks......
urbman
6/1/08 7:25:14PM
Big John was solid in the octagon,like the best umpire's in baseball they practically go unnoticed.Although i never seen him do a backflip in there (yves),he set the bar pretty high for the rest.
keith-hackney1
6/2/08 8:15:19AM
I thought big john has gone to work for some company that analyses fights and helps to set ref rules and courses to enable future refs to be able to make the right call. One of the top commissioners have backed him and the company he works for setting up the bar line that referee's need to be qualified in for the future of MMA refereeing.

I think the UFC's best ref bar a mile is herb dean, he called tim sylvia's broken arm against mir, No saw that break, everyone slated him about making the wrong call until the replay revealed what he saw. He was quick on crocop when GG ko'd him. Had GG got on crocop and continued to land strikes, mirko could have left the cage on a stretcher. He seems to be the guy who has stepped into big john's role. Quality ref.
JBatch
6/2/08 9:59:18PM
Big John was the best. And I know that he works for the Fight Network now.

I also thought Dan M. was doing a great job as a ref until I saw the Kimbo vs. Thompson stoppage. Yet I think there was a lot of pressure put on by CBS and EliteXC management.

Right now I like Herb and Mario
mrsmiley
6/3/08 10:40:39AM
Big John was on one issue of Inside MMA,and he I belive is also now a member of Wamma or what ever you call it.He was on the show with Don Frye talking about cross-promotion events.
Qorvus
6/4/08 10:39:41AM
Yves Lavigne FTW.

Very underrated and under utilized.
upsetstomach
6/4/08 1:54:10PM
Yves is hands down the best ref around today. Herb would stop a fight before it started if he could. When anyone gets taken down, trips and falls or stumbles you'll see Herbs feet on the screen somewhere hovering over the fallen fighter...few more seconds go by and he calls it.

Mazagatti and Yamasaki are both decent and well versed in how to handle tough decisions but they to often call fights for unfair reasons.

If someone is genuinely knocked out and unconcsious whether it be for a slpit second or 15 seconds, they should call the fight so that these guys don't get hurt.

All in all, Yves is becoming a strong contender in the referee biz, calls it like he sees it, makes fair decisons and gives fighters ample time to defend and recover from hard shots.

He is also agile like a cat, did you see last UFC?....nice roll and smooth recovery...

The "Y" factor all the way.
GrizzlyChadams
6/4/08 5:51:15PM
I'd say Dean is currently the best ref the UFC has going. I've been seeing alot of questionable decisions made by refs lately.
cowcatcher
6/5/08 9:52:23AM
miragliotta is the best right now to me, despite the kimbo fight. my guess is that the elitexc folks make it loud and clear that they want their fighters standing and trading and not grappling. yves is the worst by far but i find myself liking him more after the trip, i crack up every time i see it so i guess making me laugh earns points with me.
MFOTHER
6/5/08 9:58:18AM
everyone loves yves.......i think he is the worst.......go rewatch the herring/ big nog fight....... nog couldnt even get up.......
The_Italian_Stallion
6/5/08 11:52:20AM
There's certainly not any amazing-never question a call ref anymore... I like Herb and Steve personally but Mario I do not.

I also don't like how people I've never heard of doing title shots like Troy Waugh or something. I don't know who that is...
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