Is Punching or squeezing yourself out the same as gassing out

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Cdellorso
7/5/10 8:35:14PM
In my 1st MMA fight I experienced it- I was incorrectly trying to sub a guy and squeezes do hard, after the 1st, my arms were lead.... we saw something similar with Lebon VS Aaron Simpson. Aaron is very fit and can wrestle for hours ( exagg...) he just threw too many haymakers that missed.
I dont think Shanes cardio failed. I think the major adrenalynn rush
combined with throwing way to many heavy punches burned his arms up....

woulda could shoulda..... shane sees brock is not that hur, stand him up and hit him some more...

Hopeful that we see Shane VS Brock again someday.
grappler0000
7/5/10 8:47:49PM
One is cardiovascular endurance, while the other is muscular endurance. There is some overlap, but it is two completely different things. I do feel that Simpson actually gassed though.
ncordless
7/5/10 9:16:56PM
I don't think there is really a distinction. Punching and squeezing are just actions that lead to gassing out, just like any other technique in mma. Why would gassing out because you threw punches at a pace that your cardio couldn't handle be any different than gassing on takedown attempts?

Gassing out doesn't have to be the result of poor conditioning, although poor conditioning will hasten the fatigue. It can also come from fighting at an unmanageable pace (gassing out from punches or takedowns or scrambles or anything like that) or a lack of economy of movement (poor technique on subs, improper breathing, tensing up or anything like that). A fighter will not gas if he is not doing anything. It is the actions a fighter takes that lead to fatigue. To me it doesn't make sense to try and differentiate the cause from the effect beyond saying that one leads to the other.
bjj1605
7/5/10 9:19:10PM
I'm pretty sure that Carwin gassed out. Just by looking at the guy I can tell you that he does a lot more muscular exercise than what he did in that fight.

The fact that his arms were moving so fast and for so long exhausted him cardiovascularly. It wasn't as if his foot work and energy were still there but his arms were hanging. He was sucking wind, a sign of gassing.
bjj1605
7/5/10 9:23:18PM

Posted by ncordless

I don't think there is really a distinction. Punching and squeezing are just actions that lead to gassing out, just like any other technique in mma. Why would gassing out because you threw punches at a pace that your cardio couldn't handle be any different than gassing on takedown attempts?

Gassing out doesn't have to be the result of poor conditioning, although poor conditioning will hasten the fatigue. It can also come from fighting at an unmanageable pace (gassing out from punches or takedowns or scrambles or anything like that) or a lack of economy of movement (poor technique on subs, improper breathing, tensing up or anything like that). A fighter will not gas if he is not doing anything. It is the actions a fighter takes that lead to fatigue. To me it doesn't make sense to try and differentiate the cause from the effect beyond saying that one leads to the other.



he isn't comparing punching yourself out to squeezing yourself out. He's comparing both to gassing yourself out.

When you punch/squeeze yourself out you are exhausting your muscles (tho punching yourself out often has the cardiovascular affect attached to it as well).

When you gas out you are exhausting yourself cardiovascularly.
Caesarrrr
7/5/10 9:38:12PM

Posted by bjj1605

I'm pretty sure that Carwin gassed out. Just by looking at the guy I can tell you that he does a lot more muscular exercise than what he did in that fight.



That's all that's needed. You can tell he works Muscle Endurance workouts, just by the way his muscles look. I'll admit he might have been on his way to punching himself out, but I read somewhere that he felt like his body was seizing up after the first, and that has to do with dehydration and cardio. He probably didn't eat right the night before, either.
grappler0000
7/5/10 9:55:36PM

Posted by Caesarrrr


Posted by bjj1605

I'm pretty sure that Carwin gassed out. Just by looking at the guy I can tell you that he does a lot more muscular exercise than what he did in that fight.



That's all that's needed. You can tell he works Muscle Endurance workouts, just by the way his muscles look. I'll admit he might have been on his way to punching himself out, but I read somewhere that he felt like his body was seizing up after the first, and that has to do with dehydration and cardio. He probably didn't eat right the night before, either.



Actually, he talked about it not being cardio. He said that his body stopped working, insinuating that his muscular endurance wasn't up to par.
grappler0000
7/5/10 9:58:54PM

Posted by ncordless

I don't think there is really a distinction. Punching and squeezing are just actions that lead to gassing out, just like any other technique in mma.



There's a huge difference, especially with squeezing. You can blow out your arm(s), but still have all of the cardio left in the world. Go do some light dumbbell curls until failure...your arms will be temporarily useless, but you're not winded at all.
AchillesHeel
7/6/10 9:16:06AM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless

I don't think there is really a distinction. Punching and squeezing are just actions that lead to gassing out, just like any other technique in mma.



There's a huge difference, especially with squeezing. You can blow out your arm(s), but still have all of the cardio left in the world. Go do some light dumbbell curls until failure...your arms will be temporarily useless, but you're not winded at all.


The term "cardio" (short for "cardiovascular fitness") might be misleading here. Cardiovascular fitness is your body's ability to deliver oxygen to its muscles, and becoming winded isn't the only expression of cardiovascular fatigue. I think you're trying to draw the distinction between aerobic and anaerobic exertion. Anaerobic exercise is what produces lactic acid in muscles, which is the kind of fatigue I think you're describing.

"Stamina" might be a better word, because it could account for the balance of aerobic and anaerobic activity that a fighter tries to strike during a fight, through the technique(s) they use, the pace they maintain, and so on. That balance is one part of the "chess game" that Joe Rogan is always going on about, because 15 minutes (or even 5) is too long for people to go full-tilt (e.g. using anaerobic exertion), but knockout punches and submissions basically require it.

From Wikipedia, "Aerobic versus anaerobic exercise":

"Aerobic exercise and fitness can be contrasted with anaerobic exercise, of which strength training and short-distance running are the most salient examples. The two types of exercise differ by the duration and intensity of muscular contractions involved, as well as by how energy is generated within the muscle. [...]

Anaerobic exercise, in contrast [to aerobic exercise], refers to the initial phase of exercise, or to any short burst of intense exertion, in which the glycogen or sugar is respired without oxygen, and is a far less efficient process.."
grappler0000
7/6/10 11:02:07AM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ncordless

I don't think there is really a distinction. Punching and squeezing are just actions that lead to gassing out, just like any other technique in mma.



There's a huge difference, especially with squeezing. You can blow out your arm(s), but still have all of the cardio left in the world. Go do some light dumbbell curls until failure...your arms will be temporarily useless, but you're not winded at all.


The term "cardio" (short for "cardiovascular fitness") might be misleading here. Cardiovascular fitness is your body's ability to deliver oxygen to its muscles, and becoming winded isn't the only expression of cardiovascular fatigue. I think you're trying to draw the distinction between aerobic and anaerobic exertion. Anaerobic exercise is what produces lactic acid in muscles, which is the kind of fatigue I think you're describing.

"Stamina" might be a better word, because it could account for the balance of aerobic and anaerobic activity that a fighter tries to strike during a fight, through the technique(s) they use, the pace they maintain, and so on. That balance is one part of the "chess game" that Joe Rogan is always going on about, because 15 minutes (or even 5) is too long for people to go full-tilt (e.g. using anaerobic exertion), but knockout punches and submissions basically require it.

From Wikipedia, "Aerobic versus anaerobic exercise":

"Aerobic exercise and fitness can be contrasted with anaerobic exercise, of which strength training and short-distance running are the most salient examples. The two types of exercise differ by the duration and intensity of muscular contractions involved, as well as by how energy is generated within the muscle. [...]

Anaerobic exercise, in contrast [to aerobic exercise], refers to the initial phase of exercise, or to any short burst of intense exertion, in which the glycogen or sugar is respired without oxygen, and is a far less efficient process.."



I'm aware that cardio isn't the perfect word, but it's a good word for the context of the conversation, considering the audience and their understanding of the word. Just using "stamina" wouldn't be any better in my opinion, unless it's accompanies by a descriptor. In my previous post, I separated two different types of endurance, which this response turned into an extension of that. I actually completely left out lactic acid from the conversation by design. The role that lactic acid plays has been under debate for a few years...and I was basically trying to avoid anyone that just decided to google it and decided to try and argue about it.
BustedKnuckle
7/7/10 8:50:29PM
I didn't Google anything, just going off of what I have endured. I have wrestled countless hrs since age 8. And hit the "bags" for a lot. Not anywhere near as many as wrestled. I am still at odds about what you have brought up. As i have never trained professionaly. Maybe a guy like Carwin needs to train "his" Cardio different than a 155 pounder. His muscles eat up a ton on O2. Maybe his cardio workouts should involve a bunch on GnP/wrestling stations combined with running/other heart/lung cardio. Just a thought. As i am also a "big" guy. I can see where his arms would tire before his "lungs"!! I am in no where near the shape or size that Shane is, but I kinda get where the muscle where would get to you. The guy did throw everything into every punch for like 2 and a half mins!!! props to Shane in the loss. Hope he learned somthing from it!!
Pookie
7/12/10 3:35:38AM
It all depends on what you mean by gassing out.

To me, you are starting to gas when you cant push yourself as hard as you were earlier in the fight. The fatigue and all around decrease of danger the fighter presents is what i use to measure how gassed out a fighter is figuratively speaking.

Whether its your muscles tightening up or you not getting enough oxygen to your muscles, i think it all has the same result. You gas out.
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