Pulling Guard

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Violence108
7/29/09 8:43:24PM
When a fighter pulls guard, does that count as a take down for him?? or the other guy?? i dont see how it would count for the other guy because he did nothing to take him down , the fighter pulled guard on him and draged him down.
ncordless
7/29/09 9:02:15PM
A takedown involves bringing your opponent to the ground and establishing top control. Pulling guard does take the fight to the ground, but it does not put the person who pulled in a position of top control. Therefore pulling guard is not a takedown.
tepid55
7/29/09 9:03:47PM
I think the guy that lands on top gets credit for the takedown.
Violence108
7/29/09 9:30:13PM
why should it matter whos on top?? the guy who wanted it to the ground got it there, i think it should count for him
Wolfenstein
7/29/09 10:42:48PM
If you're Demian Maia...I probably score that as a takedown.
kopower
7/29/09 10:52:53PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

If you're Demian Maia...I probably score that as a takedown.



I second that
breakdown5
7/29/09 11:34:28PM
If a fighter is that confident in his ground skills, then he's probably not that worried about the other guy scoring points off the TD. It doesn't matter how far ahead on the scorecard you are when you are tapping out.

mentalcase
7/30/09 12:42:40AM
if im fighting someone in the UFC game and i cant take them down i just go to butt scoot position and kick from my back until they get bored
Kpro
7/30/09 4:48:01AM

Posted by Violence108

why should it matter whos on top??



You wanna explain this one to my girlfriend?
mentalcase
7/30/09 5:59:13AM

Posted by Kpro


Posted by Violence108

why should it matter whos on top??



You wanna explain this one to my girlfriend?



ill do one better put her on a plane and ill show her what he means
Kpro
7/30/09 6:10:54AM

Posted by mentalcase


Posted by Kpro


Posted by Violence108

why should it matter whos on top??



You wanna explain this one to my girlfriend?



ill do one better put her on a plane and ill show her what he means



She's currently on the rag, plane ticket has been purchased. Have fun.
Aaronno9
7/30/09 6:42:39AM
The guy pulling guard is essentially the one scoring the takedown, but unless he pulls off the sub or manages to work his way on top, hes still throwing away the round becouse the way the UFC scoring works, the guy with top control takes the points 9.5/10 times.
Aaronno9
7/30/09 6:43:29AM

Posted by Violence108

why should it matter whos on top??




Becouse thats who the judges are giving points to.
Kpro
7/30/09 6:58:20AM
As far as US (not UFC) rules are concerned, pulling guard immediately puts your opponent into a dominant grappling position with ring control. That's 2 of the top 3 categories used to judge fights in any US sanctioned bout.

It doesn't count as a takedown for either fighter, but unless the guy on the bottom gets the sub, it doesn't do him any good at all. In fact, unless you know you can catch someone on the ground, or you know you'll get KO'd on the feet, its a horrible idea if you think the fight could go to decision.
postman
7/30/09 12:17:08PM
First I would like to say that I didn't know HMC was a girl! and tha pulling gurd on hin/her would be real tuff.

Now as stated before if you are in MMA there are strikes involved being on your back is no good. So if you pull guard in MMA you need to secure a sub or sweep and take dominate position ASAP.

Submission grappling is different guard is concidered nutral and pulling guard gives no one point. agian you will need to sweep to get points. It depends on the rule of the tournement but some give you points for sub attempts others do not. Also so do not allow you to pull guard.

KaibaThedon
7/30/09 1:16:33PM

Posted by kopower


Posted by Wolfenstein

If you're Demian Maia...I probably score that as a takedown.



I second that



I have to third this actually...

if Demain Maia pulls guard on you, its best that you stand up and back off, or you're gonna get choked out.

Very soon.
Joemoplata
7/31/09 12:08:09AM

Posted by postman

Now as stated before if you are in MMA there are strikes involved being on your back is no good. So if you pull guard in MMA you need to secure a sub or sweep and take dominate position ASAP.

Submission grappling is different guard is concidered nutral and pulling guard gives no one point. agian you will need to sweep to get points. It depends on the rule of the tournement but some give you points for sub attempts others do not. Also so do not allow you to pull guard.




Correct. In MMA pulling guard alone means nothing really and unless the bottom guy showed oustanding control with sweepts attempts and/or submission attempts then at the end of the round the guy on top gets the nod.

In BJJ or Submission Grappling tournaments pulling guard means nothing and will be completely neutral at the end of regulation if no points or advantages were scored and both fighters showed equal levels of "aggression".
Jackelope
7/31/09 9:30:40AM
All that means at my school is that you successfully completed a bitch move 'Course, there's nothing but collegiate wrestlers there, so I'm sure that stems from BJJ guys coming in and choking them the hell out after pulling guard.
ncordless
7/31/09 9:41:09AM

Posted by Jackelope

All that means at my school is that you successfully completed a bitch move 'Course, there's nothing but collegiate wrestlers there, so I'm sure that stems from BJJ guys coming in and choking them the hell out after pulling guard.



LOL... yeah. Just like taking someone down is a bitch move at a predominantly striking-based camp.
Jackelope
7/31/09 9:43:55AM

Posted by ncordless


Posted by Jackelope

All that means at my school is that you successfully completed a bitch move 'Course, there's nothing but collegiate wrestlers there, so I'm sure that stems from BJJ guys coming in and choking them the hell out after pulling guard.



LOL... yeah. Just like taking someone down is a bitch move at a predominantly striking-based camp.



Coincidentally, that's our other strong suit
Rush
7/31/09 12:23:40PM
I don't know the official stance on guard pulling, but I would consider it a neutral technique, similar to stalking your opponent without hitting them or holding on to your opponent on the ground to get a restart. That being said, I think there are some variations depending on the situation


If fighter A pulls guard and fighter B holds him up and then slams him - should be a takedown for fighter B

If fighter A pulls guard and immediatly transitions to an armbar, fighter A should get credit for aggressivness/control

If fighter A pulls guard and fighter B concedes and nothing happens then I would consider the situation neutral, where points are scored according to what happens thereafter.



Also regarding guard pulling, in my experience both watching MMA and grappling myself, I will say that in many cases it is a move of desparation, rather than attack, either because the fighter cannot take the other one down or to avoid damage in standup (clinch) exchanges
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