My problem with GSP....

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crushedbacon
3/29/10 1:29:59PM
This is hilarious....

In GSP's recent fights he has fought the top WW's in the world and has not lost a round but people rag on him for not finishing....WOW!?! Even though prior to these recent fights he has finished several opponents with a variation of KOs and Subs.

Who has put a whoopin on Fitch like GSP? Nobody

Then he beat Penn like he was a 6th grader.... until BJ revealed 'to the death" was equal to the end of the 4th round".....

Then Alves....who GSP struck with, took down and beat up all night, once again who else at WW can do this to Alves? Nobody

Then the Hardy fight.....50-43, 50-44, 50-45. With an armbar in the 1st that easily could have been the end of things..... Not one time in that fight did GSP allow Hardy to gain any position where he was in danger. And for anyone who thinks GSP let up there....come on...seriously?

So lets try to make a cross sport comparison here, using the NFL.....if the Steelers are up against a team with no run D, what do you think their gameplan is? Its RUN the ball more than likely, right. Just because the passing game is more 'exciting' to the average fan, do they abandon their gameplan to please the crowd and let Big Ben air it out all day?

So why do you guys expect St. Pierre to give his opponent a better chance of winning by implementing a crowd pleasing gameplan instead of a fight winning one? Oh yeah because your a fair weather fan and you don't know enough about the ground game to appreciate it......i get it you like puches and knockdowns with lots of blood, don't have to think to hard to understand that hey






cmill21
3/29/10 3:04:17PM
You guys defending him need to understand that if he does want to be the best #4# he needs to finish...like Anderson, BJ and Fedor do. It's boring to watch now IMO and many others to, he needs to finish and do it in the first few rounds. I'm really happy that he's such a great wrestler, but there is a reason most do not watch Div 1 uni matches, they want subs, KO's and TKO's, not decisions consisting of position improvements and the odd elbow and punch from the top. MMA might be a sport, but first and foremost it is entertainment, GSP needs to add more of that into his game as opposed to trying to "stay champion for a long time". Risk it to get the biscuit.
ncordless
3/29/10 3:37:59PM
The problem is his opposition's inability to stop the takedown. GSP ain't John Smith.

Until people figure out how to sprawl his takedowns, the only thing we will ever see is GSP taking his opponent down. In the end, MMA is about doing what ever works to win fights. That is what makes it different than "professional" wrestling or traditional martial arts contests. With winning as the goal, it would be ridiculously stupid for a fighter to not do what he is almost 100% effective doing. So far, there has been no defense for a GSP takedown in a very long time. Part of fighting is mental, and you'd have to question the quality of a fighter who didn't do what is the most likely successful.

With that said, I'd rather watch a guy like Jose Aldo any day. GSP grinding people into the mat is entertaining, but not as much as a double flying knee. But that doesn't in any way affect where I place GSP in the rankings. Just because it ain't pretty doesn't mean it isn't dominant. There is nothing more dominant in MMA than GSP's takedowns and takedown defense.
gartface
3/29/10 4:03:07PM

Posted by ncordless

The problem is his opposition's inability to stop the takedown. GSP ain't John Smith.

Until people figure out how to sprawl his takedowns, the only thing we will ever see is GSP taking his opponent down. In the end, MMA is about doing what ever works to win fights. That is what makes it different than "professional" wrestling or traditional martial arts contests. With winning as the goal, it would be ridiculously stupid for a fighter to not do what he is almost 100% effective doing. So far, there has been no defense for a GSP takedown in a very long time. Part of fighting is mental, and you'd have to question the quality of a fighter who didn't do what is the most likely successful.

With that said, I'd rather watch a guy like Jose Aldo any day. GSP grinding people into the mat is entertaining, but not as much as a double flying knee. But that doesn't in any way affect where I place GSP in the rankings. Just because it ain't pretty doesn't mean it isn't dominant. There is nothing more dominant in MMA than GSP's takedowns and takedown defense.


Very well said. I think the flipside of this coin would be fighters like Jorge Gurgel, who have a great way to win, but instead try to rely on the "entertaining" factor. These kind of fighters could be good, and in some cases dominant, but don't do what they should to win a fight, but play against their strengths.
BeeR
3/29/10 4:38:55PM

Posted by cmill21

You guys defending him need to understand that if he does want to be the best #4# he needs to finish...



You guys ragging on him need to learn about MMA and the sport as a whole.
MMA is a SPORT first, entertainment second, to say otherwise throws anything you've said straight into the gutter. MMA isnt the WWE, the fighters arent there to make everyone happy, they arent there to entertain everybody, they are there to fight, and to win, whether YOU are entertained or not lies solely in YOUR hands.
If the UFC was trying to first and foremost entertain, then it would be called K1, and there would be rules to keep the fights off the ground where casual fans become "bored" or "annoyed" with the athletes who dedicate their LIVES to doing what they do. GSP does not need to risk anything, Im sure his Legacy will reign on whether you're "entertained" or not.
State_Champ
3/29/10 6:46:29PM

Posted by BeeR


Posted by cmill21

You guys defending him need to understand that if he does want to be the best #4# he needs to finish...



You guys ragging on him need to learn about MMA and the sport as a whole.
MMA is a SPORT first, entertainment second, to say otherwise throws anything you've said straight into the gutter. MMA isnt the WWE, the fighters arent there to make everyone happy, they arent there to entertain everybody, they are there to fight, and to win, whether YOU are entertained or not lies solely in YOUR hands....



RiseUp21
3/29/10 7:56:52PM
I love how Clay Guida gets to be considered "one of the sport's most entertaining fighters" by implementing the exact same gameplan as GSP and yet GSP gets criticized. Its not like GSP is LnP'ing... When was the last time a ref stood him up for inactivity or not improving his position? Christ.
State_Champ
3/29/10 9:09:49PM

Posted by RiseUp21

I love how Clay Guida gets to be considered "one of the sport's most entertaining fighters" by implementing the exact same gameplan as GSP and yet GSP gets criticized. Its not like GSP is LnP'ing... When was the last time a ref stood him up for inactivity or not improving his position? Christ.



I can't remember the last time GSP had a fight that looked anything like Guida vs Sanchez....
haha.

Also, the issue I have with GSP (as I have said before) is not so much his style. The issue in my mind is that GSP thoroughly out-classes his opponents and yet he still seems unable to finish a fight....
Guida doesn't smash all his opponents, he puts on even fights sometimes or even just some old-fashioned brawls, but I can't fault the guy for not finishing his opponents because he may not be able to do so. On the other hand, imo GSP should be able to finish his fights since he absolutely dominates his opponents.

I always want GSP to lose (except when he fought Penn the second time, but now I would cheer for Penn instead of him), but I recognize that GSP is a force in the WW division. He controls his opponents for 5 rounds while taking practically zero damage himself. It is very impressive. I am just bothered that he can smother and control and outwork opponents but seems unable to finish these fighters whom he bends to his will for 25mins.
I'm not saying he should finish his opponents, I'm just saying that that is what I would like to see from him.....
It seems like the only thing he could've done to improve on this last performance would've been to finish Hardy.
cmill21
3/29/10 10:37:56PM

Posted by BeeR


Posted by cmill21

You guys defending him need to understand that if he does want to be the best #4# he needs to finish...



You guys ragging on him need to learn about MMA and the sport as a whole.
MMA is a SPORT first, entertainment second, to say otherwise throws anything you've said straight into the gutter. MMA isnt the WWE, the fighters arent there to make everyone happy, they arent there to entertain everybody, they are there to fight, and to win, whether YOU are entertained or not lies solely in YOUR hands.
If the UFC was trying to first and foremost entertain, then it would be called K1, and there would be rules to keep the fights off the ground where casual fans become "bored" or "annoyed" with the athletes who dedicate their LIVES to doing what they do. GSP does not need to risk anything, Im sure his Legacy will reign on whether you're "entertained" or not.



MMA is 100% entertainment first. Freak show fights are everywhere, the whole reason 90% of the people watching is for the KO or the sub. You want to know why boxing isn't the top combat sport anymore? Decision after decision. I also think, and many agree, that if K-1 was easier to watch and advertised in north america it would quickly eclipse MMA. Also how is MMA not there to keep people happy, every single sport is, it's a matter of doing that that determins whether or not they are the top sport. I don't know everything about MMA and still have alot to learn but I think I know a thing or two atleast, main thing being the reason MMA grew so fast is because it's an entertaining sport, the main emphasis being on entertainment. The most popular fighters are the entertaining guys like Brock, BJ, Andy, Chuck, Tito(not in the ring but behind the mic further strengthening my point) etc. I think everyone here needs to accept we're not some exclusive club, we're the minority boys.
RiseUp21
3/29/10 11:08:41PM

Posted by State_Champ


Posted by RiseUp21

I love how Clay Guida gets to be considered "one of the sport's most entertaining fighters" by implementing the exact same gameplan as GSP and yet GSP gets criticized. Its not like GSP is LnP'ing... When was the last time a ref stood him up for inactivity or not improving his position? Christ.



I can't remember the last time GSP had a fight that looked anything like Guida vs Sanchez....
haha.



I will watch that fight again, but i would think the reason that was a boxing match was because Guida couldn't hold Sanchez down. I'm talking more about fights like Guida/Diaz. All I'm saying is its not GSP's fault people have a harder time getting out from under him. And I'd obviously like to see him finish more opponents, but i mean, in the case of 111 i blame that more on Hardy than GSP. 99.9% of dudes would have tapped twice in that fight.
Rush
3/29/10 11:57:24PM
I seriously could not even fathom that a thread like this would have been started.

IF you think he fights to "not lose", please, watch GSP's fight history in the UFC and think over your assessment again. I have not seen one fight of his where he looks like he is riding out the clock.

Using the Hardy fight as an example, just look at the sub attempt number. Look at the frustration on the guy's face after each round.

With all the other clock riders out there, I can't even begin to think how anyone would accuse GSP of not trying to finish a fight.
State_Champ
3/30/10 12:01:05AM

Posted by RiseUp21


Posted by State_Champ


Posted by RiseUp21

I love how Clay Guida gets to be considered "one of the sport's most entertaining fighters" by implementing the exact same gameplan as GSP and yet GSP gets criticized. Its not like GSP is LnP'ing... When was the last time a ref stood him up for inactivity or not improving his position? Christ.



I can't remember the last time GSP had a fight that looked anything like Guida vs Sanchez....
haha.



I will watch that fight again, but i would think the reason that was a boxing match was because Guida couldn't hold Sanchez down. I'm talking more about fights like Guida/Diaz. All I'm saying is its not GSP's fault people have a harder time getting out from under him. And I'd obviously like to see him finish more opponents, but i mean, in the case of 111 i blame that more on Hardy than GSP. 99.9% of dudes would have tapped twice in that fight.



Guida Diaz? I don't think that was the fight that got Guida labelled as "one of the sport's most entertaining fighters". But I could be wrong.

. I like it that you just switched the blame from GSP (who it seems like many people are blaming for this last fighting maybe being boring to some fans) to Hardy for not tapping. That was awesome. Seriously, mad props.

I agree that most people would've tapped, I bet GSP himself would've tapped, but we'll never know as long as he keeps smothering his opponents for 5 rounds and never gets a submission slapped on himself.
cmill21
3/30/10 12:26:32AM

Posted by Rush

I seriously could not even fathom that a thread like this would have been started.

IF you think he fights to "not lose", please, watch GSP's fight history in the UFC and think over your assessment again. I have not seen one fight of his where he looks like he is riding out the clock.

Using the Hardy fight as an example, just look at the sub attempt number. Look at the frustration on the guy's face after each round.

With all the other clock riders out there, I can't even begin to think how anyone would accuse GSP of not trying to finish a fight.



He does try to finish, I definetly don't **** on him for that. I'm on the same boat as GSP, he needs to finish. If he's good enough to be on the top of that #4# list then he's good enough to finish Hardy. No offence to Hardy, but he's not on GSP's level, and yeah he's tough but the toughest guys on earth can be choked out.
MMAui
4/2/10 4:24:04AM
What it looks like to me is, you have pretty much a slugger mentality. Maybe you don't like boxing, something along that line. For me, and apparently GSP, just beating the sh!t out of somebody round after round is a great feeling. It's like a lion toying with this food, if you know what I mean.
zephead
4/2/10 5:31:25PM
GSP finishes 65% of his fights. Thiago, Fitch and Hardy just proved how tough they are. Most fighters would have been done, those 3 have major balls.

Here's some top fighters and their percentage of fights they finsih:

Rampage - 65%
Wandy - 78%
Hughes - 75% (GSP KO'd and submitted him)
Penn - 80% (GSP verbally made him submit)
Anderson Silva - 76%
Gomi - 50%
Machida - 45%
Liddell - 65%
Fedor - 77%
Big Nog - 68%


I have no problem with how he fights. Like I said, those 3 should have tapped or stayed down, they didn't. They ain't right. GSP is fine. He has a way of just totally dominating fighters. Hardy didn't have marks on him, but if GSP wasn't as classy as he is, he would have went home with Hardy's arm. Greg Jackson will take care of that soon enough.
chickmagnet
4/3/10 3:23:19AM
I think its funny how people said the same thing about Anderson. "If he wants to be the best he has to be exciting", after the fight with Leites. Than he returned and brutally beat down Forrest.

GSP is probably upset with his performance due to the fans criticizing. I would hate to be GSP's next opponent..next time he'll probably rip a limb off to take out frustration
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