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12/28/08 1:23:42AM
Mir vs. Noguiera- I believe the stoppage was a little bit early, but that it would have ended the same anyway. Nogueira's definitely punchy. With that disclaimer being thrown out- WOW. I said it in another thread and I'll say it again- I've always defended Mir's potential in both the standup and on the ground. He was very respectful and very emotional after the fight. I greatly enjoyed what he had to say to the fans afterward. I'm really proud of Mir since I've always been a big fan. I also liked the way he challenged Brock afterward. This just goes to show that in the arguments leading up to tonight's event I believe Mir's complaining about a 5 rd fight legitimately was about bitterness towards Lesnar getting Randy's belt first. I like that there's bad blood between the two, and I like the odds being a lot more evened up for this time around. I will give Brock a much better chance this time around, but I still believe a good guard guy will give Lesnar problems.

Jackson vs. Silva- I think Wandy's punched out for sure. He certainly showed that he belonged in there talent wise, but body wise I don't know if he's going to be able to continue much longer. Much the same as Chuck Liddell and Noguiera. Sad to see the first generation of greats losing their competitive edge Wandy, Chuck, Randy and Noguiera are all absolute legends but their times are quickly passing.

Griffin vs. Evans- There's no denying that Rashad has power in his hands now. His gas tank looked pretty damn good, too. Especially considering he was throwing some serious hay at several points during the fight. He may be very small for a LHW, but he's held his own pretty well if I do say so myself. I've been critical of some of his in-Octagon antics, but the showboating and disrespect aside, one can't deny he's amassed some impressive victories.

Anyway, those are a couple of thoughts that I decided I wanted to throw out there What were you guys' thoughts?
12/28/08 2:09:37AM
I agree Jackelope.

Mir vs. Noguiera - I do feel the stoppage was fine because of the fact that NOG couldn't even stand after wards. That tells me Mir would have just keep pounding on him. I have always thought Mir was a good fight and I feel he truly showed us what he can do tonight. I had a feeling about this fight and it earned me a large amount in real world money just wish I would have made the same bet on here. I think age and Mir starting to become the old Mir wa the major factor in this fight.

Jackson vs. Silva - I agree again Silva looked good I just think age and to many fights are starting to become a factor for Silva.

Griffin vs. Evans - Griffin didn't look bad at all but neither did Evans. But in a rematch I still feel I would take Griffin.
12/28/08 2:15:18AM
Mir/Nog - It was a good stoppage. I was soo impressed with Mir. I think he's going to be big. He will always be around in the top 5. I think Nog needs to work on head movement. He might be able getting a bit old, and beaten up.

Silva/Page - Page will be back! He's a beast. Silva being my favorite fighter, I think he needs to drop down. He needs to work on footwork, and percision.

Forrest/Rashad - Forrest will remain in the top 5 for a long time. And Rashad is going to be a big star! He will be a dominant champ! I think Forrest and Rashad are going to have a cool trilogy.

12/28/08 2:26:20AM
Mir/Nog: First off, as a fan I am sad. The look in Nog's eye after that fight told me everything I need to know. He is a warrior whose body is giving out on him. I thought the fight could have gone on... but I can't complain that much. Nog was consistently getting put on queer street with simple punches. Props to Mir for recognizing his speed advantage on the feet and keeping the fight there. It has been pretty obvious for a while now just looking at Nog that he is physically wearing down. I would not blame him if he hung it up after this fight, and the only sadness I would feel is that so many people fans of the sport will never know what it was like to see Nog in his prime.

Griffin/Evans: Went how I thought it would. Rashad was the quicker fighter with the heavier hands and better wrestling. Forrest showed his reach and nice low kicks but his guard looked like crap with too much emphasis on wrist control that led to him being totally exposed.

Wand/Rampage: If it wasn't for Rampage's issues I think this fight was pretty easy to call. Rampage has the best boxing at 205, both in his crisp punches and stellar 4oz. glove defense. Wandy is still the wild striker he always was with what seems to be a lesser focus on his thai skills and more reliance on his wild hooks that he swings from his hips. The way Wandy is fighting now looks so outdated. He is going to have a real hard time winning until he learns to throw straight... which might not ever happen at this point.

And this speaks to a larger issue that Jackelope brought up... the passing of the second generation of greats. This happens in every sport but it doesn't make it easier. The greats of pre TUF mma are nearing the end of their careers and hopefully the likes of Hughes, Tanner, Nog, Chuck, Randy, Wandy, Pulver, Tito, and those who are doomed by time to soon follow will be recognized for their contribution to the sport. What we have seen from the careers of these and the first gen fighters is that a fighter's relavence in his career usually lasts about 5-10 years. This is sport that takes it's participants and chews them up and spits them out... we owe it to them as fans of the sport to recognize their achievements and allow them a graceful exit.

Kongo/Turk: Don't get into a nutshot contest with Kongo.
12/28/08 2:26:44AM
Nog vs Mir I agree with the stoppage being a little early. You would think someone with Nogueira's history of recovering when he's down and out would have granted him a little more leeway. Either way Mir was picking Noguiera apart on the feet with a better and more well rounded striking game. Nog on the other hand just didn't pull the trigger, and stood in front of Mir or stepped straight back without any lateral movement. Allowing Mir to "be first" cost him the fight tonight among other things.

Silva vs Jackson Wolfslair sent a message tonight. I had my doubts whether the camps training could compare to the more elite MMA camps. Question answered. Rampage looked like he was in great shape.Although Rampage did get the knockout, I noticed his boxing was a lot looser, prefering the big looping hooks in contrast to crisp combinations. Well it worked out anyhow, and rose serious questions for Wanderlei. I don't think he's finished by any stretch, but he has a long road back. I'm sure many are going to call for Silva's retirement and say he can't take a shot anymore, but he also just recently went three rounds with Chuck and took some of his best shots. Quentin just caught him flush with a powerful hook. Wanderlei will be back.

Pat Barry vs Dan Evensen Pat dislayed what many expected; some of the best leg kicks we've seen in MMA; everything he throws has ill intentions. Can't wait to see the inevitable collision between Anoni Hardonk and Barry.

Forrest vs Rashad Forrest vs Rashad played out very much the way I expected. Rashad trying to time Forrest, and Griffin abusing Rashad with leg kicks throughout the first two. Rashad is proving he can finish, and I am really becoming a fan. Is it too late to jump on the Rashad train Gsquat? Forrest will be back but I'm not sure if he can make it back to the top anytime soon.

Kongo vs Al Turk - Kongo's takedown defense looked awesome. Turk has some great takedowns and Kongo completely nullified them. The elbows looked legal to me on the side of the head. I underestimated him big time.

Dolloway vs Massenzio CB continues to look impressive. On the ground he still seems like he's constantly putting himself in position to be submitted, so I thnk that is still an are he needs to improve upon, but he dominated a really good fighter and I think he's ready for the next level of opponents.

Awesome night of fights, I was really pumped we got to see eight fights. Best UFC of the year so far. A lot of upsets tonight, and I think those are typically the most exciting even if a few of the guys I like better didn't win.

Here's hoping that Machida will get a crack at Rashad if and when he beats Thiago Silva.

12/28/08 3:05:21AM
Mir/Nog- I do not like Mir, but will admit he looked good tonight. I wasnt a fan of the trash talking to Brock, makes him look really cocky. Does he want to fight an angry Brock?

Rashaad/Griffin- I really like both fighters and knew I would be dissapointed either way. I was rooting for Evans because I have liked him from TUF 2 and was one of the few defending him on these forums. Now he can get the respect he deserves. I hope to see forestback soon and winning again.

On a side note I am glad hammil won. I really like that guy lol
12/28/08 3:24:21AM
[Silva / Jackson] -- of corse jackson had a good chance to win and showed that, but ultimatly the worst fight ive ever seen being a big fan of silva, it literally made my heart drop to the ground, but im still a fan of rampage, i think i hate this matchup because of the timing as with the liddell / wand fight, imho rampage should still be the champ and would have stomped rashad and wand shouldnt have fought him so soon or at all, where else would they make a trilogy for a guy whos 0-2 against someone, whats next jackson / liddell 3, still win lose or draw im a wand fan for life, best of luck to both

[Nog / Mir] -- another very upsetting fight, nog being a childhood favorite and watching him take on bob sapp, cro cop, fedor, schilt and other giants and reign victorious with heart, and to watch a guy like mir who imo isnt even on the level of fedor what so ever TKO nog for the first time is very upsetting, perhaps time has caught up with nogueira and its time to start thinking about retirement, and everything is looking up for mir at the moment and he has a legit shot to be champ again which i honestly feel will be ripped from him even if he beats brock by the like of dos santos, gonzaga, carwin, cain etc.

[Forrest / Rashad] -- this isnt much of an upset other than i just dont like that cocky boxing mentality in mma, rashad reminds me of Ali in his prime besides being the greatest that is lol he sure tries too hard at imagery, guys like cane, anderson, rampage, hendo, franklin with very technical striking will give him tons of problems and i see him getting ko'd in the future, but congrats to beating forrest hes no slouch

[Al-Turk / Kongo] -- kongo is a dirty fighter with bad character and i dont even want to get into that topic, al-turk showed a lot of heart and never quit so props to him, if i was him i would have pulled a james irvin and gotten a DQ win off of that, especially since kongo actually intended to hit him in the nuts

[Chonan / Blackburn] -- another huge disappointment

[Barry / Evanson] -- watch out for this guy hes for real, altough id like to see a drop down to LH

[Hamill / Andy] -- hamill will be a title contender if he continues to improve the way he is, best fight on the card
12/28/08 3:44:05AM
A crazy card for sure.
Who would of thought you would see Mir finish off Nog that quick? Pretty crazy to think Mir is back to his old ways, and now is back to offically being the #1 guy to beat.

Rampage fight was awsome! Great to see my boy do what he does best, and thats knocking out people. Rampage must feel like 100 bucks after the 2 previous fights with Wandy. Just awsome! What a brutal left too!! Beautiful!
12/28/08 3:51:56AM
It will be interesting to see, rashad on who he has to defend his title against. Since people think Machida will beat Thiago(which I dont) but that would be an interesting match up Evans vs Machida.

Very good card.

Rampage and Mir looked back on track.

Hardonk 3 straight finish

Kongo wins, that would be a match of beasts, kongo vs lesnar.

Mir vs Lesnar 2! Go lesnar!
12/28/08 3:55:53AM
Mir vs Big Nog
Well, who would have thought Mir would be the one who TKO'd Nog? Not me. I thought at the beginning that the stoppage was a wee bit pre-mature, however when i saw Nog try to regain his footing he wobbled a bit. I think that the stoppage was right. Everyone said that Mir looked absolutely amazing, however i think that it wasn't necessarily that, i believe that Nog looked absolutely terrible. He was not the Big Nog of old, he looked so out of place, disoriented, and almost like a 80 year old man in there. It was sad to watch, in my opinion.

Rashad vs Forrest
Wow, basically one of the few picks tonight i did well on. The fight went exactly how i expected it to go, Rashad feeling out the first round or two and Forrest being cautious. I called Rashad with a late second round KO, however it was in the third round when he worked his magic. It was great to see him look so techincal, and so confident in there.
Props to Forrest for not going apeshit and leaving the octagon, great show of class by both fighters. I believe that Rashad's gamesmanship is all apart of his style of fighting.

Wandy vs Rampage
Well, after watching this it was basically a mirror image of Hendo vs Wandy (knockout wise). They showed so much respect for each other at the opening of that round. I believe that Rampage has the best striking or as good of striking as any 205er out there. I'm a giant, and i mean GIANT Wandy fan, and it was hard for me to see that KO. I truly believe that this might be the end of the road of good O'l Wandy. I'd like to see him retire with a win, but knowing his health and well being is alright, i'm happy with that as well. Yes, i do think he may be retiring after this fight, if not very soon.

Pat Barry vs Dan Evensen
Boom, my one solid prediction of the night, haha. I believe that Barry will be a great fighter in the UFC, he has absolutely second to none kicks and great charisma and attitude towards MMA in general. We're basically in limbo about his ground game, however he looked to have a very, very strong clinch.
Pat Barry will be a force at HW, mark my words.

CB vs Massenzio
I think CB is terribly, terribly overrated. He looked decent in this fight, even though he got rattled pretty good. I don't think he will ever amount to anything other than a gate keeper 1st fight of the main card kind of fighter, imo.

Kongo vs BIG TURK
Hilarious, i laughed pretty hard at the mutual nut shots. Went as i predicted, Kongo by first round TKO, not much to say about this one.

Hammil vs Andy
I may have fell asleep during this one, it was god awful, lol.

12/28/08 4:52:57AM
mir shock the world
12/28/08 10:07:12AM
Pretty much all been covered already, but -

Mir vs Big Nog
Mir dominated. I am another thinking the stoppage was too quick - but don't think that would have altered the end result anyway. Mir was quicker & more accurate then Nog - Nog needs to seriously sharpen up his striking if he's to climb back up from here. Or take people down early in fights in his gameplans.

Rashad vs Forrest
What can u say - some very nice shots from Rashad, a well deserved win. I was a tad disappointed with Forrest tho - didn't utilise his kicks or reach quite enough & made the big mistake that Chuck Liddell did - of letting Evans in close! Where he is most dangerous...and so it proved. Forrest can bounce back in this division though - too hard a worker not to.

Wandy vs Rampage
So disappointing. Rampage looked nervous & unsure on his ring entry and very early in that fight. Then Wanderlei showed him too much respect - too much caution - and u could see Rampage's confidence rise & rise as the first round wore on. And then....yeah - KTFO!!

Kongo vs BIG TURK
Haha! Like watching 2 (very big) primary school kids fight! Low blows, wild swings - and Kongo just far too experienced & strong!

Pretty good PPV event overall I thought, I enjoyed it! Even tho some of my favourite fighters got bashed! lol - We even had a UFC virgin - someone in our group watching their first ever event & she is interested enough now that she will watch the next one for sure!
12/28/08 10:37:01AM
Mir vs Noguiera: The stoppage was right on point imo i mean bog couldnt even stand afterwards. But Mir looked like a beast out there last night. His punches were so crisp, he looks focused again, he also looked in real great shape. Go Mir beat lesnar please i'm beggin u lol

Griffin vs Evans: Man evans was losing the first 2 rounds easily then he caught forrest. What i cant stand is how disrespestful he was, blowin a kiss and grabbin his crotch i mean grow a pair rashad be a man show some class. Trash talk is fine before the fight but during the fight i mean come on. Rampage will do whats best for rashad and thats shut him up.

Rampage vs Silva: This was the fight i was most anxious for. Somebody was gettin ko'd in this one and it wasn't rampage this time thank god. Rampage looked nervous at first but he loosened up and through a nice left hook that put silva out cold. Man it was beautiful, Rampage is back, Wolfslair has seemed to do good for him

Best event of the year? I'd say yeah
12/28/08 10:52:33AM
Thanks for all your thoughts, guys I agree with a lot of what has been said.

After posting my original post I started to think that this is actually the second generation of legends. With Bas, Sakuraba, Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, etc. being among the first. You can see how much better and well rounded the greats are becoming in just naming those generations off.

Ncordless, I agree that we, as fans, need to recognize these men for what they've contributed. I would like to see a graceful exit by many of them, but its not up to me. The only way I can think to defend their honor is by informing the less educated fans of who these men were.

Wandy- the PRIDE MW champ for years upon years running. Owner of several of the most brutal finishes in MMA history.

Noguiera- the man who nearly went 40 fights without being finished, the only other fighter I can think of that has done that is Chris Lytle and he hasn't faced near the names Noguiera has. Nog is beyond a legend in my eyes. He's like an MMA God, lol.

12/28/08 11:04:51AM
Mir blew me away with his striking. Where in the hell did that com from? You could see him gaining confidence as the fight went on. I though the stoppage wasa right. Nog has trouble getting up and then standing up.

Kudos to Rampage. Wandy is a warrior. Wandy made tha same mistake Chuck did. Wandy wades in and then dropped his right hand.

As for Rashad, great win. But he just jumped over Tito has the guy I dislike the most. That kiss and then crotch crap is ghetto. Leave that crap in the hood. I hope whoever he fights totally destroys him. That disrespect crap has bnothing to do with this sport.

Overall, a very, very good card
12/28/08 11:22:21AM
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12/28/08 11:34:23AM
i dont have a ton to say about rashad or rampage, they came in and did a great job in fights that were basically toss ups IMO. i did pick them both wrong though

on to mir: first off, WOW, i mean F'N WOW, that was not what i expected at all. going into this card i thought there was one fight among the big 3 that was a lock and boy was i wrong. mir continually threw a baby uppercut that found its mark and nog had ZERO head movement throughout the whole fight, it was shocking to see a guy who has shown such good boxing in the past look like an amateur out there, i really dont know what nog was thinking except that he didnt think mir would be able to strike with him at all. seemed to me he didnt worry about franks stand up at all, and it really cost him, i just cant believe how stiff and timid he looked. on the other hand, mir was tenacious, and you could actually see him gaining confidence like it was a video game or something. yet when i saw mir looking more and more comfortable i kept thinking. "ok nog baited him now hes going to make his move" but nogs move never got made. now we get to the end of the fight and nog is dropped, YET AGAIN BY FRANK MIR, it still shocks me to type it so i had to go caps there. my thought the whole time is, "well nog will lock him up from the bottom and find a sub", but it never happened. then mir unleashes the best GnP of his career and im thinking, "the ref doesnt have to stop this, its nog", but he stops it and nog is on jello legs which basically means it was a pretty good stoppage(although i would have given him a bit more time based on who it was taking those shots). all in all i still am just shocked my what i saw last night, mir deserves all the credit in the world, and i think most fans are a little heartbroken seeing nog take a beating like that, seeing nog get finished is kind of like seeing your dad cry, you know it can happen but you just dont expect it when you finally see it.

this card looked fantastic on paper and went beyond the high expectations i had for it. bravo ufc, and all of last nights fighters, especially frank mir, that was a special win even if its heartbreaking at the same time. now lets get to mir/lesnar 2!!!!!!
12/28/08 2:02:38PM
Overall, pretty good show last night. Some thoughts:

-Barry has some powerful leg kicks man, for real.
-Good to see Hamill back on track with a tko, called that.
-Nice display of rare GnP from Hardonk.
-No surprises in the Kongo fight, had him with the 1st rd tko. Regarless, he looked great. Would like to see him against some better competition again though.
-My boy Massenzio was close to finishing Dolloway
. Very sad to see him lose, but you can't just turtle up like that. Hope to see both fighters again in the near future.
-What a KO by Rampage! CRAZY.I had him winning by UD, but hey. Poor Wandy though, hope everything works out for him.
-Still can't believe the Nog/Mir fight. I never thought in a million years that would happen. Mir has really come into his own. Props to him. Was sad to see Nogueira crying after though, he's such a nice guy.
-Rashad vs Forrest was a good fight, props to both guys. Rashad capitalized with some GnP, but I'm glad he finally proved to everyone he's the real deal with this win.

12/28/08 2:33:42PM
Mir/Nog - Mir looked good. I was surprised that Nog didn't adjust to that lefthand + uppercut combo he kept throwing. Nog just didn't look right.

Rampage/Wandy - I knew the fight would end with a big KO no matter who won. I danno what it was, but Rampage just didn't seem right in the walk-in. I'm almost kinda glad he won so now he won't freak out and go mobbin' down the street takin' folks out again.

Forrest/Rashad - Forrest looked good up until he got caught. I'm not sure why Rashad chooses to act so immature during fights. I mean trash talking and what not is all good to hype a fight, but there is no need for it during the fight. I was really hoping for Forrest to choke that immaturity right out of him.

Kongo/Al Turk - No surprises here. The ding-dong shots made it seem like the longest round ever. I like when Mazzagatti said to Kongo, "I hope that was an accident", when clearly it wasn't.

Barry/Evensen - Barry seems very small for a HW, but his kicks are brutal. He chopped down Evensen pretty easily. A fight between him and Antoni Badonkadonk would be fun to watch.

Hamill/Reese - I am convinced that they need to show Matt Hamill's fights in fast forward, it just seems to me like he fights in slow motion. And not to be mean or rude, but they really need to subtitle his interviews. I know they do it sometimes but when Rogan was talking to him in the cage I couldn't really understand it.
12/29/08 10:28:42AM
I thought Griffin was fighting his fight the whole time and yet still got beat. That has to be disheartening. Griffin is great but he's proven that he can be submitted by strikes. It's happend a couple of times. Rashad has also proven that he has BETTER whiskers than Griffin. If these guys fought 10 times I'd give Griffin 1 of the fights and the other 9 to Rashad. That doesn't diminish Griffin...he's great but he's not as good as Rashad. For as big as he is, he lacks the power to really scare the crap out of his opponents. He has to fight tactically and when he does and loses like that against a smaller opponent whose faster and packs more pop and has a superiour ground game.

I feel the same way about Nog and Mir. Nog is just too slow at this point, has taken too many shots in too many wars. He v. Randy would be good but I fear the outcome would be the same. He can be found too easily and he's too old now. Serioulsy he's only 32 but can you think of a guy who's been in more wars? The Fedor fights alone when he was at his peak would have put some guys into retirement.

Page v. Idon't know. Wandy was tighter than I normally see him. I know guys who trained with him at XC and they were raving about him so I don't think he's washed up. I just think Page caught with an amazing shot.

Wandy v. Lidell is another great match up again....Wandy v. Griffin or Wandy v. Tito. Maybe they could throw him a gimme to regain his confidence again after that KO but I don't think he's washed...maybe not top tier anymore but not washed up.

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