8 Players Expelled From Olympics Amid "Throwing Match" Scandal.

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BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 12:21:00PM
LONDON (AP) — South Korea's appeal of its Olympic disqualification from women's doubles was rejected Wednesday, and Indonesia withdrew its challenge.

Four doubles teams were disqualified from the London Games earlier in the day after trying to lose matches to receive a more favorable place in the tournament. The Badminton World Federation punished the eight players after investigating two teams from South Korea and one each from China and Indonesia. South Korea and Indonesia appealed, but China accepted the federation's decision.


Article

Yes, I realize that we have an Olympics thread, but I don't think disgraced athletes belong in that thread. They deserve their own.
Theoutlaw08
8/1/12 12:44:25PM
I was reading on this and I can understand why they did it. I think its bullshit that they were trying to throw a game so they can have a better spot or more favorable matchup in the tourney. Thats completely taking the integrity of the game. Glad they were expelled.
postman
8/1/12 1:02:49PM
Teams do it all the time to get a better draft pick. And I'm sure if the teams had a chance they would do it to get a favorable wild card match up they would as well. I watched the video though and that was pretty weak the way they did it.

BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 1:10:18PM

Posted by postman

Teams do it all the time to get a better draft pick. And I'm sure if the teams had a chance they would do it to get a favorable wild card match up they would as well. I watched the video though and that was pretty weak the way they did it.




Honestly, I don't think people are pissed that they tried to lose to get a better draw. I think they're more pissed about the fact that they didn't even try to hide it. It was horribly obvious that both teams were TRYING to lose. Fans hate that shit. If you're gonna lie to us, lie to us without us knowing.
postman
8/1/12 1:24:08PM
I agree
kopower
8/1/12 1:34:35PM
Agreed. It was blatantly obvious they were trying to lose. Glad they got called out, and booted.
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 1:34:57PM
Obviously, I'd prefer it if everyone gave it 110%, but I understand strategy. This sort of a strategy is not without consequence and I'm not talking about this type of stuff. Anytime you intentionally lose, you leave a lot of things up to chance. It can bite you in the ass.


What they did is ridiculous, though. They deserved to be expelled. If nothing else because they were stupid enough to make it obvious.
Bubbles
8/1/12 1:36:22PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Honestly, I don't think people are pissed that they tried to lose to get a better draw. I think they're more pissed about the fact that they didn't even try to hide it. It was horribly obvious that both teams were TRYING to lose. Fans hate that shit. If you're gonna lie to us, lie to us without us knowing.


how is this any different than teams "resting" their starters at the end of the season when they can move up/down in the standings? NBA teams do it fairly often, and I remember when the Penguins benched Crosby and Malkin in the final game of the 2007/2008 season so they would have to play the Senators instead of the Bruins in the first round of playoffs. How about when soccer teams purposely play for a draw?

More importantly, why hasn't Bob Sapp been investigated yet?
FlashyG
8/1/12 1:38:09PM
While I agree this is probably worthy of its own thread, it would have been a funny addition to the "Olympics I DO NOT give a shit" thread simply because neither did these 8 players.

I can't imagine what it feels like to throw away 4 years of work because you wanted a better draw in the knockout stages.
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 1:41:18PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Honestly, I don't think people are pissed that they tried to lose to get a better draw. I think they're more pissed about the fact that they didn't even try to hide it. It was horribly obvious that both teams were TRYING to lose. Fans hate that shit. If you're gonna lie to us, lie to us without us knowing.


how is this any different than teams "resting" their starters at the end of the season when they can move up/down in the standings? NBA teams do it fairly often, and I remember when the Penguins benched Crosby and Malkin in the final game of the 2007/2008 season so they would have to play the Senators instead of the Bruins in the first round of playoffs. How about when soccer teams purposely play for a draw?

More importantly, why hasn't Bob Sapp been investigated yet?



Well, this is different because it doesn't work like the NFL or NBA. While I actually agree with you about the principle of the matter, the execution is something entirely different.

If Badminton worked like swimming where you can use your "weaker" swimmers to qualify for a relay, but you can actually use anyone IN the finals of the relay, for sure.

As it stands, they can't do that. It's not within the rules. Trust me, we're just as hard on players who mail it in while they're playing. That's the difference here. Resting your starters is exactly that. Mailing it in? Way different. The unwritten rule of throwing matches is that you at least make it look like you're trying.

They went out of their way to make it look like they WEREN'T trying.
kopower
8/1/12 1:45:21PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

Honestly, I don't think people are pissed that they tried to lose to get a better draw. I think they're more pissed about the fact that they didn't even try to hide it. It was horribly obvious that both teams were TRYING to lose. Fans hate that shit. If you're gonna lie to us, lie to us without us knowing.


how is this any different than teams "resting" their starters at the end of the season when they can move up/down in the standings? NBA teams do it fairly often, and I remember when the Penguins benched Crosby and Malkin in the final game of the 2007/2008 season so they would have to play the Senators instead of the Bruins in the first round of playoffs. How about when soccer teams purposely play for a draw?

More importantly, why hasn't Bob Sapp been investigated yet?



On a local note, I loved when Mark Madsen playing for the Wolves a few years back, jacked up like 7 three's during a game close to the end of the season. The local media was all over them for making an obvious attempt to lose the game and gain a better chance to move up in the lottery.
Shawn91111
8/1/12 2:01:22PM
Roy Jones Jr approves

scoozna
8/1/12 2:11:37PM
lol @ the Bob Sapp comment.

Do I understand it correctly that BOTH teams were trying to throw the match against EACH OTHER??? That just sucks. They deserve the boot.
FlashyG
8/1/12 2:20:13PM

Posted by scoozna

lol @ the Bob Sapp comment.

Do I understand it correctly that BOTH teams were trying to throw the match against EACH OTHER??? That just sucks. They deserve the boot.



My understanding is that the Chinese team didn't want to have to face the other Chinese team until the gold medal match so they tried to lose to get into the other bracket. Apparently they use this strategy often.

It seems the other teams were attempting to lose on purpose to get favorable match-ups in the next round as well. So 4 teams were all trying to lose for similar reasons.
Franklinfan47
8/1/12 3:09:01PM
I dont have any issue with the punishment.

Play to win you dummies, its the friggen olympics!
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 3:10:55PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by scoozna

lol @ the Bob Sapp comment.

Do I understand it correctly that BOTH teams were trying to throw the match against EACH OTHER??? That just sucks. They deserve the boot.



My understanding is that the Chinese team didn't want to have to face the other Chinese team until the gold medal match so they tried to lose to get into the other bracket. Apparently they use this strategy often.

It seems the other teams were attempting to lose on purpose to get favorable match-ups in the next round as well. So 4 teams were all trying to lose for similar reasons.



Just to add to that, it appears that Indonesia is using the "he started it" defense. Saying that it was a domino effect to offset what China was doing.
FlashyG
8/1/12 4:04:38PM
This could have all been avoided by getting rid of the round robin.

If losing a match ended your games, you can be certain none of this garbage would ever happen again.
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 4:08:22PM

Posted by FlashyG

This could have all been avoided by getting rid of the round robin.

If losing a match ended your games, you can be certain none of this garbage would ever happen again.



Truth, I always think it's crappy that some sports have one and done rules while other sports let you pull crap like this because of their setup.
Bubbles
8/1/12 5:12:23PM

Posted by kopower

On a local note, I loved when Mark Madsen playing for the Wolves a few years back, jacked up like 7 three's during a game close to the end of the season. The local media was all over them for making an obvious attempt to lose the game and gain a better chance to move up in the lottery.


this Mark Madsen?

Bubbles
8/1/12 5:14:29PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by FlashyG

This could have all been avoided by getting rid of the round robin.

If losing a match ended your games, you can be certain none of this garbage would ever happen again.



Truth, I always think it's crappy that some sports have one and done rules while other sports let you pull crap like this because of their setup.


I agree. Tennis, win or go home. Badminton, round robin. Doesn't make much sense to me, even if their normal tournaments outside the Olympics have such structure
Bubbles
8/1/12 5:22:28PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

As it stands, they can't do that. It's not within the rules. Trust me, we're just as hard on players who mail it in while they're playing. That's the difference here. Resting your starters is exactly that. Mailing it in? Way different. The unwritten rule of throwing matches is that you at least make it look like you're trying.

They went out of their way to make it look like they WEREN'T trying.


Benching players when you have a playoff seed locked up vs still playing for seeds is different. As an example, Peyton Manning isn't going to play much in week 16 and 17 if Denver has the division and the #3 seed locked up, but I'm sure he will play all game if they are battling for #2 seed. Now if its a battle between #3 and #4 seed and if Denver loses they play the Bills or win they play the Steelers, chances are likely they will limit Manning's time so they can play Buffalo first round.

How is that any different than what happened here except that rather than the player physically losing the game, they instead play their practice squad?
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 5:27:08PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

As it stands, they can't do that. It's not within the rules. Trust me, we're just as hard on players who mail it in while they're playing. That's the difference here. Resting your starters is exactly that. Mailing it in? Way different. The unwritten rule of throwing matches is that you at least make it look like you're trying.

They went out of their way to make it look like they WEREN'T trying.


Benching players when you have a playoff seed locked up vs still playing for seeds is different. As an example, Peyton Manning isn't going to play much in week 16 and 17 if Denver has the division and the #3 seed locked up, but I'm sure he will play all game if they are battling for #2 seed. Now if its a battle between #3 and #4 seed and if Denver loses they play the Bills or win they play the Steelers, chances are likely they will limit Manning's time so they can play Buffalo first round.

How is that any different than what happened here except that rather than the player physically losing the game, they instead play their practice squad?



Because the product they ARE putting on the field is giving it 100%. You think Curtis Painter wanted to play crappy with Manning being saved for the post-season? These guys want to win even more than Manning, but they just can't.

You can bet your ass that if Peyton ever started intentionally throwing interceptions and fumbling the ball to get a better seed, he'd be booted from the NFL. That would be the same thing.

These players were INTENTIONALLY hitting things out, into the net, and letting things drop in play.
prophecy033
8/1/12 5:33:21PM
Makes me wonder what else the Chinese are doing/willing to do to be the top country in the Olympics
Lungsofsteel
8/1/12 5:57:23PM
hmmm sounds like something bob sapp would do XD
SpiderSilva
8/1/12 7:22:40PM
when i heard about this it made me LOL. it's cool cause it happened in the Olympics but fucking ass h's!!!
Aether
8/1/12 7:27:42PM
Honestly, when things like this happen, I blame the tournament organizers more than the athletes. That's why we should have seeds and brackets organized in such a way that you aren't rewarded for losing.

I don't know all of the specifics, but this is a common thing in any form of competition, from video games to sports. If the easiest route to first place involves taking an intentional loss, I can't blame a competitor for taking that path. Forget "honor" or whatever nonsense people complain about. Competitors want to win, and if winning the war means losing a battle, so be it.
KungFuMaster
8/1/12 7:53:27PM

Posted by postman

Teams do it all the time to get a better draft pick. And I'm sure if the teams had a chance they would do it to get a favorable wild card match up they would as well. I watched the video though and that was pretty weak the way they did it.




I used to play local volley ball tournaments under round robin and we would do the same thing. The loser bracket is a much easier route to the finals. Sports is competitive and I don't perceive this as cheating. I perceive it as strategic - but of course, under Olympic traditions and spirits, it is frowned upon and I wholeheartedly agree but I wouldn't categorize it as disgraceful. Disgrace would be cheating, doping, unsportsmanlike conduct, taunting etc. What these players did is ...I don't know - I don't have the correct word to describe it. It's not quite a dishonorable thing. It's like throwing a little fib. That's the best way I can describe it.
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 8:18:24PM

Posted by Aether

Honestly, when things like this happen, I blame the tournament organizers more than the athletes. That's why we should have seeds and brackets organized in such a way that you aren't rewarded for losing.

I don't know all of the specifics, but this is a common thing in any form of competition, from video games to sports. If the easiest route to first place involves taking an intentional loss, I can't blame a competitor for taking that path. Forget "honor" or whatever nonsense people complain about. Competitors want to win, and if winning the war means losing a battle, so be it.



I honestly don't think this is the issue. It's not THAT they threw the game, it's HOW they threw the game.

What they did was disrespectful to their opponents. Everyone has been in a situation where they have been stuck trying to play a game with that ONE person who refuses to take it seriously and makes a mockery of it.

It's fucking miserable to play with that person. You want to throw the game for the sake of strategy? Fine, but throw it in a way that your opponent can only say, "I'm not sure, but I don't think they were trying."

Don't throw it in a way that they say, "why they hell did they even show up if they weren't gonna take it seriously."
BlueSkiesBurn
8/1/12 8:20:35PM
Since it's on an MMA board, if people are upset THAT they threw the game, then they also need to be pissed at fighters who refuse to fight their teammates.
george112
8/1/12 8:28:14PM
Eh. They got kicked out. They got what was coming.

However at the same time its called strategy. If the rules allow you to technically do something then why not?

Yeah the fans don't like it but a games objective is to win. Always
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