Pic: Matt Hughes flies to Africa, kills giant antelope

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cowcatcher
9/20/12 12:35:16PM

Posted by DancingDoll


Posted by Poor_Franklin

my best friend in high school's father is a multi millionaire & he went to Africa to "hunt". i found out afterwards that "hunting" meant being driven up to the animal he wanted to kill & shooting it from about 15-25 yards distance. if this is what matt & his son did, then i am not surprised bc i expect nothing less from him. But if he shot the animal, from a good range, & it was in a wild habitat & not in a contained area, then i have no problem with it.




This is exactly right. Big exotic game quarantined (ie. trapped) on a 'hunting reserve' where little boys who want to feel like big men from around the globe can come over, be driven around and get to fire a rifle and watch a beautiful animal die for a nice photo op and something to mount on the wall back home. These 'reserves' are well-stocked so big kills are guaranteed in the shortest amount of hunting time. You pay the cash, they set you up with something big to shoot.

Sorry, DD is *not* impressed.

I get that hunting for food happens, but this is sport hunting first and foremost and totally ego-driven. What kind of BBQs are they having on those reserves, anyway? I think people are deluding themselves if they think all that meat is being used. Maybe a few choice cuts butchered here and there but those animals are *huge* and the reserve primarily makes its money from all the rich white foreigners who pay top $$ to run around shooting animals and taking pictures. How many animals are killed on an average day - and how big are the stomachs at their resort restaurants. Let's call a spade a spade - it's sport hunting - that's where the money and priority is, and that's the focus.

Shooting a defenceless animal on a game reserve with a gun and watching it die doesn't impress. Taking a picture and then stuffing and hanging it's head on your wall at home is even more pathetic. Anyone can do it. Even a six year old. How is that cool?

Just my opinion.





I get what you're saying, but the one thing I take exception to is that you think the majority of the meat isn't eaten. We're talking about Africa here, they are not in a position to waste, and if this was on a big game reserve specifically set up for hunting then I'm sure they have plenty of staff to feed as well as guests. I can't see much being wasted there, it just doesn't make sense.
Svartorm
9/20/12 2:19:35PM
I just want to point out that this kind of hunting is the largest form of income in many parts of Africa. These animals are tended by villages, whom then sell "hunting packages" to rich guys. They charge the hunter room and board and charger per animal. The hunter pays out the ass for the privilage of shooting one of their animals, and then the meat feeds the village.

It's really no different than an apple orchard that lets you pick your own apples, and is the only income most areas of Africa have.

If you don't like the idea animals don't have a "fighting chance", you should probably avoid the supermarket too.
postman
9/20/12 2:53:42PM

Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



I love ya George but this is one of the most misguided ignorant posts I have ever read. First off who are any of you to judge hunters yet your a fan of a sport that no matter how you look at it really is nothing more then Human cock fighting? A sport that has faced so many critics now all of a sudden you guys want to attack Hunters? Secondly it is not at all easy to get behind a Gun and kill an animal. It can be made easier for sure and is much harder then with a bow. But you do realize they are in the african desert in extream heat with little to hide them and predators everywhere if anything its far harder then your average deer hunt. Lastly Big Game Hunting is big money all over the world Countrys like the ones in Africa can use all the money they can get. I'm shocked at everyone is on their high horse.
Poor_Franklin
9/20/12 2:55:38PM
honestly, i never considered all the money these guys spend going towards a specific village or the meat from the hunt feeding that village too. if that is the case, i honestly dont have as much of a problem with it.

i still hate the rich pricks that need their trophies to enlarge their penis size
prophecy033
9/20/12 3:20:40PM
Where I'm from, we hunt. We hunt Elk, Doe, and Ducks. We eat what we hunt and not to "feel the power". I don't expect everyone to like it just like you don't expect everyone to "get on board" with what you do. Fathers and sons bond over hunting vacations and carry that bond through life. My dad and I never really bonded when I was younger because we saw things differently. I played sports but he never did and never came to watch. He is an amazing guitar player but I'm not musically inclined. Once I was older, the one thing we bonded over was that time out in the woods. We only ever got our limit once or twice but it wasn't so much about that as it was about doing something together. He's too old now to go out but we still go shooting. I love the fact that we had that time together.

Just so you all know, I see both sides. Pointless killing of animals is just that, pointless. But if you kill an animal for the meat and you take it home and feed your family, I have no problem with that
DancingDoll
9/20/12 3:28:50PM

Posted by cowcatcher

I get what you're saying, but the one thing I take exception to is that you think the majority of the meat isn't eaten. We're talking about Africa here, they are not in a position to waste, and if this was on a big game reserve specifically set up for hunting then I'm sure they have plenty of staff to feed as well as guests. I can't see much being wasted there, it just doesn't make sense.



There is soooo much corruption in many of these countries. Zimbabwe is fairly lawless when it comes to these hunts, for example - which is why it's popular. Bribery is rife and illegal poaching hides behind 'legal hunting' like this. In certain areas, you pay a little more and you get to do a little more. It's a slippery slope.

Plus the money made is pocketed by a select few, not distributed for the welfare of a village. In many cases, tribes and villagers are displaced for choice 'reserve land'. In other words, the government just evicts you because tourism and hunting always get to take the best land.

I also don't believe in the charitable image of the starving African village with malnourished children waiting with hopeful eyes outside their mud huts for the noble safari-clad rich foreigners with their rifles to deliver jeep-loads of elephant, lion and zebra meat for their well being and nourishment. I think some meat gets used but I don't think it's as clean cut and altruistic as they want us to believe. Corrupt bribe-friendly countries and rich foreigners with money to burn (ie the Trump boys) contains all the elements that are ripe for *really* bad things to go down.

A large part of the industry, esp. in South Africa is all *canned* trophy hunting which is basically where animals are bred 'puppy-mill' style, half-tame and often tranquilized or drugged first so less-skilled hunters with bad shot are able to nab the kills they want. With lions for example, they often just cull (ie. kill) the female lions after they're born because they're not as valuable to raise for hunters that want a lion with "a big mane". They are released barely matured onto 100 acre 'game reserves' so rich douchebags can shoot them. The hunter barely has to break a sweat.

The focus is on getting the pics and the stuffed head to mount on the wall and bragging rights. Some guide patting Joe Hunter on the back and saying "hey don't worry about it, someone will probably eat the ten exotic animals you just shot" isn't really what the point of what real sustainable hunting is supposed to be.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. The subject of poaching and trophy hunting always gets me riled up.
Cooler
9/20/12 3:32:27PM

Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



There's plenty of animals you wouldn't be able to kill with a bow or gun, which under this logic means that you aren't at the top of the food chain. Homo Sapiens are absolutely not at the top of the food chain. We are the most evolved sure but top of the food chain we are not.
Cooler
9/20/12 3:34:49PM

Posted by DancingDoll


Posted by cowcatcher

I get what you're saying, but the one thing I take exception to is that you think the majority of the meat isn't eaten. We're talking about Africa here, they are not in a position to waste, and if this was on a big game reserve specifically set up for hunting then I'm sure they have plenty of staff to feed as well as guests. I can't see much being wasted there, it just doesn't make sense.



There is soooo much corruption in many of these countries. Zimbabwe is fairly lawless when it comes to these hunts, for example - which is why it's popular. Bribery is rife and illegal poaching hides behind 'legal hunting' like this. In certain areas, you pay a little more and you get to do a little more. It's a slippery slope.

Plus the money made is pocketed by a select few, not distributed for the welfare of a village. In many cases, tribes and villagers are displaced for choice 'reserve land'. In other words, the government just evicts you because tourism and hunting always get to take the best land.

I also don't believe in the charitable image of the starving African village with malnourished children waiting with hopeful eyes outside their mud huts for the noble safari-clad rich foreigners with their rifles to deliver jeep-loads of elephant, lion and zebra meat for their well being and nourishment. I think some meat gets used but I don't think it's as clean cut and altruistic as they want us to believe. Corrupt bribe-friendly countries and rich foreigners with money to burn (ie the Trump boys) contains all the elements that are ripe for *really* bad things to go down.

A large part of the industry, esp. in South Africa is all *canned* trophy hunting which is basically where animals are bred 'puppy-mill' style, half-tame and often tranquilized or drugged first so less-skilled hunters with bad shot are able to nab the kills they want. With lions for example, they often just cull (ie. kill) the female lions after they're born because they're not as valuable to raise for hunters that want a lion with "a big mane". They are released barely matured onto 100 acre 'game reserves' so rich douchebags can shoot them. The hunter barely has to break a sweat.

The focus is on getting the pics and the stuffed head to mount on the wall and bragging rights. Some guide patting Joe Hunter on the back and saying "hey don't worry about it, someone will probably eat the ten exotic animals you just shot" isn't really what the point of what real sustainable hunting is supposed to be.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. The subject of poaching and trophy hunting always gets me riled up.



I'm with you all the way, hunting for sport is savagely.
george112
9/20/12 4:09:24PM

Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



There's plenty of animals you wouldn't be able to kill with a bow or gun[\B], which under this logic means that you aren't at the top of the food chain. Homo Sapiens are absolutely not at the top of the food chain. We are the most evolved sure but top of the food chain we are not.



Name 5 animals that can't be killed by a bow or gun.

But the fact that we have the means to kill anything we want makes us the top of the food chain.

Our intelligence is our weapon. Just as teeth are for sharks. Just as claws are for lions. Just as brute strength is for gorillas.

george112
9/20/12 4:31:26PM

Posted by postman


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



I love ya George but this is one of the most misguided ignorant posts I have ever read. First off who are any of you to judge hunters yet your a fan of a sport that no matter how you look at it really is nothing more then Human cock fighting? A sport that has faced so many critics now all of a sudden you guys want to attack Hunters? Secondly it is not at all easy to get behind a Gun and kill an animal. It can be made easier for sure and is much harder then with a bow. But you do realize they are in the african desert in extream heat with little to hide them and predators everywhere if anything its far harder then your average deer hunt. Lastly Big Game Hunting is big money all over the world Countrys like the ones in Africa can use all the money they can get. I'm shocked at everyone is on their high horse.



Dude seriously UFC involving 2 humans fighting for sport has nothing to do with shooting an animal with a rifle.

IMO "hunting" with a rifle isn't true "hunting" . It's just shooting something that doesn't even know your there with a guaranteed kill. If you miss that's your fault. The only chance that animal had was someone not being a good shot.

Seriously harder then the average deer hunt!!!?? That blows my mind. These guys are on guided "hunts" they get driven to where the animals are and they take their pick of which to shoot.

Their is no tracking or anything like that like their is here in the states. Not saying their isn't but animals like the aforementioned deer have to actually be hunted.

If you were a bigass male buffalo would you spook to a lowly small human? Probably not. Because you see yourself big enough to defend yourself . Which is why you see more instances of huge big animals attacking humans. (bears,rhinos,hippos,lions,tigers. You get the point) a deer will not stand up to a human and when they do its not like its a common thing.

Hunting with a bow levels the playing field so to speak. You have to actually be hunting to get a kill. Which includes having to get close enough to the animal to get a kill.

It's easy to shoot something from 300+ yards with a gun. Big game hunting shouldn't even be associated with the word sport. All it is is how far away can I get from the animal while still killing it. Target practice. The only skill is aim. That's all you need. You could take a 12 year old who has never hunted in his life hand him a gun and he could do it.literally

Also the heat??? We are humans. We are smart enough to not let that bother us. That factor I'm not sure why would add to the difficulty . It would just be hot. I know Texas isn't Africa but it sure as hell gets plenty hot here. I'm sure sitting in a deer blind on a hot ass day is hell here too

Lastly I highly highly doubt big game hunting is so important to Africa's economy. The country exports diamonds for Christ's sake.

Love ya too postman
infestructure
9/20/12 4:37:33PM

Posted by postman


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



I love ya George but this is one of the most misguided ignorant posts I have ever read. First off who are any of you to judge hunters yet your a fan of a sport that no matter how you look at it really is nothing more then Human cock fighting? A sport that has faced so many critics now all of a sudden you guys want to attack Hunters? Secondly it is not at all easy to get behind a Gun and kill an animal. It can be made easier for sure and is much harder then with a bow. But you do realize they are in the african desert in extream heat with little to hide them and predators everywhere if anything its far harder then your average deer hunt. Lastly Big Game Hunting is big money all over the world Countrys like the ones in Africa can use all the money they can get. I'm shocked at everyone is on their high horse.



Sorry postman, I normally like your posts, but this one is a little fucked up imo. The human cock fighting comment obviously is gonna have no sway on an MMA forum. The guys are adults,highly trained and they sign contracts, they know what they are getting into. The animals on the game reserves don't sign contracts, they can't read them, and wouldn't understand them if they could. Plus lacking opposable thumbs it's kinda hard to hold a pen. If they could understand and sign a contract, they would make a few amendments like not getting shot and no mounting of severed heads.
Secondly it IS easy to get behind a gun and kill an animal, as I mentioned in a previous post, I have hunted animals that are classed as pests in NZ. And your average deer hunt is usually in mountainous/hilly terrain, and the deer are usually few and far between and have been hunted so long their evasion tactics are supreme, so there is a lot of walking to be done - not driving like in Africa.
The animals in Africa move slower, have less cover (vantage points for the shooter are better), are bigger and have less defences against hunters than deer, so using the average deer hunt was a bad example.
Lastly I agree, countries like the ones in Africa need money, but that comes from sorting out inner turmoil and the idiocy of it's leaders. Not shooting a few amazing animals.
george112
9/20/12 4:40:09PM

Posted by infestructure


Posted by postman


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



I love ya George but this is one of the most misguided ignorant posts I have ever read. First off who are any of you to judge hunters yet your a fan of a sport that no matter how you look at it really is nothing more then Human cock fighting? A sport that has faced so many critics now all of a sudden you guys want to attack Hunters? Secondly it is not at all easy to get behind a Gun and kill an animal. It can be made easier for sure and is much harder then with a bow. But you do realize they are in the african desert in extream heat with little to hide them and predators everywhere if anything its far harder then your average deer hunt. Lastly Big Game Hunting is big money all over the world Countrys like the ones in Africa can use all the money they can get. I'm shocked at everyone is on their high horse.



Sorry postman, I normally like your posts, but this one is a little misguided imo. The human cock fighting comment obviously is gonna have no sway on an MMA forum. The guys are adults,highly trained and they sign contracts, they know what they are getting into. The animals on the game reserves don't sign contracts, they can't read them, and wouldn't understand them if they could. Plus lacking opposable thumbs it's kinda hard to hold a pen. If they could understand and sign a contract, they would make a few amendments like not getting shot and no mounting of severed heads.
Secondly it IS easy to get behind a gun and kill an animal, as I mentioned in a previous post, I have hunted animals that are classed as pests in NZ. And your average deer hunt is usually in mountainous/hilly terrain, and the deer are usually few and far between and have been hunted so long their evasion tactics are supreme, so there is a lot of walking to be done - not driving like in Africa.
The animals in Africa move slower, have less cover (vantage points for the shooter are better), are bigger and have less defences against hunters than deer, so using the average deer hunt was a bad example.
Lastly I agree, countries like the ones in Africa need money, but that comes from sorting out inner turmoil and the idiocy of it's leaders. Not shooting a few amazing animals.



It's like you read my mind.

Read above post
Cooler
9/20/12 5:14:10PM

Posted by george112


Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



There's plenty of animals you wouldn't be able to kill with a bow or gun[\B], which under this logic means that you aren't at the top of the food chain. Homo Sapiens are absolutely not at the top of the food chain. We are the most evolved sure but top of the food chain we are not.



Name 5 animals that can't be killed by a bow or gun.

But the fact that we have the means to kill anything we want makes us the top of the food chain.

Our intelligence is our weapon. Just as teeth are for sharks. Just as claws are for lions. Just as brute strength is for gorillas.




There's lots of things that cant be killed by a bow or gun, a Bear being the best example, shooting a bear with a bow would just piss him off, even a headshot. And sometimes headshots with guns won't put a bear down. So right there you have weapons that YOU need in a fight with another animal because you have no natural defense against them except to use weapons. A chimp could use a rock to smash your head in because he's stronger than you and used his brain to kill you, would you be willing to have a knife fight with a chimp? I wouldn't bet against the chimp that's for sure. A whale would probably need to be taken out with a water proof bazooka of some sort, no single person with a gun or spear could kill a giant blue whale. Even in the water your best weapon against a Shark or an Orca probably gives you a slim chance at winning at best. Lots of animals can use their intelligence to kill you; there used to be giant Eagles who would prey on early humans with stealth and cunning. I would obviously concede we are the smartest but claiming top of the food chain because you have weapons and numbers is arrogant, it's akin to being proud of shooting Bears in a cage. Give yourself those claws and teeth of the predators and you still lose, we are the ones who had to adapt to a world of predators, and it took millions of years to overcome them, mostly because of our numbers though, not so much because we are smarter, if Lions or Bears were as abundant as us we'd have a major clash of species still.
george112
9/20/12 5:29:13PM

Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112


Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



There's plenty of animals you wouldn't be able to kill with a bow or gun[\B], which under this logic means that you aren't at the top of the food chain. Homo Sapiens are absolutely not at the top of the food chain. We are the most evolved sure but top of the food chain we are not.



Name 5 animals that can't be killed by a bow or gun.

But the fact that we have the means to kill anything we want makes us the top of the food chain.

Our intelligence is our weapon. Just as teeth are for sharks. Just as claws are for lions. Just as brute strength is for gorillas




There's lots of things that cant be killed by a bow or gun, a Bear being the best example, shooting a bear with a bow would just piss him off, even a headshot. And sometimes headshots with guns won't put a bear down. So right there you have weapons that YOU need in a fight with another animal because you have no natural defense against them except to use weapons. A chimp could use a rock to smash your head in because he's stronger than you and used his brain to kill you, would you be willing to have a knife fight with a chimp? I wouldn't bet against the chimp that's for sure. A whale would probably need to be taken out with a water proof bazooka of some sort, no single person with a gun or spear could kill a giant blue whale. Even in the water your best weapon against a Shark or an Orca probably gives you a slim chance at winning at best. Lots of animals can use their intelligence to kill you; there used to be giant Eagles who would prey on early humans with stealth and cunning. I would obviously concede we are the smartest but claiming top of the food chain because you have weapons and numbers is arrogant, it's akin to being proud of shooting Bears in a cage. Give yourself those claws and teeth of the predators and you still lose, we are the ones who had to adapt to a world of predators, and it took millions of years to overcome them, mostly because of our numbers though, not so much because we are smarter, if Lions or Bears were as abundant as us we'd have a major clash of species still.

Every instance you suggested would totally be dependent on what kind of weapon you would have selected. Obviously you could in fact kill a bear with let's say a fifty caliber. Hell I'm sure I could take out my 330 and go out and take out a good sized bear with it.

For you to say intelligence has not much to do with it is just mind blowing. The same intelligence I'm talking about is enabling you to even post and discuss this on the computer.

Me with gun vs. Chimp with ANYTHING - I come out victorious


Also have you ever seen the show Whale Wars?

That right there is my response to your whale and ocean comment
Cooler
9/20/12 6:06:41PM

Posted by george112


Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112


Posted by Cooler


Posted by george112

When I read the thread title I was already thinking how I was gonna post about this bothering me for some reason


I personally have been hunting a few times. Hog hunting that is. It's a needed thing around here in Texas.


However I think taking big game like with a rifle is cowardly. Anyone can get behind a fireman and shoot a bullet an kill an animal. Its TOO easy.


I feel like animals .especially big animals like that deserve some respect from us humans. Give it a fair shake and hunt with a bow. If you can't kill it with a bow then concede defeat and try again some other time. Don't take the easy way out and use a rifle.


Pansy.


We are lucky as humans really. Top of the food chain. Nothing to put us in our place. Nobody can even imagine being hunted by some higher species. Being made to do things. Makes me sick



There's plenty of animals you wouldn't be able to kill with a bow or gun[\B], which under this logic means that you aren't at the top of the food chain. Homo Sapiens are absolutely not at the top of the food chain. We are the most evolved sure but top of the food chain we are not.



Name 5 animals that can't be killed by a bow or gun.

But the fact that we have the means to kill anything we want makes us the top of the food chain.

Our intelligence is our weapon. Just as teeth are for sharks. Just as claws are for lions. Just as brute strength is for gorillas




There's lots of things that cant be killed by a bow or gun, a Bear being the best example, shooting a bear with a bow would just piss him off, even a headshot. And sometimes headshots with guns won't put a bear down. So right there you have weapons that YOU need in a fight with another animal because you have no natural defense against them except to use weapons. A chimp could use a rock to smash your head in because he's stronger than you and used his brain to kill you, would you be willing to have a knife fight with a chimp? I wouldn't bet against the chimp that's for sure. A whale would probably need to be taken out with a water proof bazooka of some sort, no single person with a gun or spear could kill a giant blue whale. Even in the water your best weapon against a Shark or an Orca probably gives you a slim chance at winning at best. Lots of animals can use their intelligence to kill you; there used to be giant Eagles who would prey on early humans with stealth and cunning. I would obviously concede we are the smartest but claiming top of the food chain because you have weapons and numbers is arrogant, it's akin to being proud of shooting Bears in a cage. Give yourself those claws and teeth of the predators and you still lose, we are the ones who had to adapt to a world of predators, and it took millions of years to overcome them, mostly because of our numbers though, not so much because we are smarter, if Lions or Bears were as abundant as us we'd have a major clash of species still.

Every instance you suggested would totally be dependent on what kind of weapon you would have selected. Obviously you could in fact kill a bear with let's say a fifty caliber. Hell I'm sure I could take out my 330 and go out and take out a good sized bear with it.

For you to say intelligence has not much to do with it is just mind blowing. The same intelligence I'm talking about is enabling you to even post and discuss this on the computer.

Me with gun vs. Chimp with ANYTHING - I come out victorious


Also have you ever seen the show Whale Wars?

That right there is my response to your whale and ocean comment



Because I debunked you by saying a Chimp could use his intelligence and brawn to beat you with most weapons you could find laying around like a rock or a big stick... you picked a gun against a monkey, the best you can do is premeditated killing then because you probably wouldn't be prepared with a gun unless you were a sicko hunting for sport. If you have a gun vs. a chimp you are a fucking coward if you use a sniper against a Bear you are a coward, that's all there is to it. If you use a bazooka or machine guns against a whale on a boat, you are a coward, get in the water with the whale if you want that top of the food chain moniker, use a knife against a shark if you think you are above the shark, and the myriad of animals that would eat you without a pussy-ass weapon in your hand. Until then you're just another arrogant ape claiming to be at the "top of the food chain"when the only way you can overcome is to use excessive force that you do not possess without at the least a gun or explosives. I already conceded that we were the smartest and that makes us the most dominate species but only because of evolutionary factors like numbers and intelligence.
cowcatcher
9/20/12 6:12:06PM
Take it easy guys, no reason for anyone to get too crazy in here after you've said your opinions on hunting. Let's let this die, or let others try to bring in a fresh perspective rather than arguing.
Poor_Franklin
9/20/12 6:14:37PM
george112
9/20/12 6:28:23PM
Hey cooler, you may or may not know it but you basically agreed with everything I said in my first post


All that coward stuff you said . I said that



And the evolution comment.


We aren't the only ones who evolved. Evolving shouldn't be held against us like your making it out to be. So because we're smart enough to create something we shouldn't be considered top of the food chain? What makes us not the top of the food chain?

Being on top of the food chain holds no bias towards being more evolved or the smartest. It just so happened that we happened to be all that. Could easily have been some other species who had some sort of greater intelligence with the capacity to kill anything else and all the while take minimal damage to its own species

@cowcatcher

All cordial here man

The !!! And "seriouslys!" Just theatrics
Franklinfan47
9/20/12 6:41:09PM

Posted by postman

I love ya George but this is one of the most misguided ignorant posts I have ever read. First off who are any of you to judge hunters yet your a fan of a sport that no matter how you look at it really is nothing more then Human cock fighting? A sport that has faced so many critics now all of a sudden you guys want to attack Hunters? Secondly it is not at all easy to get behind a Gun and kill an animal. It can be made easier for sure and is much harder then with a bow. But you do realize they are in the african desert in extream heat with little to hide them and predators everywhere if anything its far harder then your average deer hunt. Lastly Big Game Hunting is big money all over the world Countrys like the ones in Africa can use all the money they can get. I'm shocked at everyone is on their high horse.



Well for one, MMA is consentual. Both fighters agree to meet in the ring and fight, unlike cock fighting. There's a choice involved, so I dont see the comparison. The animal doesnt have a choice in hunting to be picked off by some drunken red neck.

Second, LMAO @ "its not easy to get behind a gun and shoot an animal". Are you kidding me? With all the scopes and sights they have now adays, its easy as hell. Youre making these poachers out to be the victims in all this?

Third, the whole "this provides income for Africa" argument is bullshit. Pollution generates big money for companies because they can cut corners, does that make it right to poison our planet? They could easily just turn these shooting ranges into safari excursions for tourists and still make money. Defenseless animals dont need to die. Typical fuckin Americans no wonder you have the highest gun homicide rate of any country.

Franklinfan47
9/20/12 6:44:17PM
PS Humans are at the top of the food chain. Read a fuckin book.
Adrenaline
9/20/12 7:08:42PM

Posted by Franklinfan47



Second, LMAO @ "its not easy to get behind a gun and shoot an animal". Are you kidding me? With all the scopes and sights they have now adays, its easy as hell. Youre making these poachers out to be the victims in all this?




You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about if you really believe this. Have you ever hunted anything? If you think it was too easy for Hughes on this particular hunt, I would probably agree with you but it can be incredibly hard to stalk deer/elk ect. In fact the majority of tags for big game go unfilled because unless you get lucky there is nothing easy about trying to legally take an animal that has literally been hunted since it existed. I wish it was as easy as you think it is.

And drop the "typical American" bullshit, that is such a weak card to play because you have the privilege to get to know thousands of us here on this site, should I assume that you don't like any of us?Are we all the same? YOUR country has plenty of its own problems so how about you worry about them and lay off the "bitch about the US" bandwagon like it is an original concept. And where do you get your information? Please post your source about the US having the highest firearm homicide rate out of any country.



Derp a derp


Still not number 1


Franklinfan47
9/20/12 7:44:04PM

Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by Franklinfan47



Second, LMAO @ "its not easy to get behind a gun and shoot an animal". Are you kidding me? With all the scopes and sights they have now adays, its easy as hell. Youre making these poachers out to be the victims in all this?




You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about if you really believe this. Have you ever hunted anything? If you think it was too easy for Hughes on this particular hunt, I would probably agree with you but it can be incredibly hard to stalk deer/elk ect. In fact the majority of tags for big game go unfilled because unless you get lucky there is nothing easy about trying to legally take an animal that has literally been hunted since it existed. I wish it was as easy as you think it is.

And drop the "typical American" bullshit, that is such a weak card to play because you have the privilege to get to know thousands of us here on this site, should I assume that you don't like any of us?Are we all the same? YOUR country has plenty of its own problems so how about you worry about them and lay off the "bitch about the US" bandwagon like it is an original concept. And where do you get your information? Please post your source about the US having the highest firearm homicide rate out of any country.



Derp a derp


Still not number 1





Congrats, youre ahead of Mexico, Columbia and Jamaica The rate is still ridiculously high.

As for the easiness of hunting, perhaps I was generalizing. Most hunters I talk to use salt licks to attract deer so they literally walk right up to you so you can shoot them at point blank range. Same for bear baiting, using meat. To me, thats not hunting.

Im sure there are people out there who actually still hunt for food, but most ive seen just want to kill something to make them feel tough.



prophecy033
9/20/12 7:52:13PM
From Adrenalins Derp link, the US info was between 2004-06 while Canadas was from 92. I would like to see where each country rates as of 2011

Edit: the other chart looks like its more up to date but from which year would be nice
Adrenaline
9/20/12 7:55:08PM

Posted by Franklinfan47



Congrats, youre ahead of Mexico, Columbia and Jamaica The rate is still ridiculously high.







Hasn't Talladega Nights taught you anything? If you're not first you're last.


prophecy033
9/20/12 8:02:14PM
Well, this threads gone from a solid 2 flusher to the water shits
thevoodooninja
9/20/12 8:05:55PM

Posted by Adrenaline


Posted by Franklinfan47



Congrats, youre ahead of Mexico, Columbia and Jamaica The rate is still ridiculously high.







Hasn't Talladega Nights taught you anything? If you're not first you're last.





SHAKE-N-BAKE


Franklinfan47
9/20/12 8:19:44PM

Posted by Adrenaline

YOUR country has plenty of its own problems so how about you worry about them




In Canada we kill our animals like real men by beating them with bats. But only if youre a baby seal.



In all seriousness though, the seal hunt also really pisses me off.
Adrenaline
9/20/12 8:21:58PM

Posted by Franklinfan47


Posted by Adrenaline

YOUR country has plenty of its own problems so how about you worry about them




In Canada we kill our animals like real men by beating them with bats. But only if youre a baby seal.



In all seriousness though, the seal hunt also really pisses me off.




lol see now you are being fair. We ALL do fucked up things


kopower
9/20/12 8:29:20PM
Damn, I was just about to get my popcorn. Shit was gettin real son!
Bubbles
9/20/12 8:39:34PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

In Canada we kill our animals like real men by beating them with bats. But only if youre a baby seal.


hockey sticks > baseball bats
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