Petition: Knees to the head of a downed opponent

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POLL: Knees to the head of a downed opponent
For 70% (129)
Against 30% (54)
Cobbs666
4/4/07 8:50:08PM
knees should be legal if a fighter is down on his knees, or one knee, must have both hands off the ground, and only knees to the forehead ,face and side of the head, seems like the safest way to me
JunCTion
4/4/07 10:45:51PM

Posted by Cobbs666

knees should be legal if a fighter is down on his knees, or one knee, must have both hands off the ground, and only knees to the forehead ,face and side of the head, seems like the safest way to me



i agree. knees to the head cant be any more dangerous than an elbow. it would be up to the discression of the ref. just like elbows, not on the top or back of the head
BadSanta
4/6/07 3:56:31AM
Small joint manipulation should be permitted again. If you can catch a guy trying to thumb you in the eye instead of punch you, you should be allowed to snap his ******* finger off.
madmarck
4/6/07 1:38:43PM

Posted by BadSanta

Small joint manipulation should be permitted again. If you can catch a guy trying to thumb you in the eye instead of punch you, you should be allowed to snap his ******* finger off.


I doubt that will happen. I think it would suck if someone just bent back all you fingers to be a prick. Not to mention the severity of it. Someone could literally make your fingers touch the back of your hand. That could mess up your ligaments permanently.
JimiMak
4/8/07 6:29:11PM

Posted by BadSanta

Small joint manipulation should be permitted again. If you can catch a guy trying to thumb you in the eye instead of punch you, you should be allowed to snap his ******* finger off.



I had a traditional JJ teacher who spent a year on fingerlocks. Don't underestimate the ability of someone in a tight ground clinch fighting for position type situation (like if someone's trying to get you in a kimura, or you're tryin to roll for one yourself) you can really mess someone up w/ a finger lock. Also I think the gloves would interfere (the rule comes from before gloves were mandatory). I know a lot of wristlocks that are legal that can be used as counters to armbars and such that I think just wouldn't be effective with the gloves and that's why you don't see them used.

BTW, the poll is closed, but for those who haven't seen my posts in other forums... I'm all in favor of kness and kicks in any position.
MMA117
4/8/07 11:20:26PM
I see your point for safty reasons.. but this is a FIGHT sport pople get hurt to take away a tool more over a "bread and butter" move set is taking away from the sport.
ncordless
4/8/07 11:40:53PM
I know we will probably never see one of the most devastaing moves in mma(soccer kick) here in the states, but the NSAC needs to allow knees on the ground. What other defense is there against a good double shot besides a sprawl. Rickson by sprawl..... sounds stoopid to me
ezkl2517
4/9/07 6:53:44PM
Does anyone think kness are worst than headbutts? I think both should be brought back. Knees are prob more important .
gcraig22
4/9/07 8:56:49PM
I'm okay with knees to the head. I don't think soccer kicks or stomps should be allowed. Elbows and knees are enough.
JunCTion
4/9/07 9:42:02PM
no head butts, no soccer kicks, no stomps.
elbows & definitely knees.
same rules apply. not to the top or back of the head. referes call
richieb19
4/9/07 10:14:46PM
After re-reading the 1st post I feel I should have been more clear about something... I feel it should be allowed in the quarter position only, not a northsouth mount...
u_f_c
4/9/07 10:39:26PM
ok sure, i could see this being a better and more high action packed fight, but guys come on, if u bring knees back its just going to turn into a big street brawl, which is what Dana does not want at all. he ensures safety to all of the fighters, why do u think the rule was made. and plus, all of the fighters would get completely pissed and back out of fights that are madae against crazy ass people.
JunCTion
4/9/07 10:52:13PM

Posted by u_f_c

ok sure, i could see this being a better and more high action packed fight, but guys come on, if u bring knees back its just going to turn into a big street brawl, which is what Dana does not want at all. he ensures safety to all of the fighters, why do u think the rule was made. and plus, all of the fighters would get completely pissed and back out of fights that are madae against crazy ass people.



what are you talking about? theres no street brawls in pride. and because of the knees a fighter cant just lay there and hold on or use his wrestling skills while the kickboxer cant use all of his tools
hook_tothe_body
4/10/07 6:00:58PM
I voted for knees on the ground. Fighters can't stall as much if people can knee each other on the ground. And it just gives you more options.

I hate soccer kicks and stomps. Just brutal. It doesn't take skill to stomp someone in the face, either. You can get good at it, but anyone can do it and KO somebody.
Hrock
4/10/07 7:09:21PM
Knees are needed in MMA.....otherwise it isn't fully MMA is it?
mr_bigglesworth
4/10/07 10:36:45PM
I think the biggest problem is the cage. I understand the octagon is the signature of UFC but why not make an octagon ring? I mean the cage is like a third person in the ring, it makes for a very unfair advantage to a superior wrestler who can pin someone against the fence for 3 straight periods.

I agree on knees to the downed opponent though,
JunCTion
4/10/07 11:24:27PM

Posted by mr_bigglesworth

I think the biggest problem is the cage. I understand the octagon is the signature of UFC but why not make an octagon ring? I mean the cage is like a third person in the ring, it makes for a very unfair advantage to a superior wrestler who can pin someone against the fence for 3 straight periods.

I agree on knees to the downed opponent though,



a superior wrestler could also keep you down in a ring.
what would be better if the ufc had quicker standups like the pride refs do. ifd you are not accomplishing anything or not making an effort then stand them up and restart. i believe thats what herring was hoping for in his 1st ufc
keith-hackney1
4/12/07 6:09:11PM
Ufc and pride fc simulate an mma bout, the survival of the fittest and the fights are set out to the fans to imitate a fighting situation as real as possible in order to provail a victor.
In order to do this along with the few minor adjustments made in the rules in order to protect both fighters from longterm or permanant damage, Its upto the commisioners to keep the fights as real as possible in order to live upto the name of ultimate fighting. To date, there is no record from any ufc/pridefc fighter who has seriously suffered longterm damage from a knee to the head etc so until it becomes a problem knee's should stay. Same with elbows.

I can understand how knee's and elbows are potentially dangerous, especially if your on the end of one by a 250lb heavyweight fighter. What they could do is bring in knee and elbow pads like rickson gracie used to wear. That way you still get the full force of a blow from a knee or elbow which would still k.o you, but it could reduce all the messy cuts that get opened up and end fights because of it.
A padded knee to the head would still ******* hurt and even bruise but it would stop the viewing to onlookers being able to label ufc as a bloodsport as it would drastically reduce the amount of cuts. Same with elbows.
That way knee's and elbows standing, to downed opponant or whatever could be used in both ufc and pride whilst in the best interests of the fighters an ellement of safety squeezes its way in aswell. Fights would be better !!

Any thoughts on this idea ??
JunCTion
4/12/07 11:19:31PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

Ufc and pride fc simulate an mma bout, the survival of the fittest and the fights are set out to the fans to imitate a fighting situation as real as possible in order to provail a victor.
In order to do this along with the few minor adjustments made in the rules in order to protect both fighters from longterm or permanant damage, Its upto the commisioners to keep the fights as real as possible in order to live upto the name of ultimate fighting. To date, there is no record from any ufc/pridefc fighter who has seriously suffered longterm damage from a knee to the head etc so until it becomes a problem knee's should stay. Same with elbows.

I can understand how knee's and elbows are potentially dangerous, especially if your on the end of one by a 250lb heavyweight fighter. What they could do is bring in knee and elbow pads like rickson gracie used to wear. That way you still get the full force of a blow from a knee or elbow which would still k.o you, but it could reduce all the messy cuts that get opened up and end fights because of it.
A padded knee to the head would still ******* hurt and even bruise but it would stop the viewing to onlookers being able to label ufc as a bloodsport as it would drastically reduce the amount of cuts. Same with elbows.
That way knee's and elbows standing, to downed opponant or whatever could be used in both ufc and pride whilst in the best interests of the fighters an ellement of safety squeezes its way in aswell. Fights would be better !!

Any thoughts on this idea ??



excellent thought. but i would rather get hit and blead than get a nasty cocussion and have internal bleading. blood is gross, but its actually better for you to bleed from that kind of head trama. and i still say that you can get cut from any number of strikes besides the knee & elbow.
keith-hackney1
4/13/07 3:10:06PM
Good point about the concussion part, soon the rules will be back to open hand striking unless politics stay out of mma.
JunCTion
4/13/07 3:22:09PM
i wonder how many retired boxers (winners & losers) would look back and wish they had the chance to get KOd with 1 punch from a fist rather than go the distance and have 87 punches land
-Virus-
4/15/07 10:58:29PM
I would love to see this rule removed !!!
MethodMan
4/17/07 8:02:37AM
I see where perhaps a person who is inherently a stand-up fighter is coming from after a good sprawl the only real area to strike is the top of the opponents head, or turn them over and side mount and work on the ground or scoot out and bring it back to the feet. However if blunt force strikes to the top or side of the head are allowed, then guys who are takedown people will then say why can I not then throw my oponent head first into the floor and finish the fight that way. In truth the current rules do not discriminate towards one way of fighting there are things that people can and cannot do in all styles if indeed anything goes.
BigWilly
4/19/07 11:52:28AM
Knees would be sweet.... UFC should bring in soccer kicks too...
Sopena66669
4/19/07 8:39:48PM
I think knees to a downed opponent would be awesome, it would make going for the takedown alot more dangerous for a wrestler which i believe would help discourage the lay and pray artists out there. Collegiate wrestling and MMA wrestling are two different things and i believe it will help keeping fights from basically being a wrestling match
MethodMan
4/20/07 4:23:06AM
Well I was watching Pride the other day and one of the brazilians was shooting for the legs all the time. He did not take knees because as soon as the shot failed he went to his back with an open guard. That is what you will see happening more stand up against grounded opponents. I Have said before I like Pride more but not because of the knees or kicks to a downed opponent but inspite of them.
MattHughesFan
4/23/07 8:36:36PM
I never liked knees to the head or foot stomps and elbows for that matter. I just think their cheep ways to win and take no skill.
charlieizu
4/24/07 12:57:00PM
i agree with knees on the ground but i think the UFC should look at the scoring system for takedowns first, im sick off fighters getting the takedown and scoring points. Then they doing nothing, the just lye in guard and dont attempt to change position, setup sub/tap, or attempt GnP. this rule has bugged me for years and it has to change for the growth of the sport
Kisame
4/24/07 2:47:46PM

Posted by MattHughesFan

I never liked knees to the head or foot stomps and elbows for that matter. I just think their cheep ways to win and take no skill.



Fine while we are at it lets stop punching while in mount to since its too hard to defend against while on back. Oh yeah and submissioins as well because the fighter who taps is still fine afterward.
MattHughesFan
4/24/07 4:11:08PM

Posted by Kisame


Posted by MattHughesFan

I never liked knees to the head or foot stomps and elbows for that matter. I just think their cheep ways to win and take no skill.



Fine while we are at it lets stop punching while in mount to since its too hard to defend against while on back. Oh yeah and submissioins as well because the fighter who taps is still fine afterward.



When did submissions come in to play? anyway your talking about to different things here. Punches while in mount are ok because it frequently takes many of them to end a fight and can be defended more then say knees to the head and also the one on their back still has the opportunity to grab a limb and lock in a sub. However when some1 gets north/south it's very hard to stop those knees coming in and gives the one on offense an easy way to the end the fight which in my eyes is cheep. on the subject of elbows it only takes two or three well placed elbows to open a cut and cause a doctor stoppage where as it takes a lot of punches being rained down to score a tko so doctor stoppages due to elbow are also cheap in my mind. but i guess you think submissions and punches are along the same lines.
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