Penn State Sanctions: $60M, Bowl Ban

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BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 3:12:47PM

The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization said Monday morning. The career record of Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records, the NCAA said.

Penn State also must reduce 10 initial and 20 total scholarships each year for a four-year period.

The NCAA revealed the sanctions as NCAA president Mark Emmert and Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, spoke at a news conference in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters.


NCAA Sanctions Against Penn State

• $60 million fine
• Vacation of wins from 1998-2011 (112 wins)*
• Four-year postseason ban
• Four-year scholarship reduction (10 initial; 20 total) • Players may transfer and play immediately at other schools
• Athletic department on probation for five years

* Joe Paterno record now 298-136-3; fifth on FBS all-time list



Article
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 3:14:25PM
This is, basically, the Death Penalty. Their school is done.
Chael_Sonnen
7/23/12 3:19:02PM
gartface
7/23/12 3:22:08PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen




BuffaloDave
7/23/12 3:25:26PM
I'm not trying to be funny here, but I bet it's a lot easier to get into Penn State now...
Pookie
7/23/12 3:25:32PM
Good. It sets the right Precedent.
Chael_Sonnen
7/23/12 3:25:41PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by Chael_Sonnen







They got off easy....I was expecting more punishment.
FlashyG
7/23/12 3:34:59PM
now I understand why they covered it up in the first place.

NCAA doesn't play around when it comes to discipline.

(I don't mean in any way shape or form that I agree with the cover-up, just that I had no idea the power the NCAA has when it comes to sanctions)
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 3:35:55PM

Posted by FlashyG

now I understand why they covered it up in the first place.

NCAA doesn't play around when it comes to discipline.

(I don't mean in any way shape or form that I agree with the cover-up, just that I had no idea the power the NCAA has when it comes to sanctions)



Neither did anyone else...until today. This is unprecedented.
prophecy033
7/23/12 3:45:47PM

Posted by Chael_Sonnen


Posted by gartface


Posted by Chael_Sonnen







They got off easy....I was expecting more punishment.

so was I considering there school (football team) made well over $100 million last year alone
lohmann
7/23/12 3:48:48PM


I am glad the NCAA included the language that allows players to transfer and play elsewhere. Everything seems right about this punishment.
george112
7/23/12 3:53:10PM
Penn state will be back...eventually


Then maybe 30 years from now they will give it a espn special where it tells the story of the scandal and how well the school has put that behind them blah blah blah




Or not
FlashyG
7/23/12 4:13:28PM
Its pretty crazy that they have the power to strip the team of all wins since 1998.

Do they track down all the players on their championship teams and demand their rings back?
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 4:13:58PM
There are two things about this that I don't like.

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?

2. I don't like that the currently players now have to upend their lives and move if they want to follow their dreams. Stay here and never play football or pack up everything you own and move to a school that wants you (assuming any school wants ALL these players).

That said, I figured there would be collateral damage. I'm not overly upset at it. I am just bothered by any sort of punishment for people that had nothing to do with it.
Wallass
7/23/12 4:14:40PM
Awesome! Too bad scumbag Paterno ain't around to be punished.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 4:17:36PM

Posted by FlashyG

Its pretty crazy that they have the power to strip the team of all wins since 1998.

Do they track down all the players on their championship teams and demand their rings back?



They can ask for stuff back, but they usually don't and they never get it when they do.

FlashyG
7/23/12 4:18:08PM

Posted by Wallass

Awesome! Too bad scumbag Paterno ain't around to be punished.



He got fired, had his legacy wiped out, statue torn down, and most of his wins vacated and technically he didn't break any laws.

I'd say he was punished sufficiently.
gartface
7/23/12 4:25:28PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 4:26:34PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.
Poor_Franklin
7/23/12 4:47:54PM
I'm not much for worshipping false idols so I am down w/ this.

This isn't punishment for Sandusky's crimes. This is punishment for Paterno's coverup.
Poor_Franklin
7/23/12 4:48:48PM

Posted by FlashyG


Posted by Wallass

Awesome! Too bad scumbag Paterno ain't around to be punished.



He got fired, had his legacy wiped out, statue torn down, and most of his wins vacated and technically he didn't break any laws.

I'd say he was punished sufficiently.



agreed.
Chael_Sonnen
7/23/12 4:53:00PM
Now if only Jerry S. would get the real death penalty.

I betcha Bill O'Brien wishes he was still in New England.....I will laugh my arse off if he jumps ship and says The hell with this - - I'm outta here!
frizzzlecake
7/23/12 5:07:42PM
I am Penn States Reckoning.


I hope that 60 million goes to the victims families and not NCAA pockets.




On a good note My Badgers get a easy W for the next ten years.
grappler0000
7/23/12 5:18:07PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.



I don't believe it does, actually. You can claim competitive advantage, which is still arguable, without even discussing results. The same as Steroids are considered a competitive advantage, while nobody is actually able to identify whether usage has resulted in a better performance or not during a sporting competition. Competitive edge doesn't always equal better results...and as long as that claim isn't made, I don't see a problem with that portion of the argument. If someone argued that employing Sandusky made for a better record than there would have been without, then yes, Fallacy on all sides.
Bubbles
7/23/12 5:40:07PM
I'm not a fan of wiping out the school's record, and any subsequent erasing of Bowl wins or w/e. Although the crimes pale in comparison but Mark McGuire's and Pete Rose's numbers still valid and their teams' records havent changed, so I don't see the reasoning why Penn State should have 13 years of wins (but not losses) wiped clean
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 5:41:15PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by gartface


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

1. They're vacating the wins as if the team was cheating. The players did everything right, why are their accomplishments being taken?



The argument I've heard toward this was that harboring and protecting Sandusky was a competitive advantage due to his expertise in recruiting and pumping out amazing defensive talent. In a way, this did give them a competitive edge during the time they employed and hid his crimes.



And that argument commits the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.



I don't believe it does, actually. You can claim competitive advantage, which is still arguable, without even discussing results. The same as Steroids are considered a competitive advantage, while nobody is actually able to identify whether an advantage was gained or not during a sporting competition. Competitive edge doesn't always equal better results...and as long as that claim isn't made, I don't see a problem with that portion of the argument. If someone argued that employing Sandusky made for a better record than there would have been without, then yes, Fallacy on all sides.



No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.

Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.
kopower
7/23/12 5:59:11PM
I figured the NCAA was going to come down hard on Penn State. Sucks for the former and current players, but I'm glad the punishment was harsh. Not sure if I agree taking wins away, but considering it has happened to other schools with scandals, it had to be done.
prophecy033
7/23/12 6:06:46PM

Posted by Bubbles

I'm not a fan of wiping out the school's record, and any subsequent erasing of Bowl wins or w/e. Although the crimes pale in comparison but Mark McGuire's and Pete Rose's numbers still valid and their teams' records havent changed, so I don't see the reasoning why Penn State should have 13 years of wins (but not losses) wiped clean

Wins AND losses should have been wiped.....all games played
grappler0000
7/23/12 6:26:37PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.



The difference being that I'm talking about his talent/acumen/resume...everything that he brought to the table, not the actual results that he produced.



Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.



Frankly, I have no idea whether it was actually a competitive advantage or not. I've never watched a College Football game in my life and I know little to nothing about either coach...that's why I left it as "arguable". And in doing so, I was merely stating that it was a logical argument, based on the veracity of that claim.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/23/12 6:35:02PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn

No, even before then it commits the fallacy. It assumes that PSU wouldn't have gotten that talent without Sandusky. It operates under the assumption that another coach couldn't have developed/recruited that talent.



The difference being that I'm talking about his talent/acumen/resume...everything that he brought to the table, not the actual results that he produced.



Penn State is an elite institution, players go there because they have a history of developing talent and they know how to develop talent. Sandusky and Paterno had diminished roles within the actual football aspect of things.

The job of a defensive coordinator IS to recruit well and develop top talent. How is that a competitive advantage? Every coordinator does that.



Frankly, I have no idea whether it was actually a competitive advantage or not. I've never watched a College Football game in my life and I know little to nothing about either coach...that's why I left it as "arguable". And in doing so, I was merely stating that it was a logical argument, based on the veracity of that claim.



I get what you're saying, but any argument saying that Sandusky provided a competitive advantage inherently means that he was better than someone else would/could have done his position.

i.e. Without Sandusky, they don't get that talent.

That's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. Anyone saying that is already arguing that he gets/develops better talent (competitive advantage). It's inherent within the argument.
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