P4P Fighter

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POLL: Who is the P4P MMA fighter?
Anderson Silva 54% (22)
Fedor Emelianenko 17% (7)
George St. Pierre 29% (12)
Pitbull09
5/8/08 12:08:37AM
I know this will spark a big arguement but I dont mind as I think this could be a great topic.

Right now I think the three candidates are
1. Anderson Silva (21-4)
2. Fedor Emelianenko (27-1)
3. George St. Pierre (16-2)

Thats the order I have it for top three, I was wondering what yours were.

Anderson Silva is top guy for me as his four losses are understandable. One was a DQ with Okami (that KO'd Okami), two were crazy submissions while Silva was winning the fight, and the other was a close decision.

Fedor is 2nd just becuase of his competition lately. His only loss was bull. If it was justified, A Silva should have a W for the kick to Okami. The fight with Sylvia coming up makes me put him above GSP but until he fights in the UFC (whether its weak or not) I cant put him as #1

GSP gets 3rd only because his two losses are decisive. Hughes destroyed him in their first fight and Serra KO'd him in the first round. I know he avenged the losses (Hughes twice), but he has to pay a bit for losing that bad when being picked for P4P.
Pookie
5/8/08 12:15:47AM

Posted by Pitbull09

I know this will spark a big arguement but I dont mind as I think this could be a great topic.

Right now I think the three candidates are
1. Anderson Silva (21-4)
2. Fedor Emelianenko (27-1)
3. George St. Pierre (16-2)

Thats the order I have it for top three, I was wondering what yours were.

Anderson Silva is top guy for me as his four losses are understandable. One was a DQ with Okami (that KO'd Okami), two were crazy submissions while Silva was winning the fight, and the other was a close decision.

Fedor is 2nd just becuase of his competition lately. His only loss was bull. If it was justified, A Silva should have a W for the kick to Okami. The fight with Sylvia coming up makes me put him above GSP but until he fights in the UFC (whether its weak or not) I cant put him as #1

GSP gets 3rd only because his two losses are decisive. Hughes destroyed him in their first fight and Serra KO'd him in the first round. I know he avenged the losses (Hughes twice), but he has to pay a bit for losing that bad when being picked for P4P.



His loss to daiju takase he was not winning, he was getting dominated before getting subbed.

But other than that i believe anderson silva is currently the p4p best, if fedor beats Sylvia he'll take the #1 spot back again.
The only top hw's he hasnt faced are couture, barnett, and arlovski. And with the current situation of all these fighters i feel its feasible that he can fight all of them in the next 2 years or so.
If he joined the UFC they would have almost no good fights for him at all right now and it looks like he made the right decision(in hindsight) by ultimately not signing with the ufc.

and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.
coldchillin
5/8/08 12:19:50AM
Anderson Silva has been so dominating lately and then counter-in Fedor's recent inactivity and I think The Spider has to be P4P the best right now. It will be interesting to see how Fedor looks against Sylvia.
SpiderSilva
5/8/08 12:26:24AM
Silva just proved it by beating a guy that took the 205 champ to the limit Page couldnt finish Hendo where Silva went to town I but Fedor could take it back with a win for now its Silva

GSP is on the come up
Pitbull09
5/8/08 12:31:04AM

Posted by Pookie

and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.



Penn has been beat by hughes and GSP but I guess that decision is argueable. Idk, even if he beat Sherk in a dominating fashion I dont see who else in that division is impressive to beat with Penns level. Right now I see him as a solid 4 spot though.
JBatch
5/8/08 12:33:15AM
I would agree with the threadstarter. I completely disagree with the poster who said BJ is #3, he is a slick fighter with a diverse skill set yet he has lost a few of his past fights and one to guy you are going to rank him above in GSP. Makes no sense.
Tailgunner
5/8/08 12:35:46AM

Posted by Pitbull09


GSP gets 3rd only because his two losses are decisive. Hughes destroyed him in their first fight and Serra KO'd him in the first round. I know he avenged the losses (Hughes twice), but he has to pay a bit for losing that bad when being picked for P4P.



Did you even see the first GSP vs Hughes??? Cause Hughes was getting schooled until he pulled off that arm-bar with one second left in the round!

Hughes was not destroying GSP ever in that fight.

Pookie
5/8/08 12:49:58AM

Posted by Pitbull09


Posted by Pookie

and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.



Penn has been beat by hughes and GSP but I guess that decision is argueable. Idk, even if he beat Sherk in a dominating fashion I dont see who else in that division is impressive to beat with Penns level. Right now I see him as a solid 4 spot though.



True, but he also was considerably smaller than both and in a p4p ranking size is supposed to be taken out of the issue, and i personally believe BJ penn would beat hughes 10/10 times if he didnt injure himself mid-fight.
Playground_Samurai
5/8/08 1:04:25AM

Posted by Tailgunner
Did you even see the first GSP vs Hughes??? Cause Hughes was getting schooled until he pulled off that arm-bar with one second left in the round!

Hughes was not destroying GSP ever in that fight.




Posted by Pookie
His loss to daiju takase he was not winning, he was getting dominated before getting subbed.



These guys are right. And I don't mean to nitpick, but IMO Anderson was also losing his fight with Chonan even before the sub. However, I don't feel any of Silva's losses should be relevent to the current P4P rankings. Just a little food for thought.

Anywho, I have it...
1. GSP
2. Silva
3. Fedor.

It's really tight though. I have GSP at #1 mainly because of all the ranked fighters he beaten. Actually, if I had a choice, I'd rank both Silva and GSP at #1 until they fought to establish a true answer to the controversy. Maybe im bias. If Fedor continues fighting and defeating legitimate fighters after a win over Big Tim, he'll be right back in the race for the #1 spot.
kevietre
5/8/08 1:16:19AM
Fedor is the man. But Anderson Silva has to be #1 right now. He isin't going out of the 2nd round lately which is scary. Henderson dominated him in round 1 but he remained patient and submitted him making it look easy. He walked through Rich Franklin twice. We're talking about a guy who stopped Ken Shamrock in the first round, beat Evan Tanner twice, and dominated The Crow for 5 rounds and Silva wrecked him twice. He has a brutal KO over Tony The Freak, beat Jorge Rivera who hits hard at 185 and nobody really talks about his 1st round destruction of Nate Marquardt. Fedor has beaten top level competiton just not as dominant as Silva has been beating his opponents. Fedor beat Randleman but not before getting dumped on his head. He beat Fujita but not before getting wobbled. He beat Nogeira twice but by decision. With the exception of Mark Hunt Fedor's last legit opponent was Mirko. Hong Man Choi and Zulu are not going to make you a better fighter. The Lindland fight should have never happened because of the weight difference and the was some controvery whether or not Fedor held on to the ropes. Im not trying to knock on Fedor I think he'll bounce back against Tim but Silva is on a rampage right now.
Mchubb316
5/8/08 2:38:07AM
Silva P4P best I agree. No one has come close to challenging him for the belt. He has taken the UFC by storm, and I don't see it coming to an end anytime in the near future.
Pookie
5/8/08 3:12:48AM

Posted by kevietre
He walked through Rich Franklin twice. We're talking about a guy who stopped Ken Shamrock in the first round, beat Evan Tanner twice, and dominated The Crow for 5 rounds and Silva wrecked him twice.



See i dont think stopping shammy in the first, beating tanner twice and dominating the crow for five rounds is really all that impressive when compared to alot of other fighters. but thats just me.
Ben_Hutch
5/8/08 7:50:02AM
Anderson Silva = #1 P4P in the world
mrsmiley
5/8/08 9:42:58AM
As of now I would say Silva is P4P the best,but only because Fedor has been taking it easy lately.To me though,if you want to prove who is the best P4P fighter,then you just got to take the best out of each weight class and make them fight.LOL,I know that might sound crazy,but hey it would end the debate.
MMA
5/8/08 10:06:09AM

Posted by Pookie
and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.


See, I just don't understand it with BJ fans.

The dude comes off of a 1 year hiatus and losses to GSP and Matt Hughes. Drops down to 155lbs and beats Jen Pulvers (not a top 10 fighter) and Joe Stevenson (decent win, arguably top 10 fighter). Yeah, he has beat some really solid guys in the past but GSP has been beating solid guys pretty much his entire career.

Then there's always the argument about how he almost beat Hughes and he should have beat GSP. If those excuses don't work than those fights shouldn't have even count since he was fighting at a higher weight class. Seriously, there are a handful of fighters that I rank higher than BJ in both the P4P and lightweight ranking. Of course, I'll definitely rank BJ higher if he defeats Sherk.

But whatever, P4P rankings are so damn subjective. Like I do look at overall accomplishments but I definitely place more weight on recent performances than ones 3 years ago. You're as good as your last fight.
mrsmiley
5/8/08 10:14:36AM

Posted by MMA


Posted by Pookie
and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.


See, I just don't understand it with BJ fans.

The dude comes off of a 1 year hiatus and losses to GSP and Matt Hughes. Drops down to 155lbs and beats Jen Pulvers (not a top 10 fighter) and Joe Stevenson (decent win, arguably top 10 fighter). Yeah, he has beat some really solid guys in the past but GSP has been beating solid guys pretty much his entire career.

Then there's always the argument about how he almost beat Hughes and he should have beat GSP. If those excuses don't work than those fights shouldn't have even count since he was fighting at a higher weight class. Seriously, there are a handful of fighters that I rank higher than BJ in both the P4P and lightweight ranking. Of course, I'll definitely rank BJ higher if he defeats Sherk.

But whatever, P4P rankings are so damn subjective. Like I do look at overall accomplishments but I definitely place more weight on recent performances than ones 3 years ago. You're as good as your last fight.



You make good points,but BJ needed to beat Pulver.It doesn't matter what his ranking was,BJ wanted the revenge.And their was a time in this sport,when Jens was considered one of the most well rounded fighters around,and if he had beaten Penn a second time,he would have all sorts of people on his bandwagon right now.Sometimes people just really forget how great a fighter is,or were his skill level is at after he loses a few.
rabbit915
5/8/08 11:32:50AM
Inspite of being the resident anti-GSP nuthugger, im going to make the following statement:

I think GSP is the number 1 P4P guy in the world right now simply because of how he has dominated the division. Neither Silva or Fedor hold wins over as many guys currently ranked in the top 10. Also, GSP only has the two loses to Hughes and Serra but he came back and dominated Hughes twice and then dominated Serra. He has come back and avenged his two losses to those guys which mostly eliminates them for me.

I will also say that its incredibly tight and a decisive win by Fedor over Sylvia or a win by Silva over somebody good (not sure Okami is going to do the trick for me) could alter that.

SmileR
5/8/08 12:26:17PM

Posted by MMA

See, I just don't understand it with BJ fans.

The dude comes off of a 1 year hiatus and losses to GSP and Matt Hughes. Drops down to 155lbs and beats Jen Pulvers (not a top 10 fighter) and Joe Stevenson (decent win, arguably top 10 fighter). Yeah, he has beat some really solid guys in the past but GSP has been beating solid guys pretty much his entire career.

Then there's always the argument about how he almost beat Hughes and he should have beat GSP. If those excuses don't work than those fights shouldn't have even count since he was fighting at a higher weight class. Seriously, there are a handful of fighters that I rank higher than BJ in both the P4P and lightweight ranking. Of course, I'll definitely rank BJ higher if he defeats Sherk.

But whatever, P4P rankings are so damn subjective. Like I do look at overall accomplishments but I definitely place more weight on recent performances than ones 3 years ago. You're as good as your last fight.



This is sense!

Anyway back on topic I would say GSP top right now with Fedor number two and Silva coming in third...
But hear my reasons before you flame me!

I always think that the P4P king would still be the champ if every fighter was the same hight and weight. Like just for example if GSP, Silva and Fedor were all 6ft and 205lb who would be the champ of that devision if you can get what I mean.

I would say it was GSP mainly because he could see the GSP Silva fight going pretty much the same way as GSP Vs Serra. Silva isn't known for his TD defense and GSP dominated a BJJ black-belt on the ground before and i doubt Silva would be able to keep the fight standing.

GSP Vs Fedor would probably be the closest of the two fight but i'd still give the advantage to GSP in this one again. Even though GSP said he is sometimes unwilling to stand i think he has better hands than Fedor and once again could use his wrestling to keep anything Fedor does underwraps.

I personally think GSP is easily the best P4P fighter alive today, but that being said, its only a mentally prepared GSP.


CantAndleDaRiddum
5/8/08 1:28:14PM

Posted by Tailgunner


Posted by Pitbull09


GSP gets 3rd only because his two losses are decisive. Hughes destroyed him in their first fight and Serra KO'd him in the first round. I know he avenged the losses (Hughes twice), but he has to pay a bit for losing that bad when being picked for P4P.



Did you even see the first GSP vs Hughes??? Cause Hughes was getting schooled until he pulled off that arm-bar with one second left in the round!

Hughes was not destroying GSP ever in that fight.




people tend to forget what they dont want to remember






and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1
Ben_Hutch
5/8/08 1:39:05PM
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
SmileR
5/8/08 1:52:19PM

Posted by Ben_Hutch

"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......



Are you serious! Tim is easily top 10 and i wouldn't argue with anyone who had him in the top 5!
I think he means if he is fighting top competition and dominating them again he should be moved back up.
Kpro
5/8/08 2:21:36PM

Posted by Ben_Hutch

"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......



What 10 guys do you have ahead of Sylvia?
Jackelope
5/8/08 2:29:45PM

Posted by Ben_Hutch

"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......



I know you already got flamed for it twice, but here's number 3

Big Tim not being top 10 HW... hahahaha
fullerene
5/8/08 2:42:44PM
Good list. I can see the argument for any of those three guys being #1.

Snce p4p is even more subjective than within-weight rankings, I'm going to pick someone else, though. I'll put Kid Yamamoto as my #1. The rationale for this is:

1) I think he is easily the #1 fighter in his natural weight class (135) the #1 fighter in the weight class above him (145) and a top 10-15 fighter two weight classes above him (155). All the other candidatesmentioned can compete in only 1 or maybe 2 weight classes and nobody else has established a strong argument for being #1 in two (maybe Penn a few years ago).
.
2) If we had the magic shrinking/growing ray to make everyone the same size I think he would beat anyone else in the world. He is the only guy who is simultaneously competitive (as in not getting blown away right away) wrestling with Olympic caliber wrestlers and striking with K-1 champion level fighters. I don't see that talent level anywhere else, even with the three great fighters in the original post.
Ben_Hutch
5/8/08 3:25:38PM
Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5
Jackelope
5/8/08 4:02:01PM

Posted by Ben_Hutch

Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5



So your rankings are based on how many top p4p guys they've beaten? There aren't very many ranked p4p heavyweights so what the guy was saying is if Fedor beats Tim Sylvia (a top 10 HW) he will go back up on the p4p list.

If you want to break down your top 10 p4p fighters like that you probably won't get very far. It's rare that these top p4p guys fight each other (because obviously they're in different weight classes)

Ben_Hutch
5/8/08 4:06:00PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Ben_Hutch

Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5



So your rankings are based on how many top p4p guys they've beaten? There aren't very many ranked p4p heavyweights so what the guy was saying is if Fedor beats Tim Sylvia (a top 10 HW) he will go back up on the p4p list.

If you want to break down your top 10 p4p fighters like that you probably won't get very far. It's rare that these top p4p guys fight each other (because obviously they're in different weight classes)




I have no problem with fedor moving up the list, but the guy stated that Fedor would be the #1 P4P fighter in the world if he beat Tim, which is not true. It also depends where you rank fedor in the top 10 before the fight.
kaskd
5/8/08 4:15:51PM
I have to agree with the OP. My rankings are Silva, Fedor, GSP. To me P4P has to do with who you could handle, meaning the diversity of fighters that you could beat.

Silva has shown he can handle anyone regardless of who comes at him. Strikers, wrestlers, jiu jitsu guys whatever.

Fedor too. He's taken out THE best strikers, jiujitsu, and wrestlers when they were in their prime. Now inactivity (non high level competition) does play a factor and I won't argue about him dropping to third right now. He would be my #1 right now if it wasn't for his recent competition.

Now GSP has only taken on wrestlers recently. I agree it's not his fault that he's fought only wrestlers, it's just his division. (Please don't bring up Serra because he was just a flash in the pan and that's a whole different topic). I believe GSP could and will hang with some of the best strikers in mma he just hasn't yet. When he does he could jump up to #1, but unfortunately he just hasn't.
Pookie
5/8/08 4:24:49PM

Posted by Ben_Hutch

"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......



top 5
Ben_Hutch
5/8/08 4:46:00PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by Ben_Hutch

"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "

Obviously not!

So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......



top 5



Agreed.
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