most overrated mma grappling legend

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » General MMA Talk » most overrated mma grappling legend
POLL: the most disappointing grappling legend
bj penn 2% (1)
matt serra 48% (26)
renzo gracie 6% (3)
alberto crane 22% (12)
josh koscheck 11% (6)
alberto crane 11% (6)
CCPRIDE99
9/19/08 3:35:01PM
another topic brought up at my school
some of the grappling legends were brought up at my school and a lot of people said there were quite a few who were really overrated grapplers meaning they were heavily respected in grappling but havent showed enough of to live up to their immense reputations
the top guys i pick are bj and serra because bj did win the bjj world championship but theres too many guys that i think he could have submitted and didnt to be named the best grappler in mma
serra has only really submitted one guy in the ufc and has had plenty of chances to submit guys and wasnt able to
i disagreed with a lot of my classmates when they brought up koscheck because he pretty much dominates everybody with his wrestling and has even stopped some with submissions and (t)kos
juanez13
9/19/08 3:46:23PM
I'd say Royce Gracie is the most OVERRATED, He was subbing people when they didnt know what BJJ was. If he were to grapple against some of today's best grapplers, I dont think he'd hold up to well. Alot of times i hear people say that Royce would have subbed today's best or is equally as good, and i just think that far from what would happen.
wiggum
9/19/08 4:05:34PM

Posted by juanez13

I'd say Royce Gracie is the most OVERRATED, He was subbing people when they didnt know what BJJ was. If he were to grapple against some of today's best grapplers, I dont think he'd hold up to well. Alot of times i hear people say that Royce would have subbed today's best or is equally as good, and i just think that far from what would happen.



agreed.....look at his recent fights, hughes, sakaraba (even tho he won)....the bjj game has passed him in mma (or bascially real life practices)......

Penn - ummm why is he even being discussed as a overated grappler? hes got submission wins, dominated on the ground with the exception of the gsp fight, but still showed why he is soo highly considerd, and he uses his jj to put opponents in awkaward positions to were he wins the fight...i think hes a perfect example of a crossover over star from bjj to mma

serra - i dont think hes overated as a grappler, i just think he enters fights that he shouldnt be in..plus he was never really that big of a grappling star to begin with, just the renzo gracie black belt got him recognition.....he should be fighting at 155 still...but as far as crossing over, he holds his own on the ground, but look hes fought..guys that are more highly touted than him in the grappling world....gsp is a renzo brown belt, and serra is a black, there wasnt much difference there

renzo gracie - i think the only reason he was mentioned is cuz the ladder part of his career and recent fights.... during the nineties he was very dominate on the ground and overall in mma....there is a reason he is considered the greatest gracie mma fighter

crane - is a perfect example of not being able to cross over...overated for sure, cuz if your bjj doesnt cross over then what actual use will it have in the real world which is the center of most martial arts (real world practicality)

koscheck - i dont think hes overated at all....last couple fights hes kept standing, but before that, he was a dominate wrestler and used it perfectly (yet boring) in fights...the only person to outwrestle him was gsp...who apparently now is olympic caliber in that department...plus rumor has it is that koscheck didnt even train the ground for that fight, just trained stand up

i think better examples would be (among others):
marcio cruz
any judoka (except karo)
roan canerio
Bumpy
9/19/08 5:00:59PM
I would have to say matt serra.
jiujitsufreak74
9/19/08 5:05:20PM
you know you have alberto crane up there twice right?

anyway to answer your question, i'll have to say matt serra. Serra never really uses his offensive JJ at all in MMA and it is really disappointing to see him pass up so many submissions. he really only uses his defensive JJ skills, and GSP passed his guard like it was nothing. i know GSP is GSP and made Kos and Hughes look like amateur wrestlers, but the way in which he was able to pass Serra's guard was very disappointing.

btw, what class are you in? because i really want to take whatever subject it is lol.

(just felt like using it)
ncordless
9/19/08 8:11:01PM
Koschek a "grappling legend"? Why in the world would anyone say that?
Khaos
9/19/08 10:29:43PM
I'm gonna say Matt Serra, for the sole reason the he has not submitted anyone professinally since Kelly Dullanty at UFC 36(over six years ago).
fullerene
9/19/08 10:59:00PM
Not one of those guys is someone I would consider a grappling legend. Karelin, Gotch, Kimura and Carlson Gracie they are not.

I guess you are asking who has a reputation as a great grappler in modern MMA and doesn't deserve it. Even so, you could define that as either a guy who's built a reputation based primarily on what he's done in MMA which causes people to exagerate his accomplishment level in straight grappling (like Penn) or a guy who came in with a pedigree from grappling competitions and was not able to apply it as well in MMA (like Crane).
tdietel01
9/20/08 1:16:44AM
cant believe noone said dan severn yet?
Pskinner_mma314
9/20/08 2:08:05AM
I kinda wonder why I like Serra, but I do, so as much as I don't like to say it, Matt Serra is an overrated grappler, in mma point of view. what I would say Serra has is somethin I can relate to in exam anxiety, I can study and study and study, and be great at it, like Serra to BJJ, but when it comes down to it I just go blank, it seems like Serra can't remember that he is a black belt on his fights. If he would just gain some ****** composure, I think he could actually give BJ a test
Cdellorso
9/20/08 2:32:38AM
Grappling = wrestling right???
or does Grappling = wrestling and JJ??

Most wrestlers are GNP or "grinding out a dec with control "Guida Danzig"

A really good wrestlers that learns dood sub def is still an underdog to a really good BJJ guy with ok wrestling....

Dan Severn is a legend (And from good old Montrose MI) and should be a Hall of famer. He was too old when the sport started getting popular but the dude still does trainning for the police officers and still pretty active fighting in smaller cards.. I bet old severn at his best beat Kimbo 7 outta 10

Kos is a great MMA wrestler - he doesnt sub people he gnps or grinds out wins- I dont think hes "over rated"

Gracies (Hoyce) or Royce or what ev... his wrestling stunk his BJJ was good back then - not now....

Matt Serra... supposedly a really great BJJ.... not beating most top guys ... not subbing anyone.
NewGuy
9/20/08 12:20:18PM
Has to be Serra
JimiMak
9/20/08 4:10:16PM
Kos? how did he wind up there?
Naturaldisaster
9/20/08 5:46:30PM
Royce Gracie. (not fighter bashing) but I think royce is one of the most overrated fighters ever. He won his fights but you have to look at the rules back then. There were no rules. He could bite, eye gauge, low blow, etc. That doesnt make you a good mma fighter. Gracie had BJJ, which everyone was unformiliar with. If mma back then had been like it is today, Royce gracie wouldnt even be considered as one of the 100 best fighters ever.
copcopps
9/20/08 6:02:17PM
Serra by far.
mkiv9secsupra
9/20/08 6:37:53PM

Posted by Naturaldisaster

Royce Gracie. (not fighter bashing) but I think royce is one of the most overrated fighters ever. He won his fights but you have to look at the rules back then. There were no rules. He could bite, eye gauge, low blow, etc. That doesnt make you a good mma fighter. Gracie had BJJ, which everyone was unformiliar with. If mma back then had been like it is today, Royce gracie wouldnt even be considered as one of the 100 best fighters ever.



+1...


We all saw what a true MMA fighter did to him in Hughes vs Gracie
Related Topics