overrated

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tffdwg38
1/27/07 11:59:30PM
who is the most overrated fighter? In any org.
crimethinc
1/28/07 4:33:02AM
Everyone from the most recent TUF. Bringing back a group of guys with less then impressive UFC records. I don't doubt any of there skill, but I don't think beating the rest of the losers should gain you a title shot. And does anyone honestly believe that Matt Serra or Travis Lutter really have much of a chance in there title fights.
D-Boy
1/28/07 7:27:35AM

Posted by crimethinc

Everyone from the most recent TUF. Bringing back a group of guys with less then impressive UFC records. I don't doubt any of there skill, but I don't think beating the rest of the losers should gain you a title shot. And does anyone honestly believe that Matt Serra or Travis Lutter really have much of a chance in there title fights.



They always have a chance if they can get it to the ground. It's overall slim but a chance none the less. Those fights probably won't go past the first round in my opinion though
Infused
1/28/07 1:48:54PM

Posted by D-Boy


Posted by crimethinc

Everyone from the most recent TUF. Bringing back a group of guys with less then impressive UFC records. I don't doubt any of there skill, but I don't think beating the rest of the losers should gain you a title shot. And does anyone honestly believe that Matt Serra or Travis Lutter really have much of a chance in there title fights.



They always have a chance if they can get it to the ground. It's overall slim but a chance none the less. Those fights probably won't go past the first round in my opinion though



Maybe in the GSP fight, but Anderson Silva is a black belt if BJJ under the Nog Brothers, so i think he could hold his own on the ground.
the-james
1/28/07 3:23:12PM
Matt Hughes
Tim Sylvia
Sean Sherk
Josh Koscheck
Josh Barnett
Tito Ortiz
Yoshida
Mark Coleman
Unkoman
1/28/07 6:30:10PM

Posted by the-james

Matt Hughes
Tim Sylvia
Sean Sherk
Josh Koscheck
Josh Barnett
Tito Ortiz
Yoshida
Mark Coleman



I'm not a fan of sylvia but i would hardly call him overated - no one rates him high at all. I would say he is underated though he's still a jackass

Josh Barnett has put on great showings with great fighters this last couple of years. He deserves the accolades he has been getting.
roman
1/29/07 1:56:52PM
I would have to say Ortiz or Barnett.

They are still great fighters, just in my opinion not as good as everyone says.
thelastking
1/29/07 2:12:46PM
IMO forest griffin is or was the most overrated fighter. he is not bad but some people had him a #1 contender or close to it before the loss to Jardine
waylon_o
1/29/07 4:49:24PM
I'm gonna go with Barnett and Griffin...great fighters, just not as good as everyone seems to make them out to be...especially Griffin. And Chris Leben...
nate22
1/29/07 9:46:11PM
Barnett overrated? Nope.
hippysmacker
1/29/07 10:43:37PM
I'd like to add Machida,K. Grove, Randleman, M. Coleman, W.Sims, F. Shamrock, Rickson Gracie, , Nogawa,Hunt, Aleks Emelienko.
BloodandTears
1/30/07 11:06:27AM

Posted by roman

I would have to say Ortiz or Barnett.

They are still great fighters, just in my opinion not as good as everyone says.



Thats insane!! Barnett is a top contender, IMO he would destroy UFC's champ. I dont say this because I'm a fan of his, cause I'm not, but The guy has skill. I think the most over-rated would be most of the guy's that come off TUF. There are exceptions of course (ie. Diego Sanchez) but I think Chris Leben and Forrest Griffen are a bit over-rated.
BloodandTears
1/30/07 11:15:17AM

Posted by hippysmacker

I'd like to add Machida,K. Grove, Randleman, M. Coleman, W.Sims, F. Shamrock, Rickson Gracie, , Nogawa,Hunt, Aleks Emelienko.



Wow Hippy, I've agreed 100% w/ your other posts but I'm not seeing your logic here. Machida? He has beat some great fighters in his 8 fights and most people dont even know who he is. How is he over-rated? Rickson? Aleks I agree with, hunt I agree with, Randleman I agree with. Frank Shamrock?? IMO they are over-rated on sherdog maybe, but for the rest of the world I dont think so. Please elaborate so that I can remain 100% agreed on your posts. Thanks Hippy.
pv3Hpv3p
1/30/07 1:31:15PM

Posted by BloodandTears


Posted by hippysmacker

I'd like to add Machida,K. Grove, Randleman, M. Coleman, W.Sims, F. Shamrock, Rickson Gracie, , Nogawa,Hunt, Aleks Emelienko.



Wow Hippy, I've agreed 100% w/ your other posts but I'm not seeing your logic here. Machida? He has beat some great fighters in his 8 fights and most people dont even know who he is. How is he over-rated? Rickson? Aleks I agree with, hunt I agree with, Randleman I agree with. Frank Shamrock?? IMO they are over-rated on sherdog maybe, but for the rest of the world I dont think so. Please elaborate so that I can remain 100% agreed on your posts. Thanks Hippy.



I will agree with B&T's, I agree with most of what you have to say on here, but Machida? How can a virtualluy unknown figter be over-rated? Anytime good competition has stepped in against him, they lose... And I'm not a Rickson worshiper like some people, but to call him overrated is a stretch, IMO.
I don't think Mark Hunt is over-rated. I don't think people ever excpected much from him vs Fedor, but he put on a better show than most expected. He is still in the process of transfering his K1 skills into a more MMA friendly format, and his stand-up / chin is top 10 (maybe 5) for sure. I think Hunt has a very good chance in making some big waves in MMA...

I'll wholeheartedly agree with Coleman though, but, IMHO, the most over-rated... Would have to go with Forrest, seems like a great, hardworking guy, but just doesn't have the tools to break into the top 10 (and it's got to be hard to live up to all that UFC hype). He's had 3 loses since he won the inaguaral season of TUF (2 by KO), and some people still consider him in contention for a shot at Chuck?? Do these people hate him? Not a good matchup at all.

On a side note... Why all the hate for Josh Barnett by everyone else on this post??? The guy is a very game opponent who has had wars with the best of them... I fear that the people judging him have only seen him KO'd by Rizzo on UFC knocjouts or something. Barnett is a very well rounded, huge asset to the MMA HW community.
hippysmacker
1/31/07 6:23:17AM

Posted by BloodandTears


Posted by hippysmacker

I'd like to add Machida,K. Grove, Randleman, M. Coleman, W.Sims, F. Shamrock, Rickson Gracie, , Nogawa,Hunt, Aleks Emelienko.



Wow Hippy, I've agreed 100% w/ your other posts but I'm not seeing your logic here. Machida? He has beat some great fighters in his 8 fights and most people dont even know who he is. How is he over-rated? Rickson? Aleks I agree with, hunt I agree with, Randleman I agree with. Frank Shamrock?? IMO they are over-rated on sherdog maybe, but for the rest of the world I dont think so. Please elaborate so that I can remain 100% agreed on your posts. Thanks Hippy.



I just noticed this or I would have answered back sooner, sorry. Machida's only impressive victory to me is against Frankln. Bj is a natural lightweight, that doesn't seem special that he couldn't even finish him. Mcdonald is a kickboxer trying his first MMA fight , and he went straight to the ground the first time he tried any offense.Greco might be an up and comer, but is still very new to MMA, and it was a very close decision.. It was Bonnar's first fight against anybody I've ever even heard of, and while Bonnar's tough I don't see him even in the top 20. Dmitri is nothing special so far. Tiger White is a journeyman , who is at least usually entertaining. Watanabe is less than White. I don't doubt Machida's ability. Just his pedigree. He has pretty good standup and Ju-jitsu. However, until I see him beating some top 205 lb. fighter's I'm just not impressed. Rickson was the best Gracie of his ime, but Royce has far more victories against real MMA fighter's. Rickson's 400-0 record is first of all false,. He lost a well publicized Judo match, then claimed he didn't know the rules. Which is funny because he had been in other Judo matches. He has never fought one credible MMA guy even in the top 10 of any weight class except for Funaki , who I'm sure most would agree would be murdered by anyone in the top 10 at 205 today. His own father made fun of how he comes by his record. Saying that Rickson counts training matches and such. He also said by Rickson's way of counting he would have a million victories. Whenever someone ask him to fight he ask for double what the highest paid fighter ask for. I think he is like Frank Shamrock, once a guy ahead of his time, and now all talk. Both of them always ask for too much money to fight IMO ,in order to preserve the illusion they are still great, knowing someone will never pay what they ask. Don't get me wrong, Frank and Rickson are still legends and deservedly so. Still, they need to put up or shut up , because they are no longer ahead of the majority of good fighter's. Frank still is young enough to do something about it. Rickson is almost 50 so I doubt we will ever see him vs sakuraba like we all wanted. Still, I think he would take that fight for 3 million dollars , and even if loses he'd still have 3 million dollars to laugh about. Again ,sorry it took so long for a response.
pv3Hpv3p
1/31/07 2:45:52PM
Good point on Rickson... I guess I was still holding on to that Gracie Legend too, but you're right... He carresses that unproven record and does rely on the past to much, admittidly the game has passed them, and as good of a BJJ guy as he is MMA has evolved well beyond that point.

Your point on Machida though, I still can't swallow... Watanabe, was Ryo's first fight, then Bonnar, then Franklin, he himself was still green at the time... He was just as new to the game as those folks, and stood in there and proved himself. He is a young guy without much experience himself (only 8 fights)so I don't think it was as simple as a veteran vs rookie scenario...

I really really hope he brings it in the UFC...

Could pan out to be the best young talent they've picked up in a long time
hippysmacker
1/31/07 3:41:07PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Good point on Rickson... I guess I was still holding on to that Gracie Legend too, but you're right... He carresses that unproven record and does rely on the past to much, admittidly the game has passed them, and as good of a BJJ guy as he is MMA has evolved well beyond that point.

Your point on Machida though, I still can't swallow... Watanabe, was Ryo's first fight, then Bonnar, then Franklin, he himself was still green at the time... He was just as new to the game as those folks, and stood in there and proved himself. He is a young guy without much experience himself (only 8 fights)so I don't think it was as simple as a veteran vs rookie scenario...

I really really hope he brings it in the UFC...

Could pan out to be the best young talent they've picked up in a long time



I hope your right, UFC LHVY division needs more talent.
pv3Hpv3p
1/31/07 3:52:13PM
Too true...

Some good young up-and-comers but they could really use some solidified talent.

Page, if he comes back to true form, was a big grab, but it's still tough to compare to Prides MW (LHW):

Wandy
Shogun
Lil Nog
Arona...etc

That's a seriously stacked division.
roman
1/31/07 3:59:17PM

Posted by BloodandTears


Posted by roman

I would have to say Ortiz or Barnett.

They are still great fighters, just in my opinion not as good as everyone says.



Thats insane!! Barnett is a top contender, IMO he would destroy UFC's champ. I dont say this because I'm a fan of his, cause I'm not, but The guy has skill. I think the most over-rated would be most of the guy's that come off TUF. There are exceptions of course (ie. Diego Sanchez) but I think Chris Leben and Forrest Griffen are a bit over-rated.



How good can he be if he was losing to Pawel Nastula (he got the toe hold to win it I understand but IMO he was losing before that happened). I think he would give big Timmy a run for his money thats true but it would be a match. Fedor will run through him just like Cro Cop. I think a Hunt Barnett 2 would be a better fight than Fedor Barnett (And I also think Hunt might win). And as for the TUF fighters if anyone rates them high they must be high, so how can they be overratted when they never win big bouts. Thanks hippysmacker because you brought up Frank Shamrock as being overrated and I definitley agree with you.
ElGuApO91
1/31/07 5:03:47PM
chris leben
david loiseaus elbows there not that great lol
mark coleman
i have to say matt lindland as well
tito ortiz
and i cant think of anyone else at the moment
pv3Hpv3p
2/2/07 5:10:11PM
Thats insane!! Barnett is a top contender, IMO he would destroy UFC's champ. I dont say this because I'm a fan of his, cause I'm not, but The guy has skill. I think the most over-rated would be most of the guy's that come off TUF. There are exceptions of course (ie. Diego Sanchez) but I think Chris Leben and Forrest Griffen are a bit over-rated.


How good can he be if he was losing to Pawel Nastula (he got the toe hold to win it I understand but IMO he was losing before that happened). I think he would give big Timmy a run for his money thats true but it would be a match. Fedor will run through him just like Cro Cop. I think a Hunt Barnett 2 would be a better fight than Fedor Barnett (And I also think Hunt might win). And as for the TUF fighters if anyone rates them high they must be high, so how can they be overratted when they never win big bouts. Thanks hippysmacker because you brought up Frank Shamrock as being overrated and I definitley agree with you.


Nastula isn't as bad as his record portrays...

Look at his competition...

Sorry but Big Nog to pop your 'Pride cherry'?!?!? that's pretty rough, and then Aleks E, Drago (which he won), and Barney...

If this was college football, I think the strength of schedule argument might come into paly...
cowcatcher
2/2/07 5:47:09PM
koscheck, later vitor, tank, randleman, any other TUF guys(just realy hate kos)btw don't flame about the any TUF guys bein on here, they came out over-hyped, and i still don't see any with belts or even bein in the ring with title holders except 1 and we know how that turned out
MississippiRed
2/2/07 6:25:58PM
Koschek
Cung Le
Forrest Griffin
Tito Ortiz
Frank Shamrock
loller90278
2/2/07 6:36:12PM
pawel nastula is a great fighter... he'd probably wipe up the HW division at ufc IMO (besides cc)
tffdwg38
2/2/07 7:48:29PM
griffin and ortiz easy
fedorwins1
2/9/07 5:16:25PM

Posted by the-james

Matt Hughes
Tim Sylvia
Sean Sherk
Josh Koscheck
Josh Barnett
Tito Ortiz
Yoshida
Mark Coleman



What! Mark Coleman won a GP and is a veteran of the sport, Matt Hughes is one of the most dominant fighters of all time, Josh Barnett was a champ and made it to the finals of the GP.
StraightLeft
2/9/07 9:10:09PM

Posted by thelastking

IMO forest griffin is or was the most overrated fighter. he is not bad but some people had him a #1 contender or close to it before the loss to Jardine


I have to agree. I like Forrest alot, ha has a great personality and I hope he can come back better that ever but he has always been way overrated since the TUF 1 finally
BrAeDeN91
2/10/07 1:27:10AM
the only reason why mark coleman is not overrated is because after he won the gp he retartedly jumped into the ropes. everyone loved that
JimiMak
2/10/07 1:48:15AM
How is Barnett overrated? You do realize that he fought 8 or 9 fights last year right? and was still ranked top 3-4 in the world, being ranked (and sometimes fighting) against fighters that had 4 or 3 fights (or in the case of #1 only one fight not against even top 20 competition). IMO he is the most likely person to dethrone fedor. That would certainly screw up some mmath. That's the weird thing about how styles really do make fights. I think he would have just as hard a time with Tim as Fedor but would take him against either. Although there are still guys I would take against him... especially depending on circumstances. I say let him rest for 4-5 mos give him a tune up fight or two and he should be lookin at a titile shot by fall, if fedor defends even 2x's this year.
THE_AXE_MURDERER
2/17/07 3:45:44PM
The Hunnington Beach Fag Boy
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