UFC open to Erick Silva appeal; Dana White points to need for instant replay

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Kpro
1/15/12 7:31:48AM
Welterweight Erick Silva may not have left Saturday night's UFC 142 event as a winner, but he'll be paid like one.

At the evening's post-event press conference at Rio de Janeiro's HSBC Arena, UFC president Dana White told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) Silva will receive his win bonus despite being saddled with a disqualification loss.

"We're going to pay him like he won the fight," White told MMAjunkie.com.

Silva (13-2 MMA, 1-1 UFC) took on Carlo Prater (30-10-1 MMA, 1-0 UFC) on the evening's main card and appeared to notch a 29-second TKO win after landing a powerful knee to the body and following up with punches on the floor. However, after referee Mario Yamasaki waved off the fight, he revealed he was ruling the contest a disqualification as Silva's blows were deemed to have illegally landed to the back of the head. While a referee could simply deduct a point for the infraction, Prater was in no shape to continue, forcing the DQ.

White said he disagreed with Yamasaki's assessment of the fight-ending sequence, prompting him to award the win bonus.

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pmoney
1/15/12 7:35:38AM
Instant replay?

No reason not to use it. Those feeds are playing back in the stadium as soon as they are for the home audience. With all that delay after the fight was stopped, they could have watched the tape repeatedly and made the right call.

That was heartbreaking to see Erick Silva get robbed by Yamasaki like that. Screw my 11 points (and I am sure the many others that had Silva to win), that kid needs that win on his record.
prozacnation1978
1/15/12 10:43:30AM
I am for it
After fight is over the ref could see if he miss saw something and change the outcome right there in the cage
Sir_Karl
1/15/12 11:01:53AM
I agree with instant replays. I also feel they need to figure out a different outcome when someone does get DQed, I feel Silva did land three or four to the back of Prater's head. I feel he should have been DQed....but I don't feel Carlo should get a win. Another case would be the Hamill/Jones fight. Jones should have been DQed....but Hamill should not have gotten a win. The only way a fighter should get a win during a fight that ends in a DQ is when he was actually winning the fight before the infraction took place. Maybe DQ and NC?
Twenty20Dollars
1/15/12 12:33:43PM
Does anyone think the injury to Prater affected Mario's decision to call it a DQ?

Silva was just too quick for Mario to even warn him about the back of the head, I know Silva knows not to hit there and he was just trying to be quick and throw punches while Prater is moving his head.
Twenty20Dollars
1/15/12 12:40:15PM
I mean Joe kept pressing Mario.

But Mario had to make the real time, quick flash call right there and for him in real time it looked like some were hitting the back of the head and that's what I thought.

I mean just think about in baseball when the ump called the runner safe in that no-hitter with the last out for Tiger's pitcher. He had to make a real time call, even though it was the wrong call.
KungFuMaster
1/15/12 1:40:11PM
I agree the instant replay should be used - and there should be one or two secondary refs to help make the ruling.
State_Champ
1/15/12 2:06:25PM
Instant replay in this case would have shown at least one punch/hammerfist directly to the back of the head.
Would the result of the fight be any different?
BeeR
1/15/12 2:23:30PM
I saw one clear shot to the back of the head.
accidental.

most guys dont even get warned until the second one.

praters injury definitely played a role in marios decision.


BuffaloDave
1/15/12 2:29:44PM
Glad to see the UFC is treating it as if he won the fight, by giving him his win bonus and moving him up the ladder.

I think the instant replay would benefit the sport. There is only one ref seeing the fight, things can happen so fast, sometimes that can't see every little detail it becomes a questionable call for them, instant replay can help all that out.
prophecy033
1/15/12 3:47:44PM
I think replay is needed in certain situations. My biggest complaint is the inconsistent calls from these refs. How many times have we seen punches to the back of the head not be called and then in another fight on the same card with a different ref they do get penalized. Same with grabbing the fence. I just want consistency
Bubbles
1/15/12 4:49:13PM
i agree with instant replay. i only saw 1 punch to the back of the head...even Rogan was grilling Yamasaki on the spot. i could have sworn Prater was complaining about his shoulder after the stoppage too, which means that 1 shot didnt cause the end of the fight.

i remember when Aldo TKO'd Gamburyan and he landed like 3 or 4 clear shots to the back of the head before the stoppage and nothing was made of it

speaking of Aldo, there should have been a point deducted from that fence grab. without that there would not be that KO and the entire outcome of the fight is different.
tmas
1/15/12 9:42:00PM

Posted by Bubbles

i agree with instant replay. i only saw 1 punch to the back of the head...even Rogan was grilling Yamasaki on the spot. i could have sworn Prater was complaining about his shoulder after the stoppage too, which means that 1 shot didnt cause the end of the fight.

i remember when Aldo TKO'd Gamburyan and he landed like 3 or 4 clear shots to the back of the head before the stoppage and nothing was made of it

speaking of Aldo, there should have been a point deducted from that fence grab. without that there would not be that KO and the entire outcome of the fight is different.



so you are a fortune teller?
Kpro
1/15/12 9:52:36PM
Even if we already had instant replay, if it was handled by the AC's, there would've been no instant replay in Rio. Dunno if the UFC would want to be the one handling it, sounds like a conflict of interest possiblly.
Geoffo
1/15/12 9:55:09PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Does anyone think the injury to Prater affected Mario's decision to call it a DQ?

Silva was just too quick for Mario to even warn him about the back of the head, I know Silva knows not to hit there and he was just trying to be quick and throw punches while Prater is moving his head.



I think so 100%. Prater complaining about his injury influenced Mario's decision. I can't be sure but I believe in this.
Bubbles
1/15/12 11:44:23PM

Posted by tmas


Posted by Bubbles

i agree with instant replay. i only saw 1 punch to the back of the head...even Rogan was grilling Yamasaki on the spot. i could have sworn Prater was complaining about his shoulder after the stoppage too, which means that 1 shot didnt cause the end of the fight.

i remember when Aldo TKO'd Gamburyan and he landed like 3 or 4 clear shots to the back of the head before the stoppage and nothing was made of it

speaking of Aldo, there should have been a point deducted from that fence grab. without that there would not be that KO and the entire outcome of the fight is different.



so you are a fortune teller?



no, but do you actually believe that Aldo would have spun out of the clinch and KOd Mendes at the end of the 1st round if he was taken down? we have no idea how the fight would have played out minus the fence grab, but i can say with the utmost confidence that Aldo would not have delivered the EXACT same outcome if he was taken down
bjj1605
1/15/12 11:51:16PM

Posted by tmas


Posted by Bubbles

i agree with instant replay. i only saw 1 punch to the back of the head...even Rogan was grilling Yamasaki on the spot. i could have sworn Prater was complaining about his shoulder after the stoppage too, which means that 1 shot didnt cause the end of the fight.

i remember when Aldo TKO'd Gamburyan and he landed like 3 or 4 clear shots to the back of the head before the stoppage and nothing was made of it

speaking of Aldo, there should have been a point deducted from that fence grab. without that there would not be that KO and the entire outcome of the fight is different.



so you are a fortune teller?



Seriously.


After that one fence grab Aldo stopped grabbing it.

Mendez got him up and down several times but Aldo was able to maintain his balance or spring right back up every time WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FENCE.

Its silly to pick out the one time he did grab it instead of the half dozen times he didn't.


It didn't change the fight outcome at all.
Bubbles
1/16/12 12:38:29AM

Posted by bjj1605


Posted by tmas


Posted by Bubbles

i agree with instant replay. i only saw 1 punch to the back of the head...even Rogan was grilling Yamasaki on the spot. i could have sworn Prater was complaining about his shoulder after the stoppage too, which means that 1 shot didnt cause the end of the fight.

i remember when Aldo TKO'd Gamburyan and he landed like 3 or 4 clear shots to the back of the head before the stoppage and nothing was made of it

speaking of Aldo, there should have been a point deducted from that fence grab. without that there would not be that KO and the entire outcome of the fight is different.



so you are a fortune teller?



Seriously.


After that one fence grab Aldo stopped grabbing it.

Mendez got him up and down several times but Aldo was able to maintain his balance or spring right back up every time WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FENCE.

Its silly to pick out the one time he did grab it instead of the half dozen times he didn't.


It didn't change the fight outcome at all.



yes it did, and to think otherwise is fallible. im not saying Mendes would have won without it, but the outcome would have been different. Aldo maybe would have delivered a head kick KO in the 2nd round, or won a dominant decision. on the flip side, Mendes could have sliced open Aldo with an elbow from the ground and had the fight stopped. there are endless different outcomes that would have happened. Aldo grabbing the fence directly lead to him spinning out of the clinch and landing that knee. if the ref stepped in and docked Aldo a point, that knee would not have happened in that fashion.
Kpro
1/16/12 12:48:31AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by bjj1605
Seriously.


After that one fence grab Aldo stopped grabbing it.

Mendez got him up and down several times but Aldo was able to maintain his balance or spring right back up every time WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FENCE.

Its silly to pick out the one time he did grab it instead of the half dozen times he didn't.


It didn't change the fight outcome at all.



yes it did, and to think otherwise is fallible. im not saying Mendes would have won without it, but the outcome would have been different. Aldo maybe would have delivered a head kick KO in the 2nd round, or won a dominant decision. on the flip side, Mendes could have sliced open Aldo with an elbow from the ground and had the fight stopped. there are endless different outcomes that would have happened. Aldo grabbing the fence directly lead to him spinning out of the clinch and landing that knee. if the ref stepped in and docked Aldo a point, that knee would not have happened in that fashion.



bjj1605
1/16/12 11:00:41PM

Posted by Bubbles


yes it did, and to think otherwise is fallible. im not saying Mendes would have won without it, but the outcome would have been different. Aldo maybe would have delivered a head kick KO in the 2nd round, or won a dominant decision. on the flip side, Mendes could have sliced open Aldo with an elbow from the ground and had the fight stopped. there are endless different outcomes that would have happened. Aldo grabbing the fence directly lead to him spinning out of the clinch and landing that knee. if the ref stepped in and docked Aldo a point, that knee would not have happened in that fashion.



You quoted me but you pretty much ignored every thing I wrote. I'll try to re-phrase in the form of a question.

Given the fact that Aldo stopped three identical takedowns (with Melendez behind him and picking him up) how can you say that the fence grab was the reason he stopped the one?

It seems to me that he was able to stop every takedown, even identical ones, without grabbing the fence.

If he hadn't grabbed the fence that one time, he probably would have either:

A) Maintained his balance anyway.

or

B) Stood right back up, like he did the one time Melendez got him down (using an identical takedown.)

I agree with you that we can't no for sure. But every indication seems to suggest that the fence grab had no affect. Unless you are indeed a fortune teller, you have to go off of evidence instead of just speculation.
airkerma
1/17/12 10:00:27AM

Posted by bjj1605


Posted by Bubbles


yes it did, and to think otherwise is fallible. im not saying Mendes would have won without it, but the outcome would have been different. Aldo maybe would have delivered a head kick KO in the 2nd round, or won a dominant decision. on the flip side, Mendes could have sliced open Aldo with an elbow from the ground and had the fight stopped. there are endless different outcomes that would have happened. Aldo grabbing the fence directly lead to him spinning out of the clinch and landing that knee. if the ref stepped in and docked Aldo a point, that knee would not have happened in that fashion.



You quoted me but you pretty much ignored every thing I wrote. I'll try to re-phrase in the form of a question.

Given the fact that Aldo stopped three identical takedowns (with Melendez behind him and picking him up) how can you say that the fence grab was the reason he stopped the one?

It seems to me that he was able to stop every takedown, even identical ones, without grabbing the fence.

If he hadn't grabbed the fence that one time, he probably would have either:

A) Maintained his balance anyway.

or

B) Stood right back up, like he did the one time Melendez got him down (using an identical takedown.)

I agree with you that we can't no for sure. But every indication seems to suggest that the fence grab had no affect. Unless you are indeed a fortune teller, you have to go off of evidence instead of just speculation.


You're both arguing different things, and both are correct. BJJ is correct that that single take down attempt would not have turned the fight around. Bubbles isn't saying that. Bubbles is saying that that very particular knee that Aldo landed would not have happened, because had Aldo not grabbed the fence, he never would have been in that position to turn and land a knee. This isn't a shot at the fighters, merely a speculative non-subjective observation based on the quantum mechanical principle of collapse theory (adapted to the tree falls in the woods anaology). The act of Aldo grabbing the fence changes all possible out comes. Had he not grabbed the fence, an infinite number of possible outcomes would arise, and the probability of that exact event happening is incredibly small. Refer to the "cone of light" if this still isn't making sense (I admit it is splitting hairs).
bjj1605
1/18/12 1:12:05AM

Posted by airkerma


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by Bubbles


yes it did, and to think otherwise is fallible. im not saying Mendes would have won without it, but the outcome would have been different. Aldo maybe would have delivered a head kick KO in the 2nd round, or won a dominant decision. on the flip side, Mendes could have sliced open Aldo with an elbow from the ground and had the fight stopped. there are endless different outcomes that would have happened. Aldo grabbing the fence directly lead to him spinning out of the clinch and landing that knee. if the ref stepped in and docked Aldo a point, that knee would not have happened in that fashion.



You quoted me but you pretty much ignored every thing I wrote. I'll try to re-phrase in the form of a question.

Given the fact that Aldo stopped three identical takedowns (with Melendez behind him and picking him up) how can you say that the fence grab was the reason he stopped the one?

It seems to me that he was able to stop every takedown, even identical ones, without grabbing the fence.

If he hadn't grabbed the fence that one time, he probably would have either:

A) Maintained his balance anyway.

or

B) Stood right back up, like he did the one time Melendez got him down (using an identical takedown.)

I agree with you that we can't no for sure. But every indication seems to suggest that the fence grab had no affect. Unless you are indeed a fortune teller, you have to go off of evidence instead of just speculation.


You're both arguing different things, and both are correct. BJJ is correct that that single take down attempt would not have turned the fight around. Bubbles isn't saying that. Bubbles is saying that that very particular knee that Aldo landed would not have happened, because had Aldo not grabbed the fence, he never would have been in that position to turn and land a knee. This isn't a shot at the fighters, merely a speculative non-subjective observation based on the quantum mechanical principle of collapse theory (adapted to the tree falls in the woods anaology). The act of Aldo grabbing the fence changes all possible out comes. Had he not grabbed the fence, an infinite number of possible outcomes would arise, and the probability of that exact event happening is incredibly small. Refer to the "cone of light" if this still isn't making sense (I admit it is splitting hairs).



You're getting a little bit to "Butterfly Effect"--y for me here.


If Aldo had stopped the takedown being completed but not escaped the position, those same subsequent failed takedown attempts would have occurred.

The Knockout resulted from one of those. There's know way that I can prove to you that it would have happened still. There's know way you can prove that it wouldn't have.

Everything we're doing here is predictive, which can never be proven.

I think I've got the better evidence but its a moot point really.

Anyway, agree to disagree with Bubbles and agree to agree while still disagreeing with airkerma.
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