the old Hughes?

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MFOTHER
5/9/08 9:46:47AM
Although he said on TUF that he only had a few fights left, and all but said he was stopping at the GSP fight hughes says he is loking forward to alves, and wants to bring out the old matt.
He also now says hes got alot of good fighs in him.

wonder what changed his mind

he did say at the GSP fight that he'll listen to what dana and UFC asks him to do but it jusgt seems to me like a big change.

link





i also didnt know he took this fight with the agreement that he gets sera later this year win or loose.
Rush
5/9/08 9:57:00AM
He said after his first loss to GSP that he was going back to his old ways and it barely worked well for Lytle and obviously didn't work for GSP. I think he'll beat Alves, but I don't think it will be a spectacular or quick finish.
mrsmiley
5/9/08 10:01:47AM

Posted by Rush

He said after his first loss to GSP that he was going back to his old ways and it barely worked well for Lytle and obviously didn't work for GSP. I think he'll beat Alves, but I don't think it will be a spectacular or quick finish.



Agree.For some reason I see this going down like Ortiz and Coyte.It was like Tito won that fight and he needed the win,but the finish was so lackluster that it said more for Coyte than it did Ortiz..Maybe that's a wierd analogy,but that's what I see this fight doing for Hughes.
MFOTHER
5/9/08 10:03:47AM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by Rush

He said after his first loss to GSP that he was going back to his old ways and it barely worked well for Lytle and obviously didn't work for GSP. I think he'll beat Alves, but I don't think it will be a spectacular or quick finish.



Agree.For some reason I see this going down like Ortiz and Coyte.It was like Tito won that fight and he needed the win,but the finish was so lackluster that it said more for Coyte than it did Ortiz..Maybe that's a wierd analogy,but that's what I see this fight doing for Hughes.



well i see what ur saying. there are obvious differences
do u guys think it will be a lackluster win over serra as well, or do you think he will loose?

i guess the alves fight needs to happen before we can say
jocka
5/9/08 10:06:59AM
I was never a big fan of MAtt Hugues and honestly i hope he just retires already, he was champ for a long time and he should go out while he is still respected as a fighter. plus i don t see him winning against Alves or Serra.
bigbubbano23
5/9/08 6:46:08PM
i hope hughes vs serra is held in new york since it should be legal by then.
Rush
5/9/08 9:27:05PM

Posted by MFOTHER

well i see what ur saying. there are obvious differences
do u guys think it will be a lackluster win over serra as well, or do you think he will loose?

i guess the alves fight needs to happen before we can say




I only think the Alves fight might be a UD for Hughes based on his performance against Lytle as well as how Alves fought Karo. There is a big chance I am way off and it would not disappoint me if the fight ended in a bang for either fighter.

However,

I actually think that the Serra fight has more potential to be exciting because I think more will happen on the ground.... and it will be going to the ground.
fonduktoe
5/10/08 2:41:00AM
hughes just doesn't have the skill set to dominate like he used to
it's a testament to the evolution of mma that he no longer can wrestle his way through a string of victories
his legacy is top notch but the torch has already, imo, been passed
i predict alves by tko
ICSlegend
5/10/08 11:17:24AM

Posted by fonduktoe

hughes just doesn't have the skill set to dominate like he used to
it's a testament to the evolution of mma that he no longer can wrestle his way through a string of victories
his legacy is top notch but the torch has already, imo, been passed
i predict alves by tko



And how many times was Hughes TKOd in his career? His record is the most impressive I've seen.

Not saying it won't happen, but Hughes is probably the most dominant MMA fighter in history. Give him his dues. He's got the skills, he's just getting older. It's a testament to physical ablities deteriorating with age (unless you're Couture). He can't be as explosive, fast, and powerful as he was when he was in his prime. I still think the best Hughes can beat GSP.
fonduktoe
5/10/08 11:56:20AM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fonduktoe

hughes just doesn't have the skill set to dominate like he used to
it's a testament to the evolution of mma that he no longer can wrestle his way through a string of victories
his legacy is top notch but the torch has already, imo, been passed
i predict alves by tko



And how many times was Hughes TKOd in his career? His record is the most impressive I've seen.

Not saying it won't happen, but Hughes is probably the most dominant MMA fighter in history. Give him his dues. He's got the skills, he's just getting older. It's a testament to physical ablities deteriorating with age (unless you're Couture). He can't be as explosive, fast, and powerful as he was when he was in his prime. I still think the best Hughes can beat GSP.



i said his legacy is top notch but lets face reality- hughes is a wrestler in an octagon period. in his illustrious career how many wins has he scored by ko?
i'll tell you -zero
mrsmiley
5/10/08 2:42:09PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by MFOTHER

well i see what ur saying. there are obvious differences
do u guys think it will be a lackluster win over serra as well, or do you think he will loose?

i guess the alves fight needs to happen before we can say




I only think the Alves fight might be a UD for Hughes based on his performance against Lytle as well as how Alves fought Karo. There is a big chance I am way off and it would not disappoint me if the fight ended in a bang for either fighter.

However,

I actually think that the Serra fight has more potential to be exciting because I think more will happen on the ground.... and it will be going to the ground.



Oh yeah.That is for sure.I think Hughes can take Serra,but Serra's BJJ skills should get some heavy respect from Matt by the time the match is over.I predict we might see a re-run of Serra/GSP 2,only Hughes will look less dominating than GSP did.
ICSlegend
5/10/08 11:58:54PM

Posted by fonduktoe

i said his legacy is top notch but lets face reality- hughes is a wrestler in an octagon period. in his illustrious career how many wins has he scored by ko?
i'll tell you -zero



Actually he has a few KOs, so you would be WRONG in saying he has zero.
He KOd Newton by slam, and he KOd some other guy a long time ago. Not a lot, but he's got a good amount of TKOs.

Fedor has ZERO KOs. What's you point?

It's MMA, what difference does it make if you have KOs or not? If you win, you win. I'm not following you here.
Jackelope
5/11/08 12:24:47AM
Hughes may not be straight KO'ing fools on the feet, but he's got plenty of submission by strikes and TKO's in his career.

Also, I'd like to add that Chris Lytle is one of the most underrated fighters in MMA today, and while Hughes didn't finish him, he DEFINITELY dominated the entirety of that fight. That's nothing to scoff at.
Kpro
5/11/08 12:28:14AM
I see Alves with the TKO as well.
MFOTHER
5/11/08 12:36:28PM
i read all the replies, and although i apprecate the input, noone really answer my question, just kinda turned into a hughes alves thread.


what i meant to ask more clearly is ... what made hughes go from saying he only had 2-3 more fight left in him, to saying he has a lot of good fights, and that he wants to bring back the old hughes
mrsmiley
5/11/08 3:29:56PM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fonduktoe

i said his legacy is top notch but lets face reality- hughes is a wrestler in an octagon period. in his illustrious career how many wins has he scored by ko?
i'll tell you -zero



Actually he has a few KOs, so you would be WRONG in saying he has zero.
He KOd Newton by slam, and he KOd some other guy a long time ago. Not a lot, but he's got a good amount of TKOs.

Fedor has ZERO KOs. What's you point?

It's MMA, what difference does it make if you have KOs or not? If you win, you win. I'm not following you here.



Hughes Ko'ed Newton and Johnson,and has several TKO's.
Fedor has one KO win in RINGS,and has several TKO victories as well.
mrsmiley
5/11/08 6:52:51PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fonduktoe

i said his legacy is top notch but lets face reality- hughes is a wrestler in an octagon period. in his illustrious career how many wins has he scored by ko?
i'll tell you -zero



Actually he has a few KOs, so you would be WRONG in saying he has zero.
He KOd Newton by slam, and he KOd some other guy a long time ago. Not a lot, but he's got a good amount of TKOs.

Fedor has ZERO KOs. What's you point?

It's MMA, what difference does it make if you have KOs or not? If you win, you win. I'm not following you here.



Hughes Ko'ed Newton and Johnson,and has several TKO's.
Fedor has one KO win in RINGS,and has several TKO victories as well.



I get what you're saying though
ICSlegend
5/11/08 9:04:44PM

Posted by mrsmiley

Hughes Ko'ed Newton and Johnson,and has several TKO's.
Fedor has one KO win in RINGS,and has several TKO victories as well.



Have you seen the Fedor-Takada fight in RINGS? It was not a KO at all. Takada was stunned, and probably didn't know where he was, but he was fully conscious, not knocked out. Its just a TKO.

cowcatcher
5/11/08 11:40:19PM

Posted by MFOTHER

i read all the replies, and although i apprecate the input, noone really answer my question, just kinda turned into a hughes alves thread.


what i meant to ask more clearly is ... what made hughes go from saying he only had 2-3 more fight left in him, to saying he has a lot of good fights, and that he wants to bring back the old hughes



short answer: hes a pro athelte and he hasnt done anything else to make a living so its hard to walk away.

he made the comments about leaving really shortly after his loss to gsp and after going back to training his confidence was probably picked back up some. the only thing that im guessing happened was he had more time to think things through and realize that hes still a top 10 WW in anyones rankings, and the most dominant fighter in ufc history(arguably) so why walk away.
chubbud22
5/12/08 2:29:37AM
IMHO Hughes could beat any Welter Weight in the world besides GSP. He dominated that division for so long, and ran into a road block. I was one of the biggest Matt Hughes haters for a long time, but have developed a lot of respect for him. Matt Hughes will be a hall of famer and it is well deserved.
MFOTHER
5/12/08 9:25:18AM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by MFOTHER

i read all the replies, and although i apprecate the input, noone really answer my question, just kinda turned into a hughes alves thread.


what i meant to ask more clearly is ... what made hughes go from saying he only had 2-3 more fight left in him, to saying he has a lot of good fights, and that he wants to bring back the old hughes



short answer: hes a pro athelte and he hasnt done anything else to make a living so its hard to walk away.

he made the comments about leaving really shortly after his loss to gsp and after going back to training his confidence was probably picked back up some. the only thing that im guessing happened was he had more time to think things through and realize that hes still a top 10 WW in anyones rankings, and the most dominant fighter in ufc history(arguably) so why walk away.




well the first time i heard him say he was almost done was on TUF, months before the GSP fight, and actually before he even knew he was fighting george.

Also he owns a working farm, which he said he wants to focus on when he's done fighting

i agree with you that through trainng etc his confidence grew, and why not fight
just seemed like a sudden change of mind.
and going from 2-3 fights to a lot left in me seemed like a big jump

im not picking you apart, but you're the only one who really answered my question!!
cowcatcher
5/12/08 10:23:36AM
let me add to what i said before, he made the comments on tuf when he thought he would be fighting serra. my thought is he wanted to get the title back from serra then beat gsp and go out on top when he originally said 2 or 3 fights and he was done. then when he rehashed that he might be done following the gsp loss it was more or less out of disappointment and having his confidence basically ripped away. as far as the farm goes, its not like thats going to be his main focus after he retires now that the hit squad gym is open, its more of a hobby/relaxation tool than a job to him from what i gather.
mrsmiley
5/12/08 2:58:09PM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by mrsmiley

Hughes Ko'ed Newton and Johnson,and has several TKO's.
Fedor has one KO win in RINGS,and has several TKO victories as well.



Have you seen the Fedor-Takada fight in RINGS? It was not a KO at all. Takada was stunned, and probably didn't know where he was, but he was fully conscious, not knocked out. Its just a TKO.




LOL.Yeah I saw it.But at the same token you can take a fight,like the one against Goodridge,and may as well make that a KO as opposed to a TKO,cause their was no way Goodridge was going to get back up.Much like the Takada fight,he wasn't getting up.I think their is a fine line between what makes a KO and what makes a TKO.

Even though Hughes was awarded the win against Newton,you could have really argued that a double KO.Hughes was just the first one to wake up.
MFOTHER
5/12/08 4:54:05PM

Posted by cowcatcher

let me add to what i said before, he made the comments on tuf when he thought he would be fighting serra. my thought is he wanted to get the title back from serra then beat gsp and go out on top when he originally said 2 or 3 fights and he was done. then when he rehashed that he might be done following the gsp loss it was more or less out of disappointment and having his confidence basically ripped away. as far as the farm goes, its not like thats going to be his main focus after he retires now that the hit squad gym is open, its more of a hobby/relaxation tool than a job to him from what i gather.



good post man. that makes sense. If he would havbe beaten serra to get the title back, what else could he do, he's beaten the who's who of the division, but now with a couple of losses, and him being a few fight just from a title shot, he could be re-invigorated. not sure if this is what happens, but it makes sense
89vision
5/12/08 8:45:46PM
the old hughes still isnt able to keep up with the guys around now, hes lucky BJ injured himself at UFC 63 and why wouldnt dana ever put him up against karo, diego, fitch or kos? and think about this, if one of the above: koscheck, diego or fitch were around in that time in their prime they would be the ones wrecking everybody including hughes, you cant get by in this business anymore being a one dimensional wrestler, most of them are well rounded these days, this is why thiago was able to nulify karo and get the KO and also why thiago will win this upcoming fight, out with the old and in with the new
cowcatcher
5/12/08 9:52:50PM

Posted by 89vision

the old hughes still isnt able to keep up with the guys around now, hes lucky BJ injured himself at UFC 63 and why wouldnt dana ever put him up against karo, diego, fitch or kos? and think about this, if one of the above: koscheck, diego or fitch were around in that time in their prime they would be the ones wrecking everybody including hughes, you cant get by in this business anymore being a one dimensional wrestler, most of them are well rounded these days, this is why thiago was able to nulify karo and get the KO and also why thiago will win this upcoming fight, out with the old and in with the new



let me ask you this: was hughes lucky to pull an armbar so slick that BJJ blackbelts had to take notice on GSP? he is not one dimensional because some guy on sherdog says so, he is a great takedown guy, and has very good subs. now his striking has never been more than servicable, but he has subs from top and bottom, and his GnP is as good as anyones has ever been, thats more than one dimension in my book. im not trying to dress yopu down, but the talk of hughes being completely one dimensional irritates me because up until a year and a half ago he was destroying all comers, and as far as im concerned in a year and a half MMA hasnt been completely turned upside down by a bunch of guys that are incredible all around, its the same guys getting a little better and matt getting a little closer to the end, thats all.
89vision
5/13/08 4:35:37AM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by 89vision

the old hughes still isnt able to keep up with the guys around now, hes lucky BJ injured himself at UFC 63 and why wouldnt dana ever put him up against karo, diego, fitch or kos? and think about this, if one of the above: koscheck, diego or fitch were around in that time in their prime they would be the ones wrecking everybody including hughes, you cant get by in this business anymore being a one dimensional wrestler, most of them are well rounded these days, this is why thiago was able to nulify karo and get the KO and also why thiago will win this upcoming fight, out with the old and in with the new



let me ask you this: was hughes lucky to pull an armbar so slick that BJJ blackbelts had to take notice on GSP? he is not one dimensional because some guy on sherdog says so, he is a great takedown guy, and has very good subs. now his striking has never been more than servicable, but he has subs from top and bottom, and his GnP is as good as anyones has ever been, thats more than one dimension in my book. im not trying to dress yopu down, but the talk of hughes being completely one dimensional irritates me because up until a year and a half ago he was destroying all comers, and as far as im concerned in a year and a half MMA hasnt been completely turned upside down by a bunch of guys that are incredible all around, its the same guys getting a little better and matt getting a little closer to the end, thats all.



no its gsp's fault he tapped with 1 second left....ugh, i find him one dimensional, not quite like sherk but just not that great anywhere except in the clinch and on top, ok maybe i shoulda gave him credit for 2 or 3 dimensions where as alot of these newer and rookie guys coming around are all around and its shows, wasnt really trying to disrespect what hughes has done hes fortunate, i mean its not like this was even the point of my post anyway it was more less a comparison.

PS: take out his ufc 63 injury win and its been 2 and a half years since newer-comers havnt had a shot at him (minus gsp) dont forget he won one of the most b/s decisions in the ufc when he fought charuto

PPS: im not from sherdog

peace
EON
5/13/08 4:55:49AM
Alves by KO
ICSlegend
5/13/08 1:28:01PM

Posted by mrsmiley

LOL.Yeah I saw it.But at the same token you can take a fight,like the one against Goodridge,and may as well make that a KO as opposed to a TKO,cause their was no way Goodridge was going to get back up.Much like the Takada fight,he wasn't getting up.I think their is a fine line between what makes a KO and what makes a TKO.

Even though Hughes was awarded the win against Newton,you could have really argued that a double KO.Hughes was just the first one to wake up.



No, you can't make the Goodridge fight a KO.

KO = Knocked Out.

There is no fine line, either you're unconscious or you're not.

It doesn't matter if Goodridge could get up or not, he was fully conscious, with his hands up to add, covering up (some could say "intelligently defending", I don't know if I would go that far).

And I don't think you have seen the Takada fight. Takada was ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING UP when the ref called the fight. That's as far from a KO as you can get.

Fedor doesn't have KO power. Never had, never will. Doesn't matter, he will TKO and sub just about everyone and that's my point. Hughes might not have KO power either, but he doesn't need it to win.

And I would not argue the double KO, if you watch his leg, Hughes never stopped moving (therefore safe to assume he was conscious). Newton got laid the F out. Not hard to decide a winner there. Of course Hughes would be in a daze, but he wasn't fully unconscious, unlike Newton.

By the way, if you can't tell my tone above, I'm not trying to flame you or anything, everything is meant perfectly calm, no offense intended, buddy.
mrsmiley
5/13/08 9:53:24PM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by mrsmiley

LOL.Yeah I saw it.But at the same token you can take a fight,like the one against Goodridge,and may as well make that a KO as opposed to a TKO,cause their was no way Goodridge was going to get back up.Much like the Takada fight,he wasn't getting up.I think their is a fine line between what makes a KO and what makes a TKO.

Even though Hughes was awarded the win against Newton,you could have really argued that a double KO.Hughes was just the first one to wake up.



No, you can't make the Goodridge fight a KO.

KO = Knocked Out.

There is no fine line, either you're unconscious or you're not.

It doesn't matter if Goodridge could get up or not, he was fully conscious, with his hands up to add, covering up (some could say "intelligently defending", I don't know if I would go that far).

And I don't think you have seen the Takada fight. Takada was ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING UP when the ref called the fight. That's as far from a KO as you can get.

Fedor doesn't have KO power. Never had, never will. Doesn't matter, he will TKO and sub just about everyone and that's my point. Hughes might not have KO power either, but he doesn't need it to win.

And I would not argue the double KO, if you watch his leg, Hughes never stopped moving (therefore safe to assume he was conscious). Newton got laid the F out. Not hard to decide a winner there. Of course Hughes would be in a daze, but he wasn't fully unconscious, unlike Newton.

By the way, if you can't tell my tone above, I'm not trying to flame you or anything, everything is meant perfectly calm, no offense intended, buddy.



LOL.Don't worry,I don't take it personaly.But in the Takada fight if you watch he rolls after the fight is stopped,and then when they cut to the next camera he actualy hasn't gotten up,and you see a group of people around him.I had to watch it a few times because I thought what in the hell happened,then I noticed the group of people and saw Takada hadn't gotten up though when he got to his knees it appeared he was going to get up.
.http://youtube.com/watch?v=EH6wUn6Qo_Q

As for the Hughes Newton fight,I say double KO,because in the book BRAWL (ECW publishing Eric Krauss,Bret Aita) the book goes on to describe how the match was a double KO,and that Big John could not see Hughes face and that he was out.It goes on to talk about how the match was a tough break for Newton.Watching the fight,you can even see the shock on Hughes face as he learns he won the fight.
This has been discussed on the forums before,and as one poster clearly points out,Hughes can be herd telling Militech and his other cornermen that he was out.
http://www.mmaplayground.com/discussion/topic/newton-hughes-7857p1.html
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