Official "UFC Major Talent Cuts Of Late 2008" Thread

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DCRage
11/20/08 11:08:29AM
Since it seems we're starting to get over-run by these threads let's try to keep it to one official thread now. Discuss anything related to the now-underway major UFC roster cuts, whether it be guys already cut, who could be cut next, where they go from here, rants, etc. all in here.

Also, as usual no promotion/promoter bashing and the like. Yes, I know many of you really are upset about this and want to go on bleep-filled rants against Dana because of what's going on, but not here.

Here's what's known so far:
CUT: Jon Fitch, Christian Wellisch, Fabricio Werdum, Marcus Aurelio (the last 2 were earlier cuts unrelated to the others here)

UNRELATED CUTS (for other reasons and/or by mutual agreements): Josh Hendricks, Jorge Gurgel, Sokoudjou, Jess Liaudin

TO BE CUT SOON: Josh Koscheck (after UFC Fights For The Troops),

SAFE (will not or assumedly will not be cut): Mike Swick, Forrest Griffin, Chuck Liddell

Above will be updated as more cuts are made.

Update 1: Fitch signed the contract. He's back in UFC and thus his 94 fight against Akihiro Gono remains on.

Update 2: After he was cut, Gurgel signed with Strikeforce.

Update 3: Velasquez has worked out something and is staying in UFC. Kos is believed to be going over the deal now and most predict he will also stay in UFC.
postman
11/20/08 11:11:55AM
Wait I don't come on for a day and John Fitch is cut?
DCRage
11/20/08 11:13:32AM
It happened late yesterday, there's still all kinds of stuff coming out about it. Plus Cain & Kos are about to go as well.

Mania has another update up now on Fitch, scroll to the end of this article:
Article
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 11:14:26AM
Well I guess when some of you guys won't be watching the UFC any more

When you start your own Fight Promotion you can give people the world..

It F-ing amazes me that know one really has an idea how the negotiations went down, they are all just pissed John got cut.....


This reminds me of how every one was pissed about Randy's pay and then Zuffa opened there records and proved that Randy was lying and *poof* the issue went away but Dana and Zuffa remained evil

I'm not saying I'm OK with this or not mad,
cuz I am, but I am going to let the story unfold until I start pointing fingers
Rush
11/20/08 11:23:27AM
I've been saying it for a long time now. The UFC is not the place for the best fighters in the world. It's the place for the best fighters in the world that make Dana (Zuffa) the most money. As much as Dana likes a lot of these guys, I really believe all his "bending over backwards for these guys" is strongly motivated by how much money and exposure they can get for the company.

When I read about the situation it sounds like the deal is that Zuffa has the rights to these guys likenesses, therefore they make money when the likeness is used, not the fighter. At least that's the way I read into it. I don't see why any fighter would have a problem if they got paid for their likeness. Mark Hammil still gets cheques in the mail every time Hasbro makes a Luke Skywalker figure.
MMA_Alex
11/20/08 11:23:34AM
The update DC just provided seems to point out AKA as having some part in this. I agree with Kracker_Jap in that I think we should wait until some more details come out before jumping the gun on Dana.
DCRage
11/20/08 11:27:45AM
I also think that Dana's reaction on the radio show suggests that initially he jumped to conclusions. He probably thought that initially it was Fitch who didn't sign the deal and then went into expletive-rant mode, then a short time later he realized that it probably was Fitch's management who rejected the deal and maybe Fitch had no say in it so Dana tried to sort of make amends with his now-cut fighter. So yes, it just sounds like everyone's in "initial overreaction" mode, which is understandable given the shock of the news but eventually cooler heads should prevail as more details come out.
haggiswashere
11/20/08 11:27:47AM

Posted by postman

Wait I don't come on for a day and John Fitch is cut?



thats right. its all your fault!!!! jk
emfleek
11/20/08 11:29:19AM
Oh well...I'll be a Fitch fan regardless of where he's fighting. I'm still holding on to hope that he doesn't end up leaving the UFC, though.

WAR FITCH
DCRage
11/20/08 11:30:07AM
Also, for those wondering I just did a quick Wiki search for AKA fighters in UFC, and if this list I saw is accurate only Fitch, Kos, and Cain are on the block here. The rest of their guys fight for other organizations.

Edit: Another update from Mania:
Article

And another one plus a Q&A with Fitch, appears to be from yesterday:
Article

Finally, Junkie says this means no business will be done with AKA fighters now or in the future. So the answer to "will we see Cung Le, Trevor Prangley, Josh Thomson and some others" anytime soon in UFC is NO.
Rush
11/20/08 11:30:40AM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

It F-ing amazes me that know one really has an idea how the negotiations went down, they are all just pissed John got cut.....





It doesn't amaze me. When a fighter gets paid less it doesn't affect the fans, but this affects the fans so of course it pisses them off. I've been leaving this kind of angle out of my posts, but it's down right true. The hypocrisy is clear as day.

I think people should look at the long term and not the short term.

1) These guys are fighters, they will sign with some other organization, Dream, Affliction, whatever and we will see them fight again

2) If this bodes ill for the UFC, they will learn their lesson and things should be better in the long run.

3) The fighters eventually cave and go back to the UFC and everything is as it was yesterday.


All in all I care about the image of the sport itself, not the level of (financial) success of a company or fighter. This is not going to have a large impact on the success of the UFC. It's clear to me that the UFC is making the transition of getting up and coming MMA fighters that are young, dumb and fully of delusions of grandeur. They are growing their own stock of fighters that they can get to sign their life away before they realize what happened.
stock
11/20/08 11:35:01AM
Why is nobody questioning AKA's contracts?
There should be no reason whey Fitch couldn't just do what he wants regardless of AKA's opinions.

The way I see it, this is a free world.

You can either sign a contract or choose not to sign a contract.
No harm, no foul.

I don't see what Dana did wrong.
I don't see what Fitch did wrong.
DCRage
11/20/08 11:37:32AM
Fitch likely did nothing wrong. It apparently was his management who handled it. Here's a specfic quote from Weekly on this:

Before anything was decided, Fitch says his managers tried to re-negotiate a different deal from the lifetime contract, but an ultimatum was soon made.
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 11:41:04AM
Rush is right with his three points he made......

This thing happens all the time in other sports like football, basketball, ect

The part I disagree with Rushes post is this...

Where would Jon Fitch be if the UFC did not promote him and build up his record.....

You made the comment the UFC is growing there own stock of fighters, Isn't that Fitch???? And if they grew him I believe they have the right to cut him

emfleek
11/20/08 11:41:35AM
By the way...having a UFC Roster Cuts thread is a great idea.

Good job, DC.
gartface
11/20/08 11:48:12AM

Posted by emfleek

By the way...having a UFC Roster Cuts thread is a great idea.

Good job, DC.


Agree. The number of them were getting out of hand. And the main posters on this site were just copying and pasting what they wrote in other ones to the new threads. It just wastes everyone's time to have so many threads about it.
DCRage
11/20/08 11:53:27AM
That's partly why I did it, a couple of threads were fine but it was an idea I'd been thinking about just because I knew it would happen. I just couldn't do it first thing today, not enough time when I got up to read everything and I was in just as much shock as everyone else over this. And it gives everyone a place to rant and vent about this...within the rules of course.
emfleek
11/20/08 11:57:54AM
I wish the details would start coming out. I'm really curious to find out what's really going on. I'm hoping cooler heads prevail and these guys don't end up getting cut afterall.
gartface
11/20/08 11:59:30AM

Posted by emfleek

I wish the details would start coming out. I'm really curious to find out what's really going on. I'm hoping cooler heads prevail and these guys don't end up getting cut afterall.


I do too. I really hope that if it is indeed the management's fault and not the fighter's fault, that Dana gives the AKA guys a chance to come in and talk about it. Because like I've said previously, it does not sound like they had a hand in this at all, it sounds like it was all management. But then again if Swick can do it on his own, why can't the others?
Rush
11/20/08 12:32:59PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

Rush is right with his three points he made......

This thing happens all the time in other sports like football, basketball, ect

The part I disagree with Rushes post is this...

Where would Jon Fitch be if the UFC did not promote him and build up his record.....

You made the comment the UFC is growing there own stock of fighters, Isn't that Fitch???? And if they grew him I believe they have the right to cut him




Well, none of us know where he might have been if he didn't go to the UFC.

Honestly, I don't believe they tried to build up his career. If they were trying to build it up, why did he constantly fight on the undercards. It wasn't until he fought Diego that they UFC actually started trying to sell him as the "black sheep" of the division.

Any fighter that has had some history of consistent fights in the UFC could be said to be built up by organization, but I feel that it differs to the kind of building up that the UFC does with its TUF fighters.

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing whether they UFC has a right to cut him or not. In fact, I am neither supporting or condemning it. I am just saying that I think a reason for the way the UFC has been doing business lately has more to do with getting young fighters to sign their life away when they are still wet behind the ears, than focusing on having a sable of the best fighters in the world.

It's not about the competition now, it's about making money in any way possible. Does anyone honestly believe Brock Lesnar would have gotten a title shot had he not been a really popular wrestling star in the past? No way! He got it because he makes the organization money. I give him credit for capitalizing on the opportunity, but the fact he got the opportunity is kind of a farce if you ask me.
juanez13
11/20/08 12:43:24PM

The only fighter that called me from AKA was Mike Swick. Mike Swick called me from AKA, that was it. And Mike Swick said, “Listen, I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t care what’s going on. I’m with you, I’m in business with you guys. You guys are my partners.” And I said, “I appreciate that, Mike. We look at you the same way.”

[...]

But if Fitch called me today, if Fitch called me right now and said, “Dana, listen, I don’t know what happened with my managers … but I want to work this out with you,” I’d work it out with Fitch in two seconds.

It has nothing to do with Jon Fitch or any other specific fighters. It has to do with the management team, the guys who own AKA. I don’t want to be in business with them anymore. End of story.

[...]

Yeah. And to be honest with you — I’m 100% honest on my three children — I don’t even know if Swick signed the video game deal or the merchandise deal. I have no clue if Swick signed anything. I don’t even know how many fights I have left with Swick. I don’t (care). … I don’t even know what he’s signed or hasn’t signed. I could care less. That’s not what this is all about.




From cagepotato.

I think this gives hope that Fitch will remain with the UFC afterall, he said he is gonna call Dana. And I think once they start talking they'll reach a deal. Here is hoping anyways.
gravy13
11/20/08 1:54:50PM

Posted by DCRage

Fitch likely did nothing wrong. It apparently was his management who handled it. Here's a specfic quote from Weekly on this:

Before anything was decided, Fitch says his managers tried to re-negotiate a different deal from the lifetime contract, but an ultimatum was soon made.



That sounds similar to what Brandon Vera's old manager did.....Interesting.....
State_Champ
11/20/08 2:04:41PM
I don't mind the UFC cuttig any of these guys. They are all good enough to get contracts with other organizations and earn money, plus they won't have to put up with s***t like this from the UFC.

Why is everyone so bothered, do you think they could be UFC champions?

I feel like I'm missing some piece of vital information, I cannot see why people are so flustered.

DCRage
11/20/08 2:16:36PM
He's only cut GSP's last challenger who was like the hottest guy in UFC and has cut and is about to cut another of the big pushed Heavyweight class, among other things.

Josh Hendricks is gone too but this is completely unrelated to the other cuts.
StevenSeagal
11/20/08 2:22:31PM

Posted by State_Champ

I don't mind the UFC cuttig any of these guys. They are all good enough to get contracts with other organizations and earn money, plus they won't have to put up with s***t like this from the UFC.

Why is everyone so bothered, do you think they could be UFC champions?

I feel like I'm missing some piece of vital information, I cannot see why people are so flustered.




I agree with the cuts, but would have started with others first. Down the road I would have ax'ed these guys as well, but not this soon. I agree that none will be title contenders, but that doesnt mean they should be cut...

guess just wait and see
cmill21
11/20/08 3:43:37PM
I personally think the people who agree with the UFC are blinded, they have to give up everything, the UFC is basically saying do exactly what we want or go fight in another org. I figured this is what would happen after Pride fell. We need two big mma promotions or Dana will keep doing this.
Kracker_Jap
11/20/08 3:59:08PM

Posted by cmill21

I personally think the people who agree with the UFC are blinded, they have to give up everything, the UFC is basically saying do exactly what we want or go fight in another org. I figured this is what would happen after Pride fell. We need two big mma promotions or Dana will keep doing this.



My name is Blind nice to meet you

BTW Dana is only the front man he is there to take the attention off of the Brothers and rest of the Zuffa executives......

But you have to really blind and dumb to recognize this
juanez13
11/20/08 4:04:36PM
I think both sides are Blind.

There are those who give Dana too much credit.

And there are those who discredit him too much.

dannyfrank
11/20/08 4:08:46PM
damn! they're cutting kos and cain too? that really sucks, and i hate kos
cmill21
11/20/08 4:11:45PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap


Posted by cmill21

I personally think the people who agree with the UFC are blinded, they have to give up everything, the UFC is basically saying do exactly what we want or go fight in another org. I figured this is what would happen after Pride fell. We need two big mma promotions or Dana will keep doing this.



My name is Blind nice to meet you

BTW Dana is only the front man he is there to take the attention off of the Brothers and rest of the Zuffa executives......

But you have to really blind and dumb to recognize this



President...face of the company, says he makes most of the decisions..seems legit. So you think a fighter should have to sign whatever the organizations offers? No matter what, with no negotiation?
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