Official Lesnar vs. Couture thread

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bjj1605
9/16/08 7:47:58PM

Posted by atlus

i'm sorry but i gotta make this assessment


randy couture has what a couple fights worth of footage on lesnar?

but lesnar has tons and tons of tapings of randy

lesnar also moves like a lightweight, and as experienced as mir and herring are, they were both so caught off gaurd by lesnars shere speed and when herring at that first blow it broke his orbital bone

lesnar is also an evolving fighter, he'll learn more and more but i think lesnars perfect gameplan is to use chuck liddells counter game to his best advantage and work on his submission defence and accuracy for this fight

i see, if lesnar is smart, first round KO

lets go on just records alone for a second

herring fought big nog, rocked him, coulda finished, didnt, still lost, randy couldnt finish tim, big nog finished time, lesnar gave herring his most pathetic loss of his intire carreer, after all that experience, he had nothing to answer to anything brock threw at him

youd think, after fighting so many of the best, the man would have something to use? doesnt herring have more fight experience than randy?




There's a couple problems with your argument.

1st-- Randy is the king of game plans. He will learn more about Lesnar from those few videos than Brock could off of a hundred fights. Brock is gonna "go donkey kong on his head" thats all he knows how to do. He' s big, strong, and explosive. He's also dumb, unskilled, one dimensional, and inexperienced. Randy is one of the smartest fighters (especially when it comes to game plans) and he's more well rounded and experienced.

2nd-- Chuck's counter punch approach would be horrible for Brock. He's big and a good wrestler. He's gonna bull rush randy, throw a big right hand, and then try to control him on the ground (with a couple of pathetic attempts at ground and pound.) Randy would pick him apart standing, and Brock's style is as far from Chuck as you could get. Chuck= patient striker. Brock= aggressive grappler.

3rd-- Records make lesnar look like a joke. He lost in the first round to Mir. Then he had a boring lay and pray showing against a past his prime journeyman fighter. Compared to randy's amazing career full of upsets and championships... i think you get the picture.

4th-- Herring has more experience. If you're counting only numbers of fights. But Randy has faced a consistent high level of competition and consistently been impressive. Whereas herring just managed to stay in the spot light. Not to mention herring lacks many of the skills, the heart, and the intangible ability to cause upsets that randy is known for.
mkiv9secsupra
9/17/08 12:14:55PM

Posted by bjj1605
1st-- Randy is the king of game plans.



And how is that? By beating Tim Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga? He didnt have a good gameplan against Barnett or Ricco, and Brock is going to do the same thing; take Couture down and pound on him. Randy has never looked comfortable on his back and there is no doubt thats where he will be in this fight.
atlus
9/17/08 7:03:48PM
bjj1065

i completely understand what you mean but...

what i'm saying is herring has had the experience to not make fatal mistakes

sure herring is no couture, but couture got knocked out twice by chuck and ill put all the money i have that brock can hit harder than chuck

i think brock should take the chuck aproach because he has the speed to move, dodge and weave and he has the wrestling to not get taken down, and i'm pretty sure he's gonna be working on alot of submission defence

randy is gonna get manhandled because brock is gonna probably gonna do pure wrestling and g n p and randy just isnt gonna be prepared for his speed, noone will until theyre on the ground defending blows or being knocked offhis feet, and since when has randy fought an explosive fighter? he's also got a glass chin too, the only reason herring didnt get knocked out is he's a survivor, randy is just gonna get outclassed and dana white knows this thats why he pitted randy against brock, i think he secretly wants to cut him and you'll all see it, if brock loses ill personally shave my head and post it on this forum and show everyone
AxeMurderer97
9/18/08 9:29:35PM
This fight is a hard one to call, but i'm calling Lesnar via Decision, or late TKO.

Randy isnt a big heavyweight at all, thats where i think he's in trouble. Brock was outworking a 250-260lb Heath Herring in their last fight. Though, Randy is a better wrestler than Herring, the size still plays a factor.
Randy will be around 230 i'm guessing, where Brock will be nearly 300, 285ish.

Randy clearly has the advantage in experience, that's a given. However i don't think Randy will be able to put Brock on his back at all due to Brocks great wrestling ability. One thing that's hella true about this fight, $$$$$. Especially with Wandy and Rampage fighting as well.

So all in all, this is what i see in this fight.

Brock vs Randy standing = ?, Randy showed great motion against Sylvia. Brock has bricks for fists with those god damn 4xl gloves.
Brock vs Randy ground = ?, if Brock is on top i don't think Randy will be able to do anything with him due to his size advantage. And Couture isnt exactly a submission specialist.
Brock vs Randy clinch/wrestling = Brock has the edge, imo. He has so much size on Randy and crazy strength. I doubt Randy will have Brock on his back at all during this fight.
Brock vs Randy cardio = This is another tough call, Lesnar is a work horse, but can he go 5? I think he can, Randy lasted 5 with Sylvia because a lot of it was Stand up and no clinching and wrestling.

So all in all, Brock by decision or late TKO.
Ricks350z
9/19/08 12:04:42AM
I cant believe there are so many people who think Couture will get beat. Or the big wrestler will win.
Randy came back to beat tim sylvia after a 1 year lay off. time off probably wont be a big deal.
Lesnar is big and fast, but even Frank Mir took care of lesnar. surely you would take couture over mir...no? And dont tell me that Lesnar is any better now. his last fight....he had no idea what to do to Herring when he got him on the floor. and he had to go 3 rounds to beat that guy.
I'll take smart over stupid anyday.
I'll take experience over strength anyday.

I'll take Couture over Lesnar anyday, all day, everyday.

Pookie
9/19/08 8:26:08AM

Posted by Ricks350z

...Or the big lump-a-dump will win...


....he had no idea what to do to Herring when he got him on the floor. and he had to go 3 rounds to beat that loser. ...
...I'll take smart over stupid anyday....




if you want anybody to take your opinion seriously, you really shouldnt bash multiple fighters in your post.
mkiv9secsupra
9/19/08 12:34:42PM

Posted by Ricks350z

Randy came back to beat tim sylvia after a 1 year lay off.
Lesnar is big and fast, but even Frank Mir took care of lesnar.




so Randy is great because he beat Tim Sylvia via UD and Mir sucks because he broke Tim Sylvia's arm in an armbar? hmmmm that makes perfect sense doesnt it?



Ricks350z
9/20/08 12:10:45AM
Pookie, you're right. I edited my post. my apologies.

9secsupra....someone said in an earlier post that couture has had too much time off. hence my comment about beating sylvia after a 1 year layoff. didnt matter that it was sylvia, thats just coincidence.
but i see your point, Mir beat sylvia worse that couture did, so mir must be better. i get it now.
atlus
9/20/08 4:20:38PM
doubtful, the fact that mir broke sylvias arm is irrelavent, mir also got tko'd by brandon vera and sylvia gave vera his first loss, so its all about someones camp and how theyre training and sure couture is a genious and his camp is top ranked but the fact is known that even though couture has carwin as his training partner, lesnar is just gonna be just too much for couture to handle, speed, power, and such a divine background in wrestling will overwealm knolledge, sure couture will have a great gameplan but once he gets taken down....you'll see see it
miphi1991
9/23/08 12:20:44PM

Posted by atlus

sure couture will have a great gameplan but once he gets taken down....you'll see see it



Thats what the said about Sylvia and Gonzaga. After those two fights I swore I'd never count out Randy Couture; the guys amazing. And I'm sticking with this despite the fact that Brock is huge and scary. I actually really like both these fighters though, but for very different reasons.
casey64
9/27/08 12:14:44PM
Looks like Brock is out due to a pulled hamstring.
casey64
9/27/08 2:10:57PM

Posted by casey64

Looks like Brock is out due to a pulled hamstring.



Never mind rumour.
Cobbs666
9/29/08 9:28:38PM
I think you guys are forgetting something... Old Man strength...I rest my case
MondayNiteMauser
9/30/08 12:25:17AM
This is fight is the official end of a great career. Randy Couture has had many battles and has been counted against many times in his career. All of that said Lesnar will dominate this fight on pure athletic ability. Honestly he's gonna make it look easy fellas. Randy's game plan will not be able to stop brock's aggressive nature and it will end a very amazing career. Once Randy is on his back and mark my words he will be, nothing will stop the monster that is lesnar. He is stronger, more athletic, faster, and a better wrestler than randy. Not to mention brock wants it more.
TheGamefather
9/30/08 9:59:15PM

Posted by fullerene

Do people who pick Lesnar think that Couture would have come out with 1 loss and 1 decision win if he had fought Mir and Herring?



If they do or they don't, most of them understand that styles make fights, and Mir may just be be the luckiest man in MMA

It's nice to see Brock hate hasn't taken over this board, lots of people seem to expect the same thing I do; a complete domination by Lesnar. I think Randy is in way over his head with Brock physically. He has the mental tools, but they won't save him against Lesnar. I do give him extra respect for takeing on the challenge though.

I also agree with the idea that Dana set this up with the sincear hope that Randy gets squashed.

lebrontheking23
10/1/08 8:34:27PM
i can't see courure ever beating him but i hope that he does. lesnar is probally going to just dominate him down for 5 straight rounds
RhythmAndStyle
10/8/08 12:00:30PM
gonna keep this short..Couture due to Lesnar inexperience..Lesnar might mual Couture for the 1st round..but Couture been there done that..so he's gonna fight a way to sub Lesnar...
jcsambo
10/8/08 2:26:11PM
couture will win!
after couture wins he will definitely leave ufc

- http://jcsambo.blogspot.com
HLONWLS
10/10/08 2:37:35PM
the only thing I disagree with jiujitsufreak on the second post of this thread, is this fight is not about who has the best chance of beating anyone. It is about who can make the most money off of Randy Couture before he sunsets his career (including Randy). I hope for Randy its also about solidifying in everyone's mind who the best heavyweight who ever stepped in the octagon really is. Unfortunately we may never know who that truly is.

total props for post #2
jiujitsufreak74
10/10/08 2:55:02PM

Posted by HLONWLS

the only thing I disagree with jiujitsufreak on the second post of this thread, is this fight is not about who has the best chance of beating anyone. It is about who can make the most money off of Randy Couture before he sunsets his career (including Randy). I hope for Randy its also about solidifying in everyone's mind who the best heavyweight who ever stepped in the octagon really is. Unfortunately we may never know who that truly is.

total props for post #2



i see what you mean, essentially the UFC is booking this fight as a cash cow not so much as for the integrity of the title. however, it just so happens to be that the man who makes the UFC the most money with this fight is also the man who has the best chance to beat Randy imho.
bjj1605
10/13/08 12:48:42PM
I stopped picking against randy after the gonzaga fight. That guy is a f**king monster too. He also has more experience and skills than Lesnar. Even if lesnar is a bad style for randy, because Broc should be the better wrestler, the size won't be as much of an issue as everyone thinks. This is not the randy that fought barnett or rizo. I see him picking broc apart on the feet. I also think he'll be in trouble early. But after randy outlasts the first cave man attack he'll be in good shape. I pick randy by UD or 4th rd TKO.
DvS
10/14/08 3:10:10PM
I see Lesnar's power being a problem, but in the end I think it will turn out like Couture/Ortiz did

Maybe we will see another spanking?
SlimboKice
10/15/08 1:03:57PM
Lesnar has the skills but his experience is a problem. GIve him a few more fights and he'll be one of the best.
MondayNiteMauser
10/16/08 7:47:51PM
This fight is not going to stay on the feet for more than a minute. thats why lesnar wins
keith-hackney1
10/17/08 3:06:29PM
I cant believe lesnar gets a title shot .. WTF ?? This ufc ranking thing gets more and more ****** up. Randy couture is America's greatest mma star. Its clear to me that dana just wants couture to complete his contract, win or loose dana couldnt care less who takes this one because he wants noguiera to wear the UFC belt. Not only that the next breed of HW's are just round the corner.

Its sad that this WWE star gets a crack at mir with one mma win behind him, loses then gets another crack at a great veteran in heath herring, and wins a decision. Fair enough, brock won the fight, but the shear size and power of this guy is such a huge disadvantage to 90% of HW's in the UFC.

Although i think Randy is the greatest UFC champ we will ever see, having not fought in over a year, i think coutures chances are very slim. Brock lesnar is no tim sylvia. He's hungary and training hard. Couture although an amazing fighter, is also against the clock, i can't see couture being able to dodge lesnars power. He was pretty solid against herring for 3 rounds, moving the way he did for 15 minutes at his size is very impressive. No way do i think he should be in the championship line up, i see brock ko'ing couture in the first two rounds. I hate to say it as i am a huge fan of randy. but thats the way i see it.
Brock will then face noguiera, after he has pummelled mir, and lose his one belt wonder to who i believe to be as the greatest mma fighter of all time ... Antonio noguiera !!!!
anomoly
10/18/08 9:26:15PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

I cant believe lesnar gets a title shot .. WTF ?? This ufc ranking thing gets more and more ****** up. Randy couture is America's greatest mma star. Its clear to me that dana just wants couture to complete his contract, win or loose dana couldnt care less who takes this one because he wants noguiera to wear the UFC belt.



brock has dominated every fight that he has been in thus far. he got caught in the Mir fight... however he was dominating that fight, he dominated Heath, just like he will dominate Coture.

I have much respect for Couture, he is a great coach and very knowledgable but his time has passed, which is fine because he's smart enough to have more than just fighting to turn too.

the only chance randy has is trying to catch him in something... or dragging it out past the 3rd round.

ps Dana is a business man... he see's the crowd and NEW eyeballs Brock is bringing to the sport... it's about those dollar signs.
haggiswashere
10/20/08 6:38:13PM

Posted by keith-hackney1

I cant believe lesnar gets a title shot .. WTF ?? This ufc ranking thing gets more and more ****** up. Randy couture is America's greatest mma star. Its clear to me that dana just wants couture to complete his contract, win or loose dana couldnt care less who takes this one because he wants noguiera to wear the UFC belt. Not only that the next breed of HW's are just round the corner.

Its sad that this WWE star gets a crack at mir with one mma win behind him, loses then gets another crack at a great veteran in heath herring, and wins a decision. Fair enough, brock won the fight, but the shear size and power of this guy is such a huge disadvantage to 90% of HW's in the UFC.

Although i think Randy is the greatest UFC champ we will ever see, having not fought in over a year, i think coutures chances are very slim. Brock lesnar is no tim sylvia. He's hungary and training hard. Couture although an amazing fighter, is also against the clock, i can't see couture being able to dodge lesnars power. He was pretty solid against herring for 3 rounds, moving the way he did for 15 minutes at his size is very impressive. No way do i think he should be in the championship line up, i see brock ko'ing couture in the first two rounds. I hate to say it as i am a huge fan of randy. but thats the way i see it.
Brock will then face noguiera, after he has pummelled mir, and lose his one belt wonder to who i believe to be as the greatest mma fighter of all time ... Antonio noguiera !!!!



im with you buddy. bet ya never thought you would here me say that jk i was upset when he got the title shot. Werdum deserved it way more.
jcsambo
10/21/08 1:22:49PM
If Lesnar wins the title and gain more experience like more striking and ground techniques. Would you think this would be a great threat to Fedor?

-
http://jcsambo.blogspot.com
jamie1014
10/22/08 10:27:36AM
IM SORRY BUT RANDY COUTURE IS NOT HEATH HERRING!!! I THINK YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. HEATH IS A BUM AND RANDY IS CLASS ACT. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT PREDICTION!!!
Shoppe
10/23/08 12:42:00PM
Heath is definitely not a bum. He started fighting around the same time as Randy, has around twice the amount of fights, has been in there against better fighters, is harder to finish and has been able to win more fight by submission, which I assume is the easiest way to beat Lesnar.

Anyways, I didn't see Lesnars inexperience being a problem against Heath, and I don't think it'll be a problem against Randy.
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