OFFICAL Pride vs UFC thread

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MondayNiteMauser
3/19/08 9:13:27AM
I feel that the UFC has the best fighters in all of the divisions except the talent rich 155 and thats not saying that they don't have the best 155 fighter because i belive that BJ Penn at 155 is a monster and will destroy anyone. It's hard though because Pride/Dream fights are more world wide marketed vs. the American brand UFC which is what I'd like to call...."The Big Leagues"
MMA
3/20/08 9:56:43AM

Posted by hippysmacker

Unfortunately this will have to be pinned again, as it never goes away.


Meh, okay. I personally don't see why everyone is so fascinated by this topic. You people need to go find a hobby or something.
CornishMMA
3/20/08 10:45:01AM


Oh well, PRIDE never die i guess, PRIDE VS UFC never die for sure!
Pookie
3/20/08 3:43:35PM
Pride wont die until our generation passes on, it will live on in the memories of the hardcore fan...
Kracker_Jap
3/20/08 8:24:34PM

Posted by MMA


Posted by hippysmacker

Unfortunately this will have to be pinned again, as it never goes away.


Meh, okay. I personally don't see why everyone is so fascinated by this topic. You people need to go find a hobby or something.



MMA has the scariest avatar I have ever seen.....

By the way UFC is better than Pride as of right now, because Pride is dead
jiujitsufreak74
3/20/08 8:38:50PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser

I feel that the UFC has the best fighters in all of the divisions except the talent rich 155 and thats not saying that they don't have the best 155 fighter because i belive that BJ Penn at 155 is a monster and will destroy anyone. It's hard though because Pride/Dream fights are more world wide marketed vs. the American brand UFC which is what I'd like to call...."The Big Leagues"



imo the UFC doesn't have 7 or 8 of the top 10 at LW. their HW division is crumbling and there are top MWs not in the UFC as well. don't get me wrong, right now the UFC is the top promotion and is my favorite, but let's not blind ourselves to the other talent the world has. save for BJ and Sherk, the UFC is missing the top LW. JZ, Aoki, Ishida, Kawajiri, Melendez, Gomi, Shaolin and Sakurai (if u consider him a LW) are all top 10 talent imo that are not in the UFC. HW is missing Fedor, Barnett, Couture, CC (yes he is still a top HW imo), Kharitonov and there are speculations that AA or Sylvia will leave. MW could add Lindland, Lawler, Misaki, Kang or Akiyama. Now again don;t get me wrong, the UFC has the best division in comparison to the other organizations (except for LW) but there is talent outside of it. as MMA fans it is important to keep our eyes open to those fighters who are not in the UFC as well.
Kracker_Jap
3/20/08 10:34:31PM
JJFreak you bring up an interesting debate

The LW division??? there has hardly been any cross over fights but if you take the so called #1 ranked lightweight GOMI

Gomi has had 4 loses 3 to fighters that have at some time fought in the UFC
Diaz, Aurelio, and BJ.... Diaz didn't hack it in the UFC and gets dropped Aurelio is 50/50 so far and BJ is a stud

My point is Gomi and BJ are probally the best in the weight class and the UFC has people that have beat Gomi not at the top in the UFC division and so in comparrison who have these Dream/Pride fighters proved themselves against other than themselves????

I know you will have an answer that is why I ask

In the end I think the UFC does have 6-7 of the top guys in the class
jiujitsufreak74
3/20/08 10:58:55PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

JJFreak you bring up an interesting debate

The LW division??? there has hardly been any cross over fights but if you take the so called #1 ranked lightweight GOMI

Gomi has had 4 loses 3 to fighters that have at some time fought in the UFC
Diaz, Aurelio, and BJ.... Diaz didn't hack it in the UFC and gets dropped Aurelio is 50/50 so far and BJ is a stud

My point is Gomi and BJ are probally the best in the weight class and the UFC has people that have beat Gomi not at the top in the UFC division and so in comparrison who have these Dream/Pride fighters proved themselves against other than themselves????

I know you will have an answer that is why I ask

In the end I think the UFC does have 6-7 of the top guys in the class



well i don't think Gomi is the best in the division at all. i believe BJ ranks among the top, then after him JZ and Aoki follow. The UFC has BJ and Sherk...after that who is there that could honestly beat JZ, Aoki, Ishida or Melendez...Edgar? Aurelio is a talented LW, Diaz never fought at LW in the UFC. Doaz's losses in the UFC come to Sherk (a top level LW who i choose not to rank b/c of the steroids), Riggs (at WW), Diego (at WW) and Karo (at WW). so Diaz's lack of success in the UFC does not play into the UFC having the better LW competition. i believe that neither Edgar, Huerta, Guida, Griffin, Florian or Joe Daddy could beat JZ, Aoki, Ishida or even Kawajiri. i would love to see the LW cross over and feature Dream vs UFC bouts because there is so much it would prove. as of now i believe that the LWs outside of the UFC are better as a whole then the LWs inside the UFC. also rules play a factor as well. different fighters thrive in different rules. elbows being a big one, soccer kicks, knees to the head, etc... can determine an outcome of a fight. the LWs in the UFC with the exception of Penn (and Sherk) have not proved enough to me. Edgar beat Griffin who is just a product of UFC hype and doesn't really have a big win over other competition, Guida is a great fighter but has a lot of losses, Huerta is still a bit unproven to me, Florian's biggest win was against Din Thomas who hurt his knee, and Joe Daddy hasn't really faced anyone in the top 10 besides BJ. but i guess until there is an event which features these cross promotional fights we can argue this until we are blue in the face. but since we can't actually see this happening i will stick with my belief that 8 of the top 10 are not in the UFC.
Kracker_Jap
3/21/08 9:57:52AM
I guess the debate is that majority of each side is truly untested... against each other if you look at it as UFCvstheworld

Not only do I disagree with Gomi being ranked #1 I disagree with the bias towards UFC fighters as a whole when it comes to LW Rankings

So I'm going to assume that the 2 fighters that the UFC has right now that you would rank are BJ and Sherk? If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta

Update JJfreak I just checked the rankings here on the playground and I think they are spot on (except for where stevenson is ranked) Check em out, I guess the fans know best
Pookie
3/31/08 12:53:01PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta



...why?
Kracker_Jap
4/5/08 6:53:29PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by Kracker_Jap

If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta



...why?



Well lets take Florian.... He has been crushing his competition and went the distance with Sherk

Now??? Why not Florian???
jiujitsufreak74
4/5/08 7:05:00PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap


Posted by Pookie


Posted by Kracker_Jap

If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta



...why?



Well lets take Florian.... He has been crushing his competition and went the distance with Sherk

Now??? Why not Florian???



he would get eaten alive by JZ, Aoki, Ishida and Kawajiri. not to mention Gomi imo.
cmill21
4/5/08 8:04:42PM
Especially if Florian fought in Dream, he coulden't use his most devastating weapon, his elbows.
Pookie
4/6/08 2:14:35AM

Posted by Kracker_Jap


Posted by Pookie


Posted by Kracker_Jap

If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta



...why?



Well lets take Florian.... He has been crushing his competition and went the distance with Sherk

Now??? Why not Florian???



Not one of those fighters other than aurelio in the past, has ever defeated someone with the calibre of say Gilbert Milendez, and hes maybe #5-6 outside the UFC.
Kracker_Jap
4/6/08 2:51:56PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by Kracker_Jap


Posted by Pookie


Posted by Kracker_Jap

If so I agree with that but would add or atleast consider

Florian
Edgar
Aurelio
Griffin
Huerta



...why?



Well lets take Florian.... He has been crushing his competition and went the distance with Sherk

Now??? Why not Florian???




Not one of those fighters other than aurelio in the past, has ever defeated someone with the calibre of say Gilbert Milendez, and hes maybe #5-6 outside the UFC.



That is my point.... I Disagree with the caliber.....

Its like comparing the American league withthe national league in baseball if they never had the 2 play against each other.....

It is more popular to think that the Jap-Dream-Pride are so much better and now in the heavier classes we have cross over fights to debate and talk over...

But that is not the case in the 155 div. (My point) I give credit to each, for having great fighters but so many people want to crap on the UFC fighters and not rank them.... I'm not saying the fighters I above mentioned would dominate or all win there fights if there were a cross over tournament but I'm pretty sure each side would have a equal amount of fighters win and in the end a UFC gut would end up on top.....



now that I have spent the time...... Put me in my place, maybe I don't understand????
jiujitsufreak74
4/6/08 3:53:11PM

Posted by Kracker_Jap

That is my point.... I Disagree with the caliber.....

Its like comparing the American league withthe national league in baseball if they never had the 2 play against each other.....

It is more popular to think that the Jap-Dream-Pride are so much better and now in the heavier classes we have cross over fights to debate and talk over...

But that is not the case in the 155 div. (My point) I give credit to each, for having great fighters but so many people want to crap on the UFC fighters and not rank them.... I'm not saying the fighters I above mentioned would dominate or all win there fights if there were a cross over tournament but I'm pretty sure each side would have a equal amount of fighters win and in the end a UFC gut would end up on top.....



now that I have spent the time...... Put me in my place, maybe I don't understand????



well i agree with your analysis. there is no sure-fire way to tell who is definitively better. it is your opinion that the UFC guys would wind up on top and it is mine and Pookie's that the Other Org LWs would come out on top. as you said it is pretty much all subjective so we can argue back and forht forever and still not have a clear answer.
Kracker_Jap
4/6/08 4:59:53PM
So smart for a sixteen year old.......

You parents must be proud
bigbubbano23
4/23/08 12:58:46AM
I'm glad eddie bravo no longer scores the rounds.
Raymundo_5446
5/6/08 2:11:29AM
Pride FC over the UFC anyday for this nuthugger.
Pookie
5/14/08 1:24:21AM
Edit - I retract a nonsensical post.
jiujitsufreak74
7/1/08 5:38:47PM

Posted by goatse

no

pride was the minor league. Thats why ufc fighters went there after they went on a ufc losing streak or the smart ones used it before they went into ufc



your logic has been outdated by bout 5 years. if what you are saying is true, then why are Anderson Silva, Rampage and Big Nog champions? and also, why is it that Dan Henderson, Wanderlei Silva, Werdum, and Soko are some of the best fighters the UFC has now? you just don't make any sense and i am just gonna throw a guess out there that you are going to reply with an ignorant post that vibrantly displays your uneducated bias.
jiujitsufreak74
7/1/08 6:07:59PM

Posted by goatse

and nog and rampage have had maybe 2 fights each in the ufc. itll catch up with em.

as far as A.Silva goes, he is a good example of how you can have a so so carreer in the minors as long as you learn mistakes before you peak in the big league



looks like i predicted right. and i think that losing to 2 Champions isn't too bad for UFC losses. not to mention both of those losses were to Pride guys. His other two UFC fights he won. Wanderlei lost a close decision to Chuck and then beat down the guy that has def3eated Chuck and Forrest. don't really see how your argument has any weight at all and i suggest you go to a different site with such limited knowledge and such a biased opinion.
RMFG_187
7/1/08 7:40:24PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by goatse

and nog and rampage have had maybe 2 fights each in the ufc. itll catch up with em.

as far as A.Silva goes, he is a good example of how you can have a so so carreer in the minors as long as you learn mistakes before you peak in the big league



looks like i predicted right. and i think that losing to 2 Champions isn't too bad for UFC losses. not to mention both of those losses were to Pride guys. His other two UFC fights he won. Wanderlei lost a close decision to Chuck and then beat down the guy that has defeated Chuck and Forrest. don't really see how your argument has any weight at all and i suggest you go to a different site with such limited knowledge and such a biased opinion.



i understand goatse is acting like an @sshole, but I think Pride fighters won't last very long in the UFC. A Silva became the "P4P Best Fighter" by running through the sports weakest division. Rampage became champ by beat 2 UFC Fighters, Chuck and Eastman. Nog fought Heath who is a Pride Fighter, and Tim who is the worst of the best in the UFC HW division.

so IMO, Page is the only "Pride Champ", and we have fighters like CC, Shogun, Soko that came from Pride at the TOP of there game, just to lose in decisive fassion. Wandy had an awesome fight with Chuck but still lost and is 1-1. Hendo is 0-2, but that is against 2 pride fighters.

I truly believe UFC produced more and better fighters, but there are exceptions such as Fedor etc.

BTW: GSP would own Silva and Forrest will own Page

EDIT: No matter what anyone tells you or what u say, this will always be an ongoing argument. look how many goddamn pages there are on this thing, and quite a few new posts too! Shows that even tho Pride is dead, people still remember and talk about the UFC vs Pride days and now its UFC vs Everyone Else.
jiujitsufreak74
7/1/08 7:47:29PM

Posted by RMFG_187

i understand goatse is acting like an @sshole, but I think Pride fighters won't last very long in the UFC. A Silva became the "P4P Best Fighter" by running through the sports weakest division. Rampage became champ by beat 2 UFC Fighters, Chuck and Eastman. Nog fought Heath who is a Pride Fighter, and Tim who is the worst of the best in the UFC HW division.

so IMO, Page is the only "Pride Champ", and we have fighters like CC, Shogun, Soko that came from Pride at the TOP of there game, just to lose in decisive fassion. Wandy had an awesome fight with Chuck but still lost and is 1-1. Hendo is 0-2, but that is against 2 pride fighters.

I truly believe UFC produced more and better fighters, but there are exceptions such as Fedor etc.

BTW: GSP would own Silva and Forrest will own Page

EDIT: No matter what anyone tells you or what u say, this will always be an ongoing argument. look how many goddamn pages there are on this thing, and quite a few new posts too! Shows that even tho Pride is dead, people still remember and talk about the UFC vs Pride days and now its UFC vs Everyone Else.



well i disagree with both GSP vs Silva and Forrest vs Rampage but anyway...

the thing is, MW isn't the weakest division, HW is. MW has a lot of talented fighters, it is just that Anderson is just on another level. LWs are in fact undebatable because there is no precedent to draw form since you can argue either side back and forth with no definitive answer and with no proof. the HW rankings right now are weak, and 2 of the top 3 are PRIDE guys. Soko lost to Machida, who isn't a "UFC" in regards to this argument. wither way arguing this is pointless, i was just upset at how retarded that troll was acting.
chrismithers
7/2/08 12:03:09AM
wait wait wait how is Pride a minor league yeah ok. look at all the fighters the ufc have now all are pride. look at our champions. Pride and some more Pride. Big nog, rampage, and silva(even though consider him more as ufc) but still look pride is taking over.

But may pride R.I.P. all others will try to beat the UFC and all others will fail and never compare up to the level as pride and the UFC
RMFG_187
7/2/08 9:54:02AM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

i was just upset at how retarded that troll was acting.



lol dun worry, i felt the same way, i had to read all his posts, and i'll bet he gets banned before he can get his avatar up.

Scott_Revels
7/6/08 5:50:55AM
You might be right.. But no one will care what you had to say now, because you didn't treat the other people with respect. Their opinions are just as important as yours.
sammyd1213
7/7/08 4:12:00PM

Posted by Scott_Revels

You might be right.. But no one will care what you had to say now, because you didn't treat the other people with respect. Their opinions are just as important as yours.



Very well said..
favrefighter4
7/10/08 11:56:19AM
My biggest problem with pride is how little media access we had to the fighters if a fighter is popular in the us its just like any other pro athlete we want to know everything about him....is he a know partier , is he a gambler, what time he goes to bed and everything else. when we dig into an athlete's life they loose the larger than life misteak that surrounds most sports. this has the reverse effect in Japan when real mma fans see what they see in pride fights but don’t have all the bull sh$$ to follow it puts a pro wrestling misteak around it an makes them seem un beatable. and don’t think that Dana white is the only crook in mma pride should have shaken nick Diaz hand and given him double his owed money for beating Gomi, while he was stoned instead Pride didn’t want there poster boy being beat buy a guy that didn’t have a place among better fighters like GSP, Matt Hughes, and BJ Penn. I have always said Chuck was better than Wandi. and that Gomi Was week but the one place I will give pride credit is the Heavy Weight division. when Cro Cop was in his prime and Nog and Fedor were there it was Great to watch some classic matchups even though I loved watching them I credit allot of the built up misteak around pride just because of that division. because everybody I don’t care who you are loves to see the best Heavy's
madchaodizzys
7/30/08 1:06:19AM
Debating UFC vs. Pride is like arguing American league vs National league. IT'S THE SAME SPORT!! Yes, there are differences, but they are two sides of the same coin. Let the fighters fight, let the fans enjoy.
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