my new workout

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danny81
8/15/07 1:48:40AM
this is what i made so far


mon
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x max chinups
3x3 min of sprints every 20 seconds for 40 yards. work up to 3x5
tues: box with trainer
weds
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
1x5 deadlift
3x3 min of sprints every 20 seconds for 40 yards. work up to 3x5
thurs box with trainer
friday
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x max pullups
3x3 min of sprints every 20 seconds for 40 yards. work up to 3x5
sat
box with trainer

i do yoga everymorning and i do dynamic stretches before each workout and static after.

should i box by myself on mon weds and fri? if so what should that look like? hows the cardio? and if u have any comments on anything i should add or remove please tell me.
Jackelope
8/15/07 2:05:31AM
You should work on changing up a few things in your workout so you're not always coming at your muscles with the same lifts/reps. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't look like you're giving your muscles enough time to rest. Ideally you should have 2 days rest on a used muscle.

Then again, I'm not sure exactly what your goals are and what kind of diet/supplements you're taking.

There's a lot of questions I could ask and criticisms I could provide but there's really not enough information here to get a good feel for what your goals are. One thing worth mentioning is that it doesn't look like you're doing much for your core muscles or fast twitch muscle fibers (sprints are one thing)

My guess would be that if you spent 2 to 3 weeks doing this workout you wouldn't be pushing yourself very hard since you're not coming at the same muscles enough times in the same workout. I.E. two or three different chest exercises in the same day.

I could go on.. but I'll let you explain your goals
fedorwins1
8/15/07 7:54:27AM
Yeah you should give your body a rest. After a few weeks you'll be burnt out and won't want to continue doing it. Also mix it up, do plyos and stuff like that.
danny81
8/15/07 2:20:43PM
my goals are to become stronger and more condiotend for mma. i do my core on days that i box. the routine im doing is mark rippetoes begginer routine.
Jackelope
8/15/07 3:01:05PM
Honestly, as young as you are you should separate the strength and conditioning for right now.

At your age there's things you have to think about considering that you're not done growing yet. Weight lifting (especially heavy) can have a serious affect on the development of your body in terms of height and stature. How tall are you? What do you weigh? Would you like to get taller or stay the same? How much do you want to weigh for MMA competition? What styles do you consider training in?

Every style has a certain body type that naturally works a little better. With hard work ethic you can overcome certain difficulties your body type may encounter with a style, but some are just naturally inclined to do better with say short arms and legs vs. long arms and legs. While you're young and if you know what you want to do you should address that. Take a look at wrestlers for example- short, stocky, strong. I can personally vouch for the fact that all of that hard work changes your body style. Up until I quit wrestling my junior year I was short and stocky. Now I'm long and lanky because I didn't stop growing until I was 21 years old. Had I kept wrestling I'd probably still be short and stocky considering withina year after I'd quit I grew 8 inches taller.

So if you want shorter and more powerful muscles you should go with the heavy lifting. If you want longer and more lean muscles you should do more plyometric type workouts and worry about your conditioning/cardio for right now. Not saying anything you do can make you grow an extra 5 inches taller or anything, but there are things you can do to mitigate how short you end up being.
mikeyc1972
8/15/07 8:32:59PM

Posted by Jackelope

Honestly, as young as you are you should separate the strength and conditioning for right now.

At your age there's things you have to think about considering that you're not done growing yet. Weight lifting (especially heavy) can have a serious affect on the development of your body in terms of height and stature. How tall are you? What do you weigh? Would you like to get taller or stay the same? How much do you want to weigh for MMA competition? What styles do you consider training in?

Every style has a certain body type that naturally works a little better. With hard work ethic you can overcome certain difficulties your body type may encounter with a style, but some are just naturally inclined to do better with say short arms and legs vs. long arms and legs. While you're young and if you know what you want to do you should address that. Take a look at wrestlers for example- short, stocky, strong. I can personally vouch for the fact that all of that hard work changes your body style. Up until I quit wrestling my junior year I was short and stocky. Now I'm long and lanky because I didn't stop growing until I was 21 years old. Had I kept wrestling I'd probably still be short and stocky considering withina year after I'd quit I grew 8 inches taller.

So if you want shorter and more powerful muscles you should go with the heavy lifting. If you want longer and more lean muscles you should do more plyometric type workouts and worry about your conditioning/cardio for right now. Not saying anything you do can make you grow an extra 5 inches taller or anything, but there are things you can do to mitigate how short you end up being.



I may be totally wrong here but isnt Danny going to be a junior in high school? I know when I was his age I spent at least an hour a day in the weight room mon-fri. Pretty much year round and this was almost 20 years ago. Although he probably has not stopped growing, I would think hes able to fully take advantage of the excess of testosterone,and can build muscle while still growing. I saw plenty of other JV footballl and wrestlers grow 6+ inches from 9th to 12th grade all the while squatting,benching,cleaning,deadlifting,all the big lifts. To discourage this kid from lifting is fooloish. I mean to say that wrestling can affect your predermined genetic bodytype is misleading at best. If you had played soccer do you think your legs would have grown longer faster? But since you wouldnt have used your arms,they would have shrunk?? Your theory just doesnt make sense to me. Danny ,follow Rippetoes it has worked for thousands of people. Ask a coach(perhaps your wrestling coach if you want to wrestle)what they would suggest. Many high schools were I live employ strength coaches. Jackalope I hate to say this but your growth wasnt stunted any by wrestling,unless you used REALLY unhealthy methods of making weight. As far as fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber,thats a genetic issue as well. It is good to utilize cardio.plyo and strength training for all around power,strength,condition and health. this is an article by Tom Venuto who developed a great program for us older folks,very insightful...
Weight Lifting For Kids?
Lifting weights is useful for growing muscle, assisting in fat loss, boosting metabolism, and increasing strength - but should young teenagers be weight lifting?

I believe the answer is yes - with appropriate education and management. Sadly most education comes from magazines touting supplements and even steroid use. The issue of childhood obesity and possible solutions must be debated - and resistance training is a piece of the puzzle.

Tom Venuto (co-author of Fit Over 40) offers these comments:

a) Competent supervision is important, especially in the early stages of weight training - especially with free weights.
b) Emphasis should be placed on proper form and good lifting
technique so children develop good habits at an early age
and get started the right way.

c) Weight lifting will not "stunt" the growth of teenagers,
that is a myth. However, extremely heavy lifting is unnecessary
and might be detrimental in pre-adolescent teens, which is
why the emphasis in young children should be on "activity"
and "exercise" and not just lifting heavy weights.

d) Children should be educated about supplements and drugs.
It's as difficult to unlearn bad info about taking pills
and powders as it is to unlearn improper exercise form.
It's also difficult to undo the conditioning young people
are getting from the magazine ads. Most bodybuilding
and fitness magazines these days are owned by supplement
companies who push products without scientific merit, and
some actually encourage steroid use. There are "How to take
steroids" columns in at least two major magazines that
any teenager can pick up at any newstand (and many more
on the web).

e) Children should be educated about nutrition and healthy
food choices. For example; cut back on processed and refined
foods, fried foods, white sugar, white flour, soft drinks,
candy, fast food and so on. Trade all that junk for natural
lean proteins like egg whites, fish and chicken, and natural
carbs like fruits, vegetables and unrefined whole grains.

f) Most of the same healthy nutrition guidelines discussed
in Fit Over 40 apply to children. However,
I don't recommend extremely restrictive diets for children or
teenagers, including low carb or bodybuilding competition diets.
Instead, I recommend increasing activity to burn off the fat
(including sports and recreational activites like biking,
hiking, etc), strength training to build muscle.



Jackelope
8/15/07 9:00:30PM

Posted by mikeyc1972


Posted by Jackelope

Honestly, as young as you are you should separate the strength and conditioning for right now.

At your age there's things you have to think about considering that you're not done growing yet. Weight lifting (especially heavy) can have a serious affect on the development of your body in terms of height and stature. How tall are you? What do you weigh? Would you like to get taller or stay the same? How much do you want to weigh for MMA competition? What styles do you consider training in?

Every style has a certain body type that naturally works a little better. With hard work ethic you can overcome certain difficulties your body type may encounter with a style, but some are just naturally inclined to do better with say short arms and legs vs. long arms and legs. While you're young and if you know what you want to do you should address that. Take a look at wrestlers for example- short, stocky, strong. I can personally vouch for the fact that all of that hard work changes your body style. Up until I quit wrestling my junior year I was short and stocky. Now I'm long and lanky because I didn't stop growing until I was 21 years old. Had I kept wrestling I'd probably still be short and stocky considering withina year after I'd quit I grew 8 inches taller.

So if you want shorter and more powerful muscles you should go with the heavy lifting. If you want longer and more lean muscles you should do more plyometric type workouts and worry about your conditioning/cardio for right now. Not saying anything you do can make you grow an extra 5 inches taller or anything, but there are things you can do to mitigate how short you end up being.



I may be totally wrong here but isnt Danny going to be a junior in high school? I know when I was his age I spent at least an hour a day in the weight room mon-fri. Pretty much year round and this was almost 20 years ago. Although he probably has not stopped growing, I would think hes able to fully take advantage of the excess of testosterone,and can build muscle while still growing. I saw plenty of other JV footballl and wrestlers grow 6+ inches from 9th to 12th grade all the while squatting,benching,cleaning,deadlifting,all the big lifts. To discourage this kid from lifting is fooloish. I mean to say that wrestling can affect your predermined genetic bodytype is misleading at best. If you had played soccer do you think your legs would have grown longer faster? But since you wouldnt have used your arms,they would have shrunk?? Your theory just doesnt make sense to me. Danny ,follow Rippetoes it has worked for thousands of people. Ask a coach(perhaps your wrestling coach if you want to wrestle)what they would suggest. Many high schools were I live employ strength coaches. Jackalope I hate to say this but your growth wasnt stunted any by wrestling,unless you used REALLY unhealthy methods of making weight. As far as fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber,thats a genetic issue as well. It is good to utilize cardio.plyo and strength training for all around power,strength,condition and health. this is an article by Tom Venuto who developed a great program for us older folks,very insightful...
Weight Lifting For Kids?
Lifting weights is useful for growing muscle, assisting in fat loss, boosting metabolism, and increasing strength - but should young teenagers be weight lifting?

I believe the answer is yes - with appropriate education and management. Sadly most education comes from magazines touting supplements and even steroid use. The issue of childhood obesity and possible solutions must be debated - and resistance training is a piece of the puzzle.

Tom Venuto (co-author of Fit Over 40) offers these comments:

a) Competent supervision is important, especially in the early stages of weight training - especially with free weights.
b) Emphasis should be placed on proper form and good lifting
technique so children develop good habits at an early age
and get started the right way.

c) Weight lifting will not "stunt" the growth of teenagers,
that is a myth. However, extremely heavy lifting is unnecessary
and might be detrimental in pre-adolescent teens, which is
why the emphasis in young children should be on "activity"
and "exercise" and not just lifting heavy weights.

d) Children should be educated about supplements and drugs.
It's as difficult to unlearn bad info about taking pills
and powders as it is to unlearn improper exercise form.
It's also difficult to undo the conditioning young people
are getting from the magazine ads. Most bodybuilding
and fitness magazines these days are owned by supplement
companies who push products without scientific merit, and
some actually encourage steroid use. There are "How to take
steroids" columns in at least two major magazines that
any teenager can pick up at any newstand (and many more
on the web).

e) Children should be educated about nutrition and healthy
food choices. For example; cut back on processed and refined
foods, fried foods, white sugar, white flour, soft drinks,
candy, fast food and so on. Trade all that junk for natural
lean proteins like egg whites, fish and chicken, and natural
carbs like fruits, vegetables and unrefined whole grains.

f) Most of the same healthy nutrition guidelines discussed
in Fit Over 40 apply to children. However,
I don't recommend extremely restrictive diets for children or
teenagers, including low carb or bodybuilding competition diets.
Instead, I recommend increasing activity to burn off the fat
(including sports and recreational activites like biking,
hiking, etc), strength training to build muscle.






I'm not saying that what you're saying is wrong at all. For the sake of my time and not posting a 400 page essay I didn't go into all of the benefits/disadvantages of lifting at a young age. I simply made a few suggestiosn and posed a few questions based on what he's written. His information that he's given us is little to none.

I lifted weights in High School, too. I can tell you for a FACT that if you're in wrestling at a high school with a competitive wrestling program you are going to be working extremely hard, your eating habits will change, and you will have to cut weight. To think that it will not have an affect on your physical make up is FOOLISH, now having him ask himself certain questions in regards to what his goals are before deciding on what kind of a lifting program to use is not foolish. Look through my post and you'll see nowhere that I told him to stay away from lifting weights. I merely posed questions in regards to what his goals are.

Since the forum rules are to post your credentials I'll just go ahead and say that I am 25 years old, I've been lifting weights since I was 15 years old, did wrestling from 13 years old until 17 years old at which point I transitioned over to martial arts (Kenpo, Wing Chun, Karate, BJJ) and have stuck with those since and also serving in the Army for 4 years competing in boxing smokers, wrestling matches, BJJ matches, BJJ instruction, and martial arts instruction. I'm an avid weight lifter and stay-in-shape guy. I've won awards and competitions in all of those styles except for BJJ since the bulk of that was in the Army where no awards are given.

So for the record and also in conclusion- To the original poster: you don't have to listen to my advice but it's always a good idea to match your goals with what you're currently doing. Wanting to build strength and conditioning is fine, but there's different types of strength and different types of conditioning. You're entering a world (MMA) that is dynamic and always changing. To narrow down what you need for that world into "strength and conditioning for MMA" is fine, but honestly it could use quite a bit of analyzing and fine tuning.

To mikeyc your post is definitely enlightening in ways to the original poster and by all means has valid points within it, but to disregard what I've mentioned as "foolish" is, in itself, foolish. Weight lifting for 1 hour a day while in high school is nowhere near in comparison to a 2-3 hour wrestling practice with another 1 hour weight lifting workout added on top of it. Working that hard can change your body composition- read that as NOT STUNT YOUR GROWTH but change your body composition. Also, many of the other points are definitely valid and good points, but I'm writing in the assumption that he does not have a trainer available to constantly supervise what he's doing. Therefore I'm providing what pointers I can.
danny81
8/16/07 8:26:37PM
alright just wondering how many days a week should i do cardio? and how many days should i do MMA?
bayonetxwork
8/16/07 9:13:06PM
not bad for starting out with, my main recommendation is add is adding plyometrics to your mon, wed, fri workouts, and skip the boxing by yourself on those days. from the look of your lifting, your doing pretty basic compound lifts which is good for fighting and working stabilizers, but your really not working as much as you should IMO, which is where the plyometrics will help out. it will help out pretty much the strength throughout your whole body, as well as helping with your cardio. final recommendation is to drop your saturday workout. from what i remember your my age, and working out like this is tough to do with the school in the way, and you should really shoot to get about 8-10 hours of sleep per night(the only way your muscles recover is through proper rest.) with all that being said, here is my revised schedule for you:

mon: squat, bench, chin ups, core plyometrics, cardio
tuesday: boxing
wednesday: squat, bench, deadlift, lower body plyometrics, cardio
thursday: boxing
friday: squat, bench, pull ups, upper body plyometrics, cardio
saturday: off
sunday: off

in a full workout system you shouldn't really combine two of the large muscles groups into one day(chest, back, upper legs), but for your intents and purposes it should be alright. hopefully some of the other guys can check this over first if you decide to take this into account, i'm no expert, but i do a lot of research and reading on these things before ever using one.
danny81
8/16/07 10:45:23PM
only box twice? kids at my gym box 6 days a week
bayonetxwork
8/17/07 9:14:10AM

Posted by danny81

only box twice? kids at my gym box 6 days a week



It's all dependent on what you plan on doing. If you're just starting 2 days is good, if you're more onto the competitive level then throw in another day or two. what I gave you was just a backbone to what I think you should be doing, feel free to change it around to make it suit your needs better(add another boxing class, grappling class, etc.) my only recommendation is still take the weekend off, and to leave workouts in the gym separate from the workouts with the trainer, or as much as possible.
Jackelope
8/17/07 3:04:43PM

Posted by danny81

alright just wondering how many days a week should i do cardio? and how many days should i do MMA?



Truth be told from what you've posted up there your cardio could be fine but here's the order in which you should do it-

You should do your sprints before your workout to get your heart rate up. Everyone's pain tolerance is different, and I think for your age THR is 194 for 90% strain. During your sprints you'd probably want to reach almost all the way up to 194, but don't work yourself until you explode. Without supervision around I'd definitely say keep it around 180 as you start to risk passing out and other forms of exhaustion depending on the weather and all of that, obviously.

After you've completed your sprints and kept your heart rate up for a good 10-20 minutes on that level you should move immediately into your weight lifting workout if it's feasible. Once you pick up the weights, don't stop. Cycle your lifts (do one exercise, move to the other that focuses on a different muscle, then move right back to the original exercise that way your muscle has 30-60 seconds to rest, but you're keeping your heart rate up) another thing you can do in between lifts is throw some kicks or punches or practice your shoot. Just make sure that throughout the course of your workout you keep your heart rate up around 60-75% of capacity (in the 140s range) Through doing this you'll have worked your cardio during your weight training session.

If you do all of that I'd say your current cardio plan is fine. You'll not hang with the likes of Sherk and some of the other cardio monsters out there but you won't be gassing first round.

Now that I should post a disclaimer on everything I post- keep in mind while reading that it is just one way to go about things and is not necessarily the be all end all of answers. If it sounds like something you'd like to do and something that would keep you entertained/matching the fitness level you want to reach then it is good, but there are many other roads that lead the same direction.

Plyometric workouts should definitely be considered and the same principle I've mentioned above can apply to plyometric exercises. There's so many advantages to them and so many top ranked fighters swear by them, so definitely take a look at a few good plyo workouts you can do. Just remember that straight heavy lifting will maximize your strength gains, plyometrics will maximize your mobility gains, and combining the two is probably your best bet for strength and mobility.
danny81
8/17/07 4:01:41PM
i have been boxing for a while so is 4-5 days enuff?
dP
8/24/07 12:43:07PM
Heres some workouts
Endurance
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1083869


Strength

Strength
danny81
8/25/07 1:32:14AM
good looks bro. tahnk
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