New (and hopefully improved) video of me hitting the bag

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Svartorm
8/13/07 1:09:49AM

Posted by fedorwins1


Posted by Svartorm

If space is a problem and you're at least a little bit handy, I can send you a design for an outdoor heavy bag rig I made. Doesn't help much when its raining, but its nice on cool days.



That would be cool, but the only problem is that I live in a development and they have stupid rules and they're very strict about stuff like that. I just use the bag in my shed when I'm bored, but when I go to class they have open space and they have plenty heavybags.



Ok, this thing wouldn't fly. It looks like a gallows.

In that case, have you considered standing heavy bags? They come with all kinds of tops to them and you can just roll the thing back in the shed when you're done with it. If you go totally balls out, you can knock them over, but if you set them up right it shouldn't be a problem.
fullerene
8/13/07 8:06:04AM

Posted by danny81

join a kickboxing gym and they will teach you not to move your hands. but really just join a kickboxing gym


I wouldn't get too hung up on this. I've taught a few junior classes and sometimes we give kids like you stricter advice than we do for the adults.
fedorwins1
8/13/07 11:30:29AM

Posted by danny81

join a kickboxing gym and they will teach you not to move your hands. but really just join a kickboxing gym



Dude you're really starting to get annoying, moving my hands a little bit isn't going to be a big problem at all. It's mostly to get them distracted and make them look at my hands and then hit them with a low kick. Seriously why are you going nazi about this? Not a big problem fighters do it all the time.
danny81
8/14/07 1:43:46AM
yes it is. when you move your hands up and down it leaves your face wide open. its clearly not going to fake anyone out. do you belong to an MMA gym?
Svartorm
8/14/07 2:55:58AM
I'm not sure what your martial background is, so I'm going to explain this in terms of science and you can apply it whatever way you want.

Fighting has a lot to do with action and reaction. A scientific truth is that action is faster than reaction. This isn't to say that any action a person makes is faster than the reaction, but it takes less time for the human mind to decide on an action than it does for the human mind to decide how to deal with said action.

For the situation at hand, you have to look at defensive stances as dealing with a reaction side of fighting, while the person you're fighting is taking the action side. Can you bring your hands or elbows in line to block in time to intercept a punch? Can you do so in such a manner that aligns the limb to correctly absorb said strike? If you can't set your limb correctly in time, will it partially absorb the blow and/or will the limb be injured? These are things to take into consideration when dealing with defensive stances.

Now lets look at our friend fedorwins1 here. You're saying he leaves himself open by moving his hands up and down. While technically he doesn't have his hands firmly in front of his face, hes not truely leaving himself open because he can clear the distance back to his face before a strike comes in.

Depending on range, the attackers strike will have to move at least four or five times the distance to target than fedorwins1 will have to move his hands to get them back into line to block. Although his attackers action will be faster, he has a lot farther to move, and fedorwins1 should have little trouble blocking if hes on the ball.

Another big factor to defensive stances is ability to go offensive. Fedorwins1 easily throws strikes without augmenting his stance, so he'll be harder to read in a fight. The problem with static stances is that unless you're exceptionally fast, its difficult to throw a strike without telegraphing it in some way. When you're moving your hands a bit, are light on the feet, moving the head, etc, it hides the body language of someone about to throw a strike.

Theres more to it, but overall I didn't see anything alarming about his striking stance, which is why I said he should concentrate on working his offense from there and see where he goes.
ac_gi
8/14/07 5:49:15AM

Posted by Svartorm

...It helps with your rhythm when striking, which in turn helps disguise when you're going to throw a strike. You've gotta have some serious fast-twitch muscle fibers to be able to go from a stand-still and fire off sharp punches successfully.


I 100% agree. If moving your hands helps you stay crisp, like him in the video, by all means move your damn hands. It's not like he was dropping his hands, they were up like they should have been.
ac_gi
8/14/07 5:53:44AM

Posted by fedorwins1

Been training for about 3 weeks and just need some constructive criticism, I was limited with space so I couldn't do a whole lot of moving. This is about a week or so after I hurt my knee also. It's so short because I used and digital camera and that's also why there isn't any sound. Also pay attention to the shirt I'm wearing .

Me hitting the bag

My awesome weedwacker is in the background too



I don't really have anything to add, but props to you for the video. Not many people have the balls to actually show their skills on a forum.

danny81, where is your video? Why don't you record yourself and show us how it's really done.
fedorwins1
8/14/07 10:26:40AM
Yes let's see a video from the master danny81.
danny81
8/14/07 2:56:15PM
my background is boxing, kickboxing, and a little bit of muy thai.
he is dropping his gaurd as one person said he wasnt. when ever your hands go lower then where they are in the gaurd its dropping your gaurd. i think cro cop is a pretty good striker right? so is jerome le banner? how often do you see them doing ridicoulous things like that? most boxers dont either. and i dont see many kickboxers do it either.
fedorwins1
8/14/07 4:52:48PM
Alright let's see a video of you to show us how it's done.
Svartorm
8/14/07 5:12:50PM
Being as you said you read the sticky thread about posting your backgrounds and neglected to do so yourself, I'm willing to bet you haven't been at this very long, so heres some advice:

The time you're wasting arguing with people is time you could be spending asking questions. Most of the guys dishing out advice on the training forum have been training longer than you've been alive, have actual fights under their belts, and have been active enough in MA to know whats going to work and whats not. You're 15 years old and, whether you like it or not, are in the same boat as fedorwins1. You're both young guys that are working on their games. You're in no position to be giving advice and arguing a point thats already been shown to be moot.

I've been training with and instructed dudes like you my whole life, and have seen them get their asses handed to them enough times to know that its not the self-proclaimed experts that are going to rule the ring, but the guys who are asking questions and working on their games now. Those are the ones that are going to beat your ass down the road because they opened themselves up to others of experience and taken the hard lessons they've learned. The less time you spend dragging your feet in MA because you think you have it right, the better off you'll be in the long run.
fullerene
8/14/07 6:18:53PM

Posted by danny81

my background is boxing, kickboxing, and a little bit of muy thai.
he is dropping his gaurd as one person said he wasnt. when ever your hands go lower then where they are in the gaurd its dropping your gaurd. i think cro cop is a pretty good striker right? so is jerome le banner? how often do you see them doing ridicoulous things like that? most boxers dont either. and i dont see many kickboxers do it either.


This would be so much more convincing if there wasn't another thread on this page where you say you're about to start your junior year of high school.

If you are really interested in being a fighter you should stop talking so much and start listening more. Regardless of your talent or work ethic, there are people on this board with a lot more experience than you offering good advice.

EDIT: Sorry I missed Svartorm's post above...consider this a +1
Mastodon2
8/14/07 7:04:55PM

Posted by danny81

my background is boxing, kickboxing, and a little bit of muy thai.
he is dropping his gaurd as one person said he wasnt. when ever your hands go lower then where they are in the gaurd its dropping your gaurd. i think cro cop is a pretty good striker right? so is jerome le banner? how often do you see them doing ridicoulous things like that? most boxers dont either. and i dont see many kickboxers do it either.



If you did "a little bit of Muay Thai", you should know that we have dozens of hand blocks to stop incoming punches, including inside and outside circle blocks, "girl puts flower behind ear" blocks, etc and all of these work best when the hands of moving a little bit, as where the punch or kick comes relative to your hands helps you decide which block to use. If you stand still, you will end up using the same blocks over an over again, and become extremely predictable. Now THAT is what a a good striker is looking to exploit.

And for the record, both Cro Cop and Le Banner circle their hands a little bit while they are fighting, espescially in K-1. If you want to namedrop K-1 fighters though, so will I; Ernesto Hoost, Remy Bonjasky, Mark Hunt and Peter Aerts all move their hands while fighting, and they are all K-1 World GP winners. I suppose they have some glaring weaknesses in their styles too huh?
danny81
8/14/07 8:41:55PM
so because i am 16 i cant have had many years of fighting? mayby not as much as you guys but i have been doing it long enuff not to waste your energy with dumb movements.

btw i dont see ernesto hoost moving his hands to much in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcT53N7eq4

if anything he moves them a tiny bit this kid in the video moves them from like his chest to the top of his head. it is way to much movement. it wastes energy, leaves you open. im not saying you should never do it. it all depends on the situation but it shouldnt be used often
fullerene
8/14/07 9:15:14PM

Posted by danny81

so because i am 16 i cant have had many years of fighting? mayby not as much as you guys but i have been doing it long enuff not to waste your energy with dumb movements.


The difference isn't in years of personal fighting or in getting instruction in the absolute best way to perform a technique. What years of visiting different schools/gyms, trying different styles and training people as well as being trained has shown is....There is no ONE best style for everyone.

No one is telling you to start moving your hands like fedorwins. Nobody said that is the exact motion that you and everyone else should emulate. You might be doing exactly what your instructor told you and it might be very effective for you. Myself and some of the other people here are pointing out that what he is doing is acceptable if he feels comfortable with it. There is a range of variability in fighting that occurs even in world-class fighters. Experience lets you see enough fighters and styles to know when someone is exhibiting a bad habit (like dropping the hands after punching) vs. using a style they feel comfortable with.
bayonetxwork
8/14/07 9:21:02PM

Posted by danny81

so because i am 16 i cant have had many years of fighting? mayby not as much as you guys but i have been doing it long enuff not to waste your energy with dumb movements.

btw i dont see ernesto hoost moving his hands to much in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcT53N7eq4

if anything he moves them a tiny bit this kid in the video moves them from like his chest to the top of his head. it is way to much movement. it wastes energy, leaves you open. im not saying you should never do it. it all depends on the situation but it shouldnt be used often



Dude, drop it seriously. Its a personal preference, but you saying stuff like a great striker will definitely exploit that, is just retarded. Why do people stand on the balls of their feet in almost any sport as a "ready" position? Its easier to move from that position than a complete flat footed stand still. Same with this. If your hands are completely still, you're blocks become slower, as well as punching, rather than having some muscles in involved in the process already active. And if you want to get completely technical, many people use small things like that to throw opponents off, bait them into throwing an overhand when the left hand is about to drop, and at the same time they shoot a takedown. Its all up to the person who's doing it, and how they will use it their advantage.

Wasting energy? Are you serious? We could start another whole thread on wasting energy, and moving your hands 3 inches is nowhere near the top of the list. You'd probably be more concerned with the guys dancing, and bobbing/weaving/etc. more than necessary as opposed to moving your hands a little bit.

And if you're seriously going to continue to argue a point like this, spend the time to find other videos, please do not just post one counterexample. Hell I could probably find a guy doing a back flip during a bout and eventually scoring a KO, and argue that doing back flips will increase your likeliness of a KO, but it doesn't mean shit because its only one example.
danny81
8/14/07 11:35:24PM
i looked at many fights i have been watching striking fights for like 12 years and rarely do i see fighters do that. and msot of the time it only hurts them. now im going to stop poosting but fedor im going to leave you with 1 piece of advice. join an MMA gym or some sort of MA gym. trining like you do now will only make you pick up bad habits like moving your hands up and down.
ac_gi
8/15/07 1:24:12AM

Posted by danny81

i looked at many fights i have been watching striking fights for like 12 years and rarely do i see fighters do that. and msot of the time it only hurts them. now im going to stop poosting but fedor im going to leave you with 1 piece of advice. join an MMA gym or some sort of MA gym. trining like you do now will only make you pick up bad habits like moving your hands up and down.



I've got to give you this much, you stick to your guns.
fedorwins1
8/15/07 7:46:40AM

Posted by danny81

i looked at many fights i have been watching striking fights for like 12 years and rarely do i see fighters do that. and msot of the time it only hurts them. now im going to stop poosting but fedor im going to leave you with 1 piece of advice. join an MMA gym or some sort of MA gym. trining like you do now will only make you pick up bad habits like moving your hands up and down.



I do go to a gym and I do train. I also like to fight at a very high paced tempo, so I always like to be moving.
bayonetxwork
8/15/07 9:35:41AM

Posted by danny81

i looked at many fights i have been watching striking fights for like 12 years and rarely do i see fighters do that. and msot of the time it only hurts them. now im going to stop poosting but fedor im going to leave you with 1 piece of advice. join an MMA gym or some sort of MA gym. trining like you do now will only make you pick up bad habits like moving your hands up and down.



Well I guess they're one in the same, right? Backflips during fights are rare, and a few posts ago you said moving you said seeing a good striker moving their hands like that during a fight is rare. As well as if you do a flip it could hurt yourself, and if you move your hands you could get caught with an overhand, also hurting yourself. and maybe before you give him his last final piece of worthless advice, you should check to find out if its worth giving, because in this case, time and time again he's talked about his new gym he joined, and I'm sure you can easily find a post on it.

You'd be surprised how I can connect the most retarded topics
fedorwins1
8/15/07 9:44:25AM

Posted by bayonetxwork


Posted by danny81

i looked at many fights i have been watching striking fights for like 12 years and rarely do i see fighters do that. and msot of the time it only hurts them. now im going to stop poosting but fedor im going to leave you with 1 piece of advice. join an MMA gym or some sort of MA gym. trining like you do now will only make you pick up bad habits like moving your hands up and down.



Well I guess they're one in the same, right? Backflips during fights are rare, and a few posts ago you said moving you said seeing a good striker moving their hands like that during a fight is rare. As well as if you do a flip it could hurt yourself, and if you move your hands you could get caught with an overhand, also hurting yourself. and maybe before you give him his last final piece of worthless advice, you should check to find out if its worth giving, because in this case, time and time again he's talked about his new gym he joined, and I'm sure you can easily find a post on it.

You'd be surprised how I can connect the most retarded topics



Yeah I say it in the first post lol.
Ultimate_fighter
8/18/07 8:45:53PM
keep ur hands up when u kick, cuz if u keep doing that, ur gonna get er' in the jaw. and don't do to many feints, but other than that, that looks good....
fedorwins1
8/20/07 5:16:42PM
I was super bored today so I made another video, this time of me shadowboxing. I know you like my sexy body j/k. Anyway any advice?

Me shadowboxing in my super small room
Jackelope
8/20/07 6:19:06PM
Okay don't take this as mean ass criticism but here are a couple of things I notice. Also I do take into consideration that you're new so I'm trying not to be too judgemental, but here goes-

Before you throw your combinations you go from doing a big ball to ball weight shift to a little tiny one where it looks like you're setting your stance up. Of course you've got to set your stance up before you throw, but I think a lot of guys would pick up on that telegraph. So you might want to work on the transition from a "ready" stance to your actual punch throwing stance. Just a slight tailoring and a little less obvious transition is all you would really need.

Also it doesn't look like you're getting full extension. Mainly you can tell by the fact that your wrist comes in at a little bit of a sideways angle when you're punching straight at the camera. Also, just take a look at your hips and notice how your punching power seems to generate mostly from your upper body. It'll take years to develop the full body use to power a punch, but just keep in mind power comes from the ground up and translates through your body. You're selling yourself short if you're just punching from the waist up. It's really too bad the camera angle won't allow us to see foot work as this plays another huge part.

I also get the feeling you'd gas quickly in the arms because you're keeping a very Phil Baroni shoulder position. My instructors used to constantly ride my ass about tensing my shoulders, so I know the feeling. Loosen em up a bit if you can. A good way to work on that is to practice flopping your arms about in a completely relaxed state. Just swing your hips and let your arms fly wherever they please. I know it sounds stupid, but that will help you grow attuned with the feeling of having relaxed shoulders. Something like tensing your muscles in the wrong positions can severely limit your striking power.

You look like you're doing, good, though. So keep it up for sure! I hope this doesn't sound too critical or anything.
fedorwins1
8/20/07 6:52:29PM
Believe it or not my arms don't get that tired. I guess it's because I've been doing it so long I've gotten used to it and have better muscle endurance in that area, but if I can get more power/speed than I'll deff. change what I'm doing. Also, after a bit, I can deff. feel my shoulders being a bit sore though. Gotta learn to not be so tense. Yeah I guess in time I will learn to use my hips better also. Thanks, I don't take it as harsh criticism, I want to get better and if I'm doing something wrong than tell me.

Although I'm not quite sure what you mean about the balls of my feet thing.
Jackelope
8/20/07 7:56:27PM
Yeah I'm sorry about the balls of the feet thing. I was trying to think of a better way to word it but unfortunately sometimes I'm better at visually demonstrating than putting things into words.

Basically what I'm trying to say about that is your stance rhythm changes right before you swing. You can see your weight settle down and your rhythm speed up as you take smaller steps and set before you swing. Watch yourself and keep that in mind and I'm sure you'll see what I'm saying. It's not a glaring error but it's a subtle one that I noticed. To be honest that is something you can address later on and it helps sometimes to not be so critical of little things but ... just so you know it is something I noticed.

The main thing I would focus on is the full extension to a snap at the end of your punches
danny81
8/21/07 12:10:39AM
work on pucnh speed. and i see that you flare ur elbosws out sometimes.
Svartorm
8/21/07 1:49:02AM
My only criticism is that at the 25 and 38 second mark, you throw a left jab and leave the arm out a bit too long. You didn't do it any other time in the vid, even with the other one-off punches, but its something to iron out. Otherwise I thought it looked good.
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