New Fight Camp Ranking System

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emfleek
7/16/08 2:56:06PM
I'm curious to see what this new ranking system entails. Must we wait until after UFN 14 or can someone give some sort of info here?*

Props to the head honchos of the Playground for constantly working to improve the site and gameplay!





* NEW FIGHT CAMP RANKING SYSTEM (from the Main Page)
Pookie
7/16/08 3:37:47PM
I didnt know there was a new fight camp ranking system... whered you hear this?
emfleek
7/16/08 3:38:58PM

Posted by Pookie

I didnt know there was a new fight camp ranking system... whered you hear this?



Link added to the original message.

It's on the main page.
juanez13
7/16/08 3:39:03PM

Posted by Pookie

I didnt know there was a new fight camp ranking system... whered you hear this?



got to member directory, than click view all fight camps and it says "New fight camp ranking system in effect as of UFC Fight Night 14: Silva vs Irvin
Stay tuned!"
CantAndleDaRiddum
7/16/08 3:43:04PM
cool,,,,,,gotta love a site thats always trying to improve
aaa9erh8er
7/16/08 3:50:19PM
i agree on that this site just gets better and better
npayant
7/16/08 5:37:42PM
Props to the site for striving to continually improve!

As for the new fight camp ranking system, I'm pretty excited about some of the possibilities! Especially for the possibility to view camp vs camp data - like "how close are we to overtaking the first place team" or "how far are we out ahead?" I know my camp was wondering these things a few times this past season.

This is what I can predict:

1. Being able to do what I just said (seeing the camp vs camp data) like they eluded to on the mainpage announcement

2. Not being able to change camps with 1-2 events left just to get a "top camp" badge

3. Not being able to recruit the really "good" players to be on your team with 1-2 events left to help you get that top camp badge

4. Making sure everyone in the camp makes ALL or most of their picks for each event (this mainly effected the LW division) - you have a 2 person team with only one guy making picks. That one guy would be doing awesome and his "team" would be near the top even though he was the only one making picks.

5. Maybe adding total points (like it is for the individuals) into the equation instead of just wins/losses - some people are really good at picking end times, etc. - I think this should be added in.

6. Showing how things are weighed out - which is more important - winning percentage or earnings??

Any other ideas on improvements??

juanez13
7/16/08 6:02:30PM

Posted by npayant
5. Maybe adding total points (like it is for the individuals) into the equation instead of just wins/losses - some people are really good at picking end times, etc. - I think this should be added in.



I'm pretty sure points do count, i've seen some people say that. Can anyone confirm this?

also agree with the rest of you suggestions
Svartorm
7/16/08 7:54:48PM
I'm not involved in the math and programming around here, but I'll just hit on npayants number 4. If your "team" is just one person and several inactive members, those inactive members will be removed from your team after 90 days. This isn't an issue in the Middles, Light Heavies and whatnot, but Light and Welterweight teams need to monitor their players and make sure they make picks, or you might find yourself out of your weight class or have your team disappear from under you. I sent out warnings on this last season and will do so this season as well.
Rush
7/16/08 8:30:50PM
What are the member numbers for the camp rankings? We have 4 active members and 10 inactive members and I'm talking about inactive since season 1. Our camp leader will not kick them out.


Maybe I should just ban them.... lol just kidding.
Svartorm
7/16/08 9:20:40PM
2-4 for LW
5-8 for WW (I think) and then it goes from there.

I'm lazy and only do the top ten teams for the weightclasses, as it doesn't effect much if your team doesn't do so well, but if you're in badge contention I don't want a team getting robbed of a badge by a one or two man team.
wolfman
7/16/08 10:32:42PM

Posted by Rush

What are the member numbers for the camp rankings? We have 4 active members and 10 inactive members and I'm talking about inactive since season 1. Our camp leader will not kick them out.


Maybe I should just ban them.... lol just kidding.



Might as well just ban them, you said they've been inactive since season one right? So, they're pretty much gone anyways. j/k
Rush
7/16/08 10:42:57PM
A couple of them have 0-0 career records.


Not that it matters we're not in badge contention anyways. I'm trying to get an intracamp discussion going, but my guys are only on the day before an even to make picks and one of them doesn't even want to discuss his picks.

All in all I feel like I am competing against them or something.
juanez13
7/16/08 10:53:26PM
Switch camps man.
postman
7/16/08 11:50:40PM
I think when someone leaves a camp mid season any wins and losses and points they gained for that season should stay with the old camp. This might be the way it is but Im not sure.
emfleek
7/17/08 8:53:46AM
There should be some sort of penalty involved for cherry picking.
Rush
7/17/08 10:33:19AM

Posted by juanez13

Switch camps man.




I would,b ut I know these guys personally so I kind of feel I'd be dumping them. You know what I mean?


Besides, I don' think there are too many camps that would want my crappy record. lol
DCRage
7/17/08 11:00:07AM

Posted by emfleek

There should be some sort of penalty involved for cherry picking.


Maybe if there was a way to set up the system so that picks are only applied to a cumulative record if ALL the fights on a card had picks made for them and not just one or two. For example, Saturday's event-there are 11 fights to pick on. If you pick all 11 the records apply to the overall ttoals. But if you only pick 1, 2, 3, or fewer than 11, they don't apply. I know this'll be tougher to get over with the bigger camps (especially the Super Heavies, the bigger camps have 50-100 more members than the smaller ones), but at least it's a start.
juanez13
7/17/08 2:57:17PM
on the note of Cherry picking IMO this is how they should do it.

Any fight that you dont pick a winner, is counted as a loss. (wrong pick)

so say there is 11 fight and you pick 9, the three that you didnt pick count as a loss in your record.

i'd say thats the best way to put it.
emfleek
7/17/08 3:00:43PM
RE: Cherry Picking

I don't mean when it comes to picking fights. I mean when it comes to picking members to join your camp. Certain camps have been accused of dumping the weak link(s) after an event and replacing them with someone that has a better record, just to maintain high numbers and to maintain (or improve) their ranking in the fight camp division.

In my opinion, that's cherry picking and it's pretty shady business.
emfleek
7/17/08 3:01:30PM
BUT...I do agree with juanez13.


Posted by juanez13

on the note of Cherry picking IMO this is how they should do it.

Any fight that you dont pick a winner, is counted as a loss. (wrong pick)

so say there is 11 fight and you pick 9, the three that you didnt pick count as a loss in your record.

i'd say thats the best way to put it.

Aaronno9
7/17/08 3:11:04PM

Posted by juanez13

on the note of Cherry picking IMO this is how they should do it.

Any fight that you dont pick a winner, is counted as a loss. (wrong pick)

so say there is 11 fight and you pick 9, the three that you didnt pick count as a loss in your record.

i'd say thats the best way to put it.







I think it would be pretty annoying though if a fight got added last minute and people ended up with losses on their records becouse they didnt no about a fight or have time to make a pick. I agree with the principle though, its a good idea. As far as cherry picking goes, i think a good idea would be to have unlimited replacements during the gaps between seasons, then mabeys a limit depending on divisions per event. So mabeys the SHW division could remove or add up to 12 ppl, HW 10, LHW 6, MW 4 and WW 2.

Then if you want somebody removed due to not making picks you could ask a mod to replace them for you as long as you can prove they made no picks. Might be hard to implement but its the best idea i can come up with.
Pookie
7/17/08 4:13:35PM
Something i would like changed, is the ability to dump members during an event... i dont like this rule, as well as after the final event of the season, the team stats should be frozen... that way no teams can cheat anytime after an event starts to make themselves a little bit better than another team and edge out a badge.
DoTheMMAth
7/17/08 5:56:09PM

Posted by juanez13

on the note of Cherry picking IMO this is how they should do it.

Any fight that you dont pick a winner, is counted as a loss. (wrong pick)

so say there is 11 fight and you pick 9, the three that you didnt pick count as a loss in your record.

i'd say thats the best way to put it.



The three criteria being used for ranking a camp's performance are overall camp pick percentage for an event (which benefits cherry pickers), average camp member earnings for an event, and average camp member point score for an event (which hurts cherry pickers). Being that percentage helps pickers and points hurts pickers, there is zero advantage to only picking the easy to predict fights as they will be shooting themselves in the foot for the points averages.


Posted by Pookie

Something i would like changed, is the ability to dump members during an event... i dont like this rule, as well as after the final event of the season, the team stats should be frozen... that way no teams can cheat anytime after an event starts to make themselves a little bit better than another team and edge out a badge.



Camp rosters will be locked for 48 hours after an event lockout has taken place. This means that no camp invites may be accepted, no booting of camp members may be done, and no quitting a camp for the first 48 hours after an event locks out. This is to ensure that there is enough time for the statistics to be calculated and any potential errors corrected without having folks abandon ship.



Locking a camp's roster at the first event of the season was recommended by many, however this would hurt the user experience of people who are new to the site and/or people who have been recently invited to the site by friends, workmates, or family. One other important note is this: If a member does not participate in an event at all, this does not benefit or harm a team whatsoever. Your camp weight class will be determined by the average number of members who participated (placed at least 1 wager or picked at least 1 fight) in each event throughout the course of the season.

1 side point: As mentioned in the blog, the effects of dropping and recruiting members will be lessened. For example, if you are in a camp A for UFC 87, then switch to camp B before UFC 88, your performance for UFC 87 sticks with camp A. This makes folks that have high bankrolls either very valuable or very dangerous, especially for smaller camps. Recruiting a new member that has a high bankroll could be a HUGE help or a HUGE setback in 1 of the 3 ranking criteria (average member earnings per event) as their potential earnings loss/gain is big.

There will be a new data screen that displays the members of a camp present for each event and their performance for that event so that things will be more easily understood.

It should also be noted that we are working on programming to assign top camp badges at the time of reception instead of being based on the camp you are currently in. We got several emails on this topic and are working to improve things. That's what I get for taking programming shortcuts Hopefully this improved ranking criteria will be some "Redemption" ;-)

Please bear in mind the fact that the camp ranking something was something added as somewhat of an afterthought. As such, the initial ranking system was literally nothing more than a quick way to put a number rank column next to camps on the fight camp directory page. We are grateful for all the good feedback we've gotten from users on improving things and making it more of a sitewide focal point. Thanks a ton for all the perspectives and suggestions!

I am lacking sleep and feeling like I have come down with a case of the down syndrome lately, so if any of this isn't worded clearly or doesn't make sense feel free to give me a leg kick or two to wake me up.
emfleek
7/17/08 11:07:37PM
Thanks for the explanation!
DoTheMMAth
7/18/08 3:56:11PM

Posted by DoTheMMAth

It should also be noted that we are working on programming to assign top camp badges at the time of reception instead of being based on the camp you are currently in. We got several emails on this topic and are working to improve things. That's what I get for taking programming shortcuts Hopefully this improved ranking criteria will be some "Redemption" ;-)



Just a quicky FYI, this item has also been wrapped up.
DonnieDarko
7/19/08 12:24:30PM
sounds look some sweet improvements thanks and keep up the good work
emfleek
7/20/08 12:49:22PM
Any updates on when we'll be able to view the new rankings?
juanez13
7/20/08 3:05:41PM

Posted by emfleek

Any updates on when we'll be able to view the new rankings?



yea i thought it'd be done after UFN 14, i dont think/hope it wont take long. it'd be interesting to see where we are at, and how the teams that moved up to LHW this season are doing.
emfleek
7/21/08 9:07:55AM
Rankings are up.

A bit confusing, too. It's going to take some getting used to.
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