Nate Diaz... WOW!!!!

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koopa
4/3/08 1:17:01AM
Well since diaz isn't on florian's level, I thought maybe you thought Nate should fight Wayne Weems.... You know who Wayne Weems is don't you? Johnny Ironsides or whatever the fu*k. I'll agree that a manny rematch would be ok. And I never implied that you thought lauzon deserved the fight. I guess my point was that, without official rankings, fights are booked on perceived excitement (styles make fights) and I think Nate vs Kenny would be rock em sock em.
gartface
4/3/08 1:30:01AM

Posted by koopa

Well since diaz isn't on florian's level, I thought maybe you thought Nate should fight Wayne Weems.... You know who Wayne Weems is don't you? Johnny Ironsides or whatever the fu*k. I'll agree that a manny rematch would be ok. And I never implied that you thought lauzon deserved the fight. I guess my point was that, without official rankings, fights are booked on perceived excitement (styles make fights) and I think Nate vs Kenny would be rock em sock em.



I see that, and I think it would be a terrible match up for Nate this early in his career. Florian is probably better at JJ and has good muay thai, and need I mention the elbows?
Kpro
4/3/08 4:40:38AM
To reply to multiple posts above; someone only needs to "deserve" to fight someone if it is for a title.

This is not hard to understand. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Pookie
4/3/08 5:40:15AM

Posted by gartface


Posted by koopa

Nate vs Kenny.... Make it happen Silva! Probably will be Nate and Lauzon next though....



What has Nate done to deserve to fight Kenny Florian?



What has Florian done in his career?

Beat Din thomas when he blew his knee out...
Got dominated by sherk...
Beat Lauzon (who didnt do as good as nate on the show)
Beat Robinson (who Nate also beat)
Beat Stout

Diaz has beat
Gamburyan
Robinson
Pellegrino
and dominated France before getting caught in a sub.


Compare the two records of the fighters and you'll see that Nate Diaz actually has a more accomplished record then Florian

Pookie
4/3/08 5:45:11AM

Posted by gartface

I see that, and I think it would be a terrible match up for Nate this early in his career. Florian is probably better at JJ and has good muay thai, and need I mention the elbows?



I couldnt Disagree more

Diaz is by far the better Bjj fighter In my mind, and has the better hands. Florian's Muay Thai is really exaggerrated by pretty much everyone IMO. Ive been doing MT for a few years and i can clearly see he telegraphs his kicks, and in no way are his hands better than Nates.
skatenate
4/3/08 6:06:01AM
i think he knew he was gonna win to, flippin off the crowd like that, he was so effin psyched!
waylon_o
4/3/08 8:52:48AM
It would have been hilarious if he woulda lost after flexing and flipping the double bird lol
emfleek
4/3/08 9:40:46AM

Posted by waylon_o

It would have been hilarious if he woulda lost after flexing and flipping the double bird lol



Yes, it would have.

BUT...I think it's even funnier that he won. Especially after Pellegrino was laughing at Nate's attempt at an armbar in the 1st round.

Nate's quickly becoming one of my favorite fighters.
Franklinfan47
4/3/08 9:57:01AM
To me, beating Pellegrino so decisively puts Diaz as one of the top of the division. Can't wait to see who he fights next.
Rush
4/3/08 10:14:29AM

Posted by Pookie

What has Florian done in his career?

Beat Din thomas when he blew his knee out...
Got dominated by sherk... dominated, but Kenny hung in for the UD loss
Beat Lauzon (who didnt do as good as nate on the show)
Beat Robinson (who Nate also beat)
Beat Stout
Beat Mishima
Beat Cope
Beat Karelexis
Loss to Diego


Diaz has beat
Gamburyan Who was winning the fight until his shoulder blew out
Robinson
Pellegrino
Assunção
and dominated Franca before getting caught in a sub.


Compare the two records of the fighters and you'll see that Nate Diaz actually has a more accomplished record then Florian




I don't know man, I have to say that this looks a little biased to me. I've added a few points in bold. Now, I don't like Kenny Florian, but he looked good last night (I missed the Diaz fight so I cannot comment on that)

So, if you want to compare wins and losses between the two:
-Wins against Din and Manny can cancel each other because they ended due to injury
-They both beat Robinson so that cancels
-Florian has one more loss in the UFC, but he also has 3 more wins (has more fights total too) All their losses are to upper tier fighters

In the end I'd say Florian is "ahead" of Nate, but right now it's because he's been in the UFC longer. Nate needs to fight another gatekeeper to see if he is really ready to fight top ten guys. I wouldn't argue if the UFC gave him a top ten guy though.

Kenny needs to fight another top ten guy. Din was the only one close to top ten other than Sherk and that the fight with Din did not end in a way fair to judge their abilities.
koopa
4/3/08 10:29:40AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by Pookie

What has Florian done in his career?

Beat Din thomas when he blew his knee out...
Got dominated by sherk... dominated, but Kenny hung in for the UD loss
Beat Lauzon (who didnt do as good as nate on the show)
Beat Robinson (who Nate also beat)
Beat Stout
Beat Mishima
Beat Cope
Beat Karelexis
Loss to Diego


Diaz has beat
Gamburyan Who was winning the fight until his shoulder blew out
Robinson
Pellegrino
Assunção
and dominated Franca before getting caught in a sub.


Compare the two records of the fighters and you'll see that Nate Diaz actually has a more accomplished record then Florian




I don't know man, I have to say that this looks a little biased to me. I've added a few points in bold. Now, I don't like Kenny Florian, but he looked good last night (I missed the Diaz fight so I cannot comment on that)

So, if you want to compare wins and losses between the two:
-Wins against Din and Manny can cancel each other because they ended due to injury
-They both beat Robinson so that cancels
-Florian has one more loss in the UFC, but he also has 3 more wins (has more fights total too) All their losses are to upper tier fighters
-Florian finished an improved Joe Lauzon, but Nate couldn't finish Joe on the show.

In the end I'd say Florian is "ahead" of Nate, but right now it's because he's been in the UFC longer. Nate needs to fight another gatekeeper to see if he is really ready to fight top ten guys. I wouldn't argue if the UFC gave him a top ten guy though.

Kenny needs to fight another top ten guy. Din was the only one close to top ten other than Sherk and that fight did not end in a way fair to judge their abilities.



If you want to get so technical, Nate never fought Joe on the show. Also, how could the Sherk-Florian fight NOT end in a way to judge their abilities? I mean, it went 5 rounds.... How much more time can you have in a fight? And by your logic, if some bad ass came into the ufc, he would be "behind" someone who has been there longer.... Really? If Gomi came over, florian would be ahead of him? How about Fedor? Would he be behind Eddie Sanchez?
koopa
4/3/08 10:33:43AM
Oops, sorry... After rereading your post, I see that you meant the din fight, not sherk fight. My fault.
Rush
4/3/08 10:37:34AM

Posted by koopa

If you want to get so technical, Nate never fought Joe on the show. Also, how could the Sherk-Florian fight NOT end in a way to judge their abilities? I mean, it went 5 rounds.... How much more time can you have in a fight? And by your logic, if some bad ass came into the ufc, he would be "behind" someone who has been there longer.... Really? If Gomi came over, florian would be ahead of him? How about Fedor? Would he be behind Eddie Sanchez?




Sorry, my mistake that Nate and Joe fought. I must have mistook one of them for Cory.

The wording was bad, I meant that Din-Florian fight. I have changed that so it meant what I meant it to say.

And please do not criticize my logic using Gomi or Fedor (both of whom have extensive experience in an organiztion on par with the UFC). What I am talking about is fights in bush leagues do not carry much weight when comparing fighter rankings. Just ask Jason Reinhardt
koopa
4/3/08 10:46:26AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by koopa

If you want to get so technical, Nate never fought Joe on the show. Also, how could the Sherk-Florian fight NOT end in a way to judge their abilities? I mean, it went 5 rounds.... How much more time can you have in a fight? And by your logic, if some bad ass came into the ufc, he would be "behind" someone who has been there longer.... Really? If Gomi came over, florian would be ahead of him? How about Fedor? Would he be behind Eddie Sanchez?




Sorry, my mistake that Nate and Joe fought. I must have mistook one of them for Cory.

The wording was bad, I meant that Din-Florian fight. I have changed that so it meant what I meant it to say.

And please do not criticize my logic using Gomi or Fedor (both of whom have extensive experience in an organiztion on par with the UFC). What I am talking about is fights in bush leagues do not carry much weight when comparing fighter rankings. Just ask Jason Reinhardt



Not everyone can start in the UFC. I mean you have to do well in bush league shows to get into the ufc. Now, that's not to say that everyone in the ufc is good. I think that Kenny has made a name for himself by beating up chumps.... My point in all this is, you contradict yourself by saying Gomi and Fedor are bad examples bc of their extensive experience, but you put Kenny ahead of Nate due to experience, when you said yourself that Kenny hasn't really fought anyone other than an ass whipping by Sherk.
CantAndleDaRiddum
4/3/08 10:53:31AM
most impressive
Rush
4/3/08 11:01:22AM

Posted by koopa

Not everyone can start in the UFC. I mean you have to do well in bush league shows to get into the ufc. Now, that's not to say that everyone in the ufc is good. I think that Kenny has made a name for himself by beating up chumps.... My point in all this is, you contradict yourself by saying Gomi and Fedor are bad examples bc of their extensive experience, but you put Kenny ahead of Nate due to experience, when you said yourself that Kenny hasn't really fought anyone other than an ass whipping by Sherk.



Yes, I said Kenny is ahead of Diaz, but I didn't say he was ready for a title shot. In fact, I didn't think he was ready the first time he fought Sherk. I thought of it as another TUF fast track to a title shot for TUF publicity.

I don't think I contradicted myself at all. I said Gomi and Fedor have extensive experience in an organization on par with the UFC Also, you don't have to do well in the bush leagues to get into the UFC. Ever hear of this show called TUF? Some of those guys on the show only had a couple fights (some none) coming on to the show.

What I was trying to say in my top post and I thought I made it as clear as I could without actually saying it like this:

Kenny and Diaz have similar wins in the UFC. Kenny has one more loss than Diaz* (all to top tier guys), but Kenny has more wins than Diaz. I said Kenny was ahead of Diaz because he is there longer, not because I think one is necessarily better than the other. It's just that Kenny's longer time with the UFC has given him the opportunity to fight more and he has won those fights. If Kenny still fights top 10-20 guys and Nate beats a top ten guy then I'll change my assessment, but until then my opinion stands.



*I counted the Franca loss in my assessment of Diaz because it was not that long ago and was flanked by UFC fights.
koopa
4/3/08 11:12:21AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by koopa

Not everyone can start in the UFC. I mean you have to do well in bush league shows to get into the ufc. Now, that's not to say that everyone in the ufc is good. I think that Kenny has made a name for himself by beating up chumps.... My point in all this is, you contradict yourself by saying Gomi and Fedor are bad examples bc of their extensive experience, but you put Kenny ahead of Nate due to experience, when you said yourself that Kenny hasn't really fought anyone other than an ass whipping by Sherk.



Yes, I said Kenny is ahead of Diaz, but I didn't say he was ready for a title shot. In fact, I didn't think he was ready the first time he fought Sherk. I thought of it as another TUF fast track to a title shot for TUF publicity.

I don't think I contradicted myself at all. I said Gomi and Fedor have extensive experience in an organization on par with the UFC Also, you don't have to do well in the bush leagues to get into the UFC. Ever hear of this show called TUF? Some of those guys on the show only had a couple fights (some none) coming on to the show.

What I was trying to say in my top post and I thought I made it as clear as I could without actually saying it like this:

Kenny and Diaz have similar wins in the UFC. Kenny has one more loss than Diaz* (all to top tier guys), but Kenny has more wins than Diaz. I said Kenny was ahead of Diaz because he is there longer, not because I think one is necessarily better than the other. It's just that Kenny's longer time with the UFC has given him the opportunity to fight more and he has won those fights. If Kenny still fights top 10-20 guys and Nate beats a top ten guy then I'll change my assessment, but until then my opinion stands.



*I counted the Franca loss in my assessment of Diaz because it was not that long ago and was flanked by UFC fights.



If you're gonna count a win over Kit fu*king Cope as more experience or another win, then maybe you should back away from the computer and take a long nap. And to say that someone should be ranked higher based on experience and "not necessarily being better" than another guy is rediculous. I guess, then, you'd have to put Serra ahead of GSP??
SDT
4/3/08 1:37:04PM
Nate Diaz seems to get better every time he fights.
fedorwins1
4/3/08 3:43:05PM
I must admit I was worried there for a few seconds when Nate was in the crucifix position and even at one point thought it was all over for Nate. I'm not going to lie it looked like Nate was out in the crucifix position, but he still overcame it and won by an awesome triangle finish while flippin the birds
AchillesHeel
4/3/08 3:47:27PM

Posted by fedorwins1

I must admit I was worried there for a few seconds when Nate was in the crucifix position and even at one point thought it was all over for Nate. I'm not going to lie it looked like Nate was out in the crucifix position, but he still overcame it and won by an awesome triangle finish while flippin the birds


Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. Like a miniature Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Except for the flipping the bird part.
Rush
4/3/08 4:15:44PM

Posted by koopa

If you're gonna count a win over Kit fu*king Cope as more experience or another win, then maybe you should back away from the computer and take a long nap. And to say that someone should be ranked higher based on experience and "not necessarily being better" than another guy is rediculous. I guess, then, you'd have to put Serra ahead of GSP??



Maybe you should take a nap and read things more carefully. When significant wins and losses are about equal, the two fighters haven't fought, most/all of their wins are convincing finishes, overall big league experience (i.e. the number of big event fights they have under their belt) plays a part in distinguishing who is the "higher ranked" fighter.


Also, your attempt at trying to make a point with Serra and GSP is moot. I have already gone through by detail and compared Fitch and GSP (you can search for the thread if you want) to compare and contrast their respective UFC careers, but I don't even have to do a detailed comparison between GSP and Serra to know that GSP has faced (and beat) tougher competition, has a better record (inside and outside the UFC) and even has more fights in the UFC..... I ask again, what is the point you are trying to make because I just don't see it.
whardin19
4/3/08 6:03:01PM
Nate Diaz showed tonight why he is one of my favorite fighters. When he sank that triangle in I was jumping up and down. I'm not gonna lie I was worried after that first round. But he came out way stronger in the second round where some people would have folded after getting beat up like that.
jgtribbett
4/3/08 6:14:10PM
anyone know where i can find a vid of pellegrino and diaz?
Mchubb316
4/3/08 6:20:23PM
Diaz showed a lot of heart and toughness. I look forward to seeing him against tougher and tougher opposition.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
4/3/08 9:38:36PM
the dude is a soldier. hes always pulling off slick jits. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR DIAZ!
JBatch
4/5/08 1:04:26PM
I say through Nate in against a T. Griffin, Guida or Huerta.
tylerlee123
4/6/08 2:12:01PM
Man Diaz is a Warrior I cant belive he survived those shots, he's getting better every tme we see him
JBatch
4/6/08 7:16:51PM
There seems to be a lot of debate about how good Nate is on here.

As for comparing who is ahead at this time in their career Ken-Flo or Nate it is Ken-Flo IMO because he is older and had more fights in the organization. Who has more potential and a better skill set well that has got to be Nate Diaz.

Nate is an animal, he calls out UFC matchmaker Joe Silva for better comp and then weathers a beating in the first round to secure the triangle throws his hands up then flips the bird flexes and then makes him submit. That my friends is entertainment.

In case ppl haven't read it yet Nate is calling out Tyson Griffin now. That would be a great fight, yet I would rather see him fight Huerta. Any fighter in the UFC LW division is in trouble because Nate trains with better partners than almost all the UFC LW division except BJ Penn.

pinoymixplaya
4/6/08 10:58:51PM
naw Florian must fight Huerta, that needs to happen.

Griffin will maul Diaz, hopefully. I see him controlling Nate but who knows, someone as crafty as Diaz, wouldn't be surprised if he got a submission victory. But I think the most tools to win would be with Tyson.

That fight would be awesome though
Lay_N_Pray
4/7/08 3:35:54PM
I love Diaz for his jujitsu as much as all of you do, but the fact is he has put himself in losing situations on more than one occasion.

I thought he was in such bad shape in the first round during that crucifix position that it could have potentially been stopped right there with little controversy if any cause his face was getting mauled.

Gamburyan had him beat in a bad way and hurt his shoulder. I think Diaz is tremendous but I can't pick him over Kenflo, Stevenson or guys like that.

Maybe it's just his style to make comebacks, but it's hard to be confident that he will be able to pull those out all the time. He is very exciting and brings tremendous jujitsu though.
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