mmap: zombie survival thread

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mikevolz
10/30/09 4:20:08PM
Ok, here we will debate what items to have to survive the zombie apocalypse. I will update the thread with agreed upon items.

Things to remember. Lets say the spread of the disease is equivalent to HIV. a drop of blood or spit won't automatically give it to you, but you're not going to risk it. and sex with zombies is out of the questions. you have to survive for an unknown time period and you don't know how long you'll have to survive.

lets say you live in a suburban area with a city a few miles out.

you're planning to hold up for the time being, so you are mobile in certain times but come back to a home base.

what do you bring with you? or have?


Bomb making equipment and guides - the oft overlooked, boobie traps and explosives. homemade would be the best option.


Survival Knife - cause you just need to cut stuff up sometimes.

Shotgun - seems to be the gun of choice, it seems like an emergency close range situation.

water purification tablets - to purify your drink

a companion - i hear dogs. lets face it you're the only one alive you need a volleyball with a hand on it to talk to.



melee weapons are good, but you'd need a sturdy suit to be able to handle the blood spray. i bounced and refused to touch homeless people because of the diseases, if you think im hitting a zombie without a mask and suit of some sort on, you're out of your mind. what is your ideal protection gear?

Jackelope
10/30/09 6:34:02PM
I've been trained by the military for survival, so I'll weigh in a bit.

In any survival situation, no matter what it is, an absolute must is a blade of some sort. Preferably something very short, sturdy, and sharp. This can be used for every little thing you can imagine. I'll offer up my recommendation of one of the greatest knives you will ever own should you choose to buy one -



AchillesHeel
10/30/09 6:43:26PM
Anyone here ever try water purification tablets? I've heard they make the water taste bad, but I wonder how well they work. I figure in any survival scenario, zombie or otherwise, utilities might be threatened, and rain water and river water in most areas isn't potable.

I also think a good hatchet that you can swing hard with one hand would have a variety of uses.

Also, why are we assuming we live in the suburbs? Why can't we assume that we live where we live? I'd think that someone living in an urban area - such as myself - would be in a worse spot than someone in a rural area.
Jackelope
10/30/09 6:48:18PM
Achilles, I've had the water purification tablet water. It tastes slightly different, but nothing major. Not that I want to get deeply into the biology here, but if the virus spreads similar to HIV you shouldn't have too many fresh water issues assuming you live near fresh water
bojangalz
10/30/09 9:19:42PM
Hatchet ya say? I've always had an eye on this puppy:

jae_1833
10/30/09 9:35:10PM
tablets suck...just boil the water
that thing above is probably just way overpriced

1. Bunson burner....I gotta eat
2. AK-47....nough said
3. ammo....lots!
4. Machette
5. any good 4x4 (not an open JEEP)
6. good set of Craftman's tools
7. maps, the more the merrier
8. matches by the buttload
9. Carhartt clothing and boots (thick to protect against cold and bites)
10. hand grenades (because I love them!)
Rush
10/30/09 10:19:01PM
Put me down for some barbed wire, shovels, a flame thrower and a reliable dog.
higdon10
10/30/09 10:53:53PM

Posted by Rush

and a reliable dog.



A reliable dog is a must.
breakdown5
10/30/09 10:59:23PM
1. Shotguns and ammo (lots and lots of ammo). Maybe a couple rifles for more accurate shots at a distance. Whatever it is, should be something with a serious kick.



Aim for the head and watch it pop like a dropped melon. Nuff said.

2. Chainsaw (maybe two) for all slicing, hacking, dismembering needs.

3. Car. My suggestion would be to steal someone's hummer or something just in case the highways are crawling with undead.

4. Food, preferably canned goods with a long shelf life. Head to the grocery store and take what you need at the first sign of zombie apocalypse. DO NOT HESITATE.

5. Batteries and lots of them.

6. Two way radios for communication needs once the infrastructure of the world collapses.

7. Fuel. It will be like Road Warrior very shortly. Probably a good idea to get other automotive needs as well. A well maintained vehicle will run for decades.

8. Various seeds for maintaining a fruit and vegetable garden. Pick whatever grows well depending on your seasonal situation.

9. Some surveillance equipment would be good as well.

THE PLAN: Head to the family camp way upstate NY. Acres of trees for firewood, plenty of wildlife to live off of, fresh water right outside the door. Secure all access points to the property. Use chainsaws to cut down trees and make a barricade around perimeter. Live in paranoid, isolated fear for the rest of life.

EDIT: The other thing to worry about aside from the zombie hordes is the other pockets of survivors left. TRUST NO ONE. They all want what you had the foresight to get. Shoot first, ask questions later.
Aaronno9
10/30/09 11:05:36PM
A Katana for close range defence. Best way to takedown a zombie and make sure he aint getting back up would be a nice clean slice, removing head from body. For a long range weapon id go with a crossbow. I mean, your going to be held up in your safehouse for quite a while, so you'll have lots of time to practise firing it and increasing your head shot proficencey. A silenced pistol would be ideal, but I assume silencers would be tricky to come across. Some kind of scoped rifle would also be nice, perfect for popping heads and surveillance.

A rope ladder would also be very usefull. If I couldnt get to a place thats already well fortified, id just smash the staircase out of my house and make the only entry point via ladder through an upstairs window.

Then the obvious stuff, long life food, bottled water, as much fuel as you can safely take/store, warm clothes(unless you want to risk making smoke with a fire or noise with a generator) a nice suv for supply runs into the city and a group of 4-5 fit people.

Eventually id be looking to get into the country side, hopefully to an abandoned wearhouse or army base.
Aaronno9
10/30/09 11:09:23PM
Shotguns and chainsaws would be a huge no no in my book, unless I had no other option. The noise they make would attract hordes of the undead, not to mention the fact your going to be splatting blood and **** everywhere, any of it gets in a open wound or your mouth, the only thing your shotguns good for is taking your own head off.
breakdown5
10/31/09 10:45:29AM

Posted by Aaronno9

Shotguns and chainsaws would be a huge no no in my book, unless I had no other option. The noise they make would attract hordes of the undead, not to mention the fact your going to be splatting blood and **** everywhere, any of it gets in a open wound or your mouth, the only thing your shotguns good for is taking your own head off.



Good points but I'm more concerned with getting out of my urban area with my guts still intact. I would think that once I got out of town and into the sticks the zombie hordes would have thinned out. There isn't more than a thousand people near my camp and most of them are survivalist nuts anyway.

Its a good forty minute drive to the nearest city and its hardly a city, more like a walmart and a few gas stations and a lumber yard. and no street lights.

If I was gonna hunker down in the city, I would definitely not want to be attracting attention to myself with hardcore weaponry.

I was actually thinking about smashing the stairs out of there as well because there is everything you would need on the second floor and there is a balcony that wraps 3/4 around the cabin, perfect for defending against wave after wave of undead.


EDIT: and chainsaws are the tits in this situation. Evildead anyone.
mrsmiley
10/31/09 1:12:11PM
I'm thinking perhaps a hardcore movie makeup kit as well.

If I can look like a Zombie and act like a Zombie,then perhaps I can pass for a zombie if I was ever in a hopeless situation (no weapons and masses of the undead all about).

This website offers a lot of bladed weapons.

http://zombietools.net/tools/
Rush
10/31/09 3:56:25PM
Just some general comments.

1) I don't get the chainsaw attraction. I think movies and games have given this tool more credit that it's worth. For starters, it is a heavy close range weapon. Unless you are fighting the dumb slow zombies I think it would slow you down more so than it is effective. Another thing is that it needs to be started, otherwise it is making a ton of noise idling. Let's not forget how it will spray blood all over you. If any of you have used a chainsaw to cut wood you'll know that it sprays saw dust all over your legs and feet. Think about where that spray will go if you are cutting a zombie at head height.

2) The list of essentials will certainly change with respect to what type of zombies they are (dumb and slow or smart and fast) and what you plan on doing (bunker up or run away).

If I am bunkering up, I want to think about containment in my area. Have an alarm system and/or a dog. Flame thrower to burn zombies in the vicinity (get rid of rotting smell and kill zombie virus). You want to be fortified, but not too much such that you cannot see or access most points quickly, in case you are surrounded. You also to attract non zombies, but be inconspicuous to zombies. A unfilled moat might be effective against slow dumb zombies, but I think it would be 50:50 with the fast and smart ones.

If you are running, you want items that are easy to carry and pack good punch. For this shotguns are a must due to their coverage and punch. Any melee weapons I would stick to bladed ones. However, I find that most people do not realize that getting a clean cut with a katana is not as easy as it sounds. Trust me, it takes experience to cut anything with density with a katana.

Melee weapons are certainly effective against the slow and dumb zombies, but are a risk against the fast and smart ones.
bojangalz
10/31/09 5:31:30PM
I'll admit, I'm a bit new to the concept of preparing for the coming zombie horde, so forgive my lack of general knowledge. But are dogs generally prone to zombie infestation? If so, I'm not certain that I'd care to have a K9 companion. For one their bound to bark, and odds are that's going to happen at a bad time and attract unwanted attention. ALso, if my pooch got infected and I needed to put him down in a less then humane way, I'm not sure how I'd handle that.

I'm right on board with ditching the chainsaw. Way too much bulk to be lunking around and messy business to say the least.

The shotty has to be a sawed-off for easier carry as well.
mrsmiley
10/31/09 7:05:47PM
I just got an idea.


I'm thinking it would be cool to create a "sim" game in which we play in teams.
Each team can choose which route they can take to survive the Zombie apocalypse through multiple choices and scenarios.
Through a little luck,proper preparation,and sound strategy we will see which team comes out on top.
Anybody up for something like that?
Jackelope
10/31/09 7:07:33PM
Flame throwers are a great tool vs. Zombies, but in the Zombie Apocalypse fuel is going to be hard to come by. The last thing you'll want to do is burn it all away in a flame thrower.

I do agree that Chainsaws are a bit over the top and unnecessary. Not to mention the fact that chainsaws can get stuck on all kinds of stuff while you're cutting through things and they're quite unwieldly above shoulder height. (where you will be doing most of your sawing, I'd imagine)

Best weapons IMO are a shotgun (preferably pump to avoid problems with jamming and for easy maintenence) and a baseball bat. I know bludgeoning can cause some serious blood spray, but swinging a bat back and forth doesn't require much skill and they're going to be easy to find in the zombie apocalypse. Not to mention that swords will cause blood spray, too.

Absolute bare bones survival necessities IMO are still

1) Fresh water supply
2) Knife
3) Rope
4) Compass
5) Army E-tool (Serves as weapon, shovel, hatchet)
6) Blanket

You drop me in the forest with those items and I'll build myself a damn fortress while living off the land. Same goes for in an urban environment.

I'm thinking we should put a limit on the amount of things able to be carried and/or the weight amount. That way people don't keep going over the top with ridiculous stuff
Aether
10/31/09 7:49:53PM
I would want a helicopter....

So I can fly to an island not infested with zombies.

I win.
BigBadAl
10/31/09 8:11:59PM

Posted by Aether

I would want a helicopter....

So I can fly to an island not infested with zombies.

I win.



So I guess you must know how to fly a chopper then or your plan would not work right

I do like Aarons idea of a crossbow, as you could make a point of retieving any darts shot so you will not run out of ammo.
breakdown5
10/31/09 8:26:42PM
I'll add in some sort of heavy duty gloves and boots for stomping the wounded zombies. I'm stickin with the chainsaw. It's multi-faceted. Also add in surgical masks and a paintball mask or heavy duty goggles to protect the peepers and face. A gas mask would work as well.

Rush
10/31/09 10:51:23PM

Posted by Jackelope

Flame throwers are a great tool vs. Zombies, but in the Zombie Apocalypse fuel is going to be hard to come by. The last thing you'll want to do is burn it all away in a flame thrower.



Yeah, there is always a downfall regardless of what you pick. I based mine off of the statement in the OP that said the plan was to stay put in the burbs.


As for the dog getting infected, I don't know. In biology there are very few viruses that cross react between dogs and humans, so it's possible, but unlikely. Barking aside, they are wonderful for detecting zombies because of their senses and they are very portable. Remember, camera surveillance may not be possible unless you have a source for electricity. If they are well trained, they are an asset IMO.
AchillesHeel
11/1/09 10:21:23AM
I live in a city, so stealth and mobility would be my greatest tool. With potentially thousands of zombies around, going undetected and using terrain to advantage would be key. I would want weapons that are useful in close quarters and that are quiet. For the most part, a weapon would be a last resort anyway.

A gun without a silencer and a flash suppressor would just be suicide, since zombies always seem to have good hearing. I don't really know how to use a gun anyway, beyond "point and squeeze." If it jammed, I wouldn't know how to clear it quickly, and I don't know how to disassemble and clean them.

My sneakers and my bicycle would be my best means of transportation inside the city. They require no fuel and are quiet. I can carry my bike over a chain-link fence and up ladders and so on. I can easily outrun the slow, shambling zombies. The running zombies would be a problem, though. I can outrace a running person on a flat straightaway on my bike, but acceleration is slower and any tight turns or hills might get me killed.

I don't have a car, and while I know the theory of how to hot-wire one, I've never actually tried it, and stuff like that is often harder in practice than "on paper." Setting off a car alarm would probably be deadly too.
gartface
11/1/09 10:40:57AM
Aluminum Bat
Crowbar
Shotgun
Jackelope
11/1/09 3:34:26PM

Posted by Rush


As for the dog getting infected, I don't know. In biology there are very few viruses that cross react between dogs and humans, so it's possible, but unlikely. Barking aside, they are wonderful for detecting zombies because of their senses and they are very portable. Remember, camera surveillance may not be possible unless you have a source for electricity. If they are well trained, they are an asset IMO.



Yeah, the dog is a great call IMO. I'd imagine the Zombie virus would be a retrovirus since we're assuming it is transmitted the same and acts basically the same as HIV/AIDS. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't Dog's DNA quite a bit different from human's and therefore it is highly unlikely a retrovirus like the Zombie virus would work on dogs?

Rush
11/1/09 7:07:32PM

Posted by Jackelope

Yeah, the dog is a great call IMO. I'd imagine the Zombie virus would be a retrovirus since we're assuming it is transmitted the same and acts basically the same as HIV/AIDS. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't Dog's DNA quite a bit different from human's and therefore it is highly unlikely a retrovirus like the Zombie virus would work on dogs?





The DNA is more similar than you think. However, viral infections have more to do with the physiology and infection methods rather than the DNA sequence (per se)

The only virus that I know that infects both off the top of my head is rabies. There are adenovireses, but they differ in ones that infect humans vs canines.
Jackelope
11/1/09 8:31:48PM

Posted by Rush


Posted by Jackelope

Yeah, the dog is a great call IMO. I'd imagine the Zombie virus would be a retrovirus since we're assuming it is transmitted the same and acts basically the same as HIV/AIDS. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't Dog's DNA quite a bit different from human's and therefore it is highly unlikely a retrovirus like the Zombie virus would work on dogs?





The DNA is more similar than you think. However, viral infections have more to do with the physiology and infection methods rather than the DNA sequence (per se)

The only virus that I know that infects both off the top of my head is rabies. There are adenovireses, but they differ in ones that infect humans vs canines.



Right, but it's my understanding that a retrovirus like HIV/AIDS is actually an RNA virus that changes the actual DNA through reverse transcription, isn't it? I know humans and dogs are similar DNA wise, but I figured it might be different enough that a retrovirus like that wouldn't be able to work. Maybe I'm wrong.. you would definitely know better than I
jae_1833
11/1/09 11:52:35PM
I guess we all would just have to agree on a the zombies nature. Are the zombies the type from the 1960's that shuffle and moan, the type from the today that can leap and run, or something else altogether that can formulate plans and infect multiple species like "I am Legend"?

Also how contagious is the virus, usually a bite causes transmission but in some recent movies the vomit, splattering of blood into the eyes, ect have caused infection as well.

These things would almost immediately change everyone's strategy's as the problems the zombies create would be that more complex.

I for one would never give up an AK-47 for a shotgun. This weapon has been proven over the years to be so easy to maintain and use that it has routinely been tought to kids as young as 10 years old. It shoots accurately at 300-350 meters, it fires both single shot and fully automatic. 30 rounds magazines are standard. It will NEVER jam! Easily the most proven rifle ever created on every battlefield known to the modern man.
Rush
11/2/09 11:28:43AM

Posted by Jackelope

Right, but it's my understanding that a retrovirus like HIV/AIDS is actually an RNA virus that changes the actual DNA through reverse transcription, isn't it? I know humans and dogs are similar DNA wise, but I figured it might be different enough that a retrovirus like that wouldn't be able to work. Maybe I'm wrong.. you would definitely know better than I



Not to start a lecture on biology, but...

No. Reverse transcription is the process by which the HIV RNA genome is converted into DNA. The DNA is integrated into the host genome, which is later trasncribed into RNA that gets packaged in new virus particles.

The process of integration, according to the most recent reviews, is not (DNA) sequence specific. It is not random, but the places it is inserted have are thought to be "selected" due to a few possibilities which involve accessibility, or other regulatory factors, but not sequence. From what I have seen, the cartoons depicting the integration process appear to involve non-homologous regions of viral:host DNA.

That being said, even monkeys are infected with variants of HIV (SIV), so considering that primate DNA is even more similar to humans than dog DNA, this suggests that a human virus would unlikely infect a dog if it were of the lentivirus type.

In terms of pop culture references, I believe the zombie virus in resident evil (projenator virus) infected many organisms. Whereas, in I am Legend, the viruses that infected humans vs. dogs were distinct. In 28 days later, the virus also seemed to be not specific to organisms, but from memory only primates were seen to be infected. There was also evidence that the birds were not affected.

Take it for what it's worth.
Rush
11/2/09 11:40:01AM

Posted by jae_1833

I for one would never give up an AK-47 for a shotgun. This weapon has been proven over the years to be so easy to maintain and use that it has routinely been tought to kids as young as 10 years old. It shoots accurately at 300-350 meters, it fires both single shot and fully automatic. 30 rounds magazines are standard. It will NEVER jam! Easily the most proven rifle ever created on every battlefield known to the modern man.




Can't argue with the stats of an AK-47. However, how available is AK ammo in the US compared to shotgun shells?
Jackelope
11/2/09 11:56:08AM

Posted by Rush


Posted by jae_1833

I for one would never give up an AK-47 for a shotgun. This weapon has been proven over the years to be so easy to maintain and use that it has routinely been tought to kids as young as 10 years old. It shoots accurately at 300-350 meters, it fires both single shot and fully automatic. 30 rounds magazines are standard. It will NEVER jam! Easily the most proven rifle ever created on every battlefield known to the modern man.




Can't argue with the stats of an AK-47. However, how available is AK ammo in the US compared to shotgun shells?



I can argue with my own life as evidence that AK's will jam and that they're not accurate at 300m. AK's are complete crap just like any other weapon is if you don't maintain them. The fact that it will shoot when covered in mud is just an excuse to be lazy and not maintain your weapon. Just get a good weapon and maintain it. I'd rather have a common bolt action hunting rifle with a much more common ammo type or a lever action brush gun vs. Zombies if we're talking distance to be honest. Fully auto is only good for suppression, and I don't think Zombies give a damn or feel fear enough to care whether they're being suppressed or not. Outside of 50 yards or so I guarantee you no one on this board can hit with significant accuracy while shooting on fully auto. Especially with an AK. It's hard to hit with regular accuracy laying prone with a machine gun on bipod legs. Usually only the first round or two will hit the target. Now add adrenaline, standing position, poorly fitted parts, and an unbalanced weapon into the equation and your stats are laughable. Trust me, there would be a lot more dead American soldiers if AK's were as good of a weapon as some people build them up to seem like they are.

One thing I will back up the OP on, though, is the fact that a shotgun is pretty much useless beyond 50 yards unless you've got slugs on hand. You can find shotgun ammo in abundance, and for that reason it is my weapon of choice, but there is something to be said for its uselessness beyond that range. AK's pack a pretty good punch no matter the distance, so if you start hitting with any accuracy you're going to drop Zombies. I also can't argue how nice having a 30 rd magazine is.

Also- Rush thanks for clarifying on the reverse transcription process of retroviruses. It's something I just learned about and I'm deeply fascinated by it. I'm curious to learn more.

I hate to keep making this about small little issues but I think what we're finding here is we need a clear definition of what our objectives are and what we're facing. Based on the limited knowledge I started by suggesting very basic things you will need. However, as people get more and more specific I think we need to narrow down what we're facing.

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