UFC and MMA Orgs. in general need better refs

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cj_striker
12/12/08 2:53:44PM
I just can't take it anymore. If I see one more dumb ass ref saying some stupid ass shit to fighters who are working hard on the ground or against the fence for position, like "Come on, fight" or "Lets go gentleman, before I stand it up",
I'm going to go crazy and jump inside the cage and beat the shit out of that ref. I completely understand that no one wants to watch a snoozefest or watch some wrestler lay and pray for 15 or 25 minutes, so I'm all for standing or breaking up two fighters who aren't doing anything, but I've seen way to many cases as of late where fighters who are working very hard for dominant positioning which could easily win them the fight, get screwed by some dumbass ref who stands them up. Bruno vs. Rees Wednesday night was a perfect example. I wanted to slap the taste out of the mouth of that ref and it sounded like Joe Rogan did too. I understand the troops were booing (and by the way I completely support the troops 100%, but those troops were really quick to boo, it seemed like most of them didn't really understand the sport that much), which no one wanted to hear, but you can't let that dictate the fight. Dana needs to lay down the law to those refs and get that problem fixed.
Jackelope
12/12/08 4:11:30PM
I think the big name refs have been doing a great job lately. Herb Dean, Josh Rosenthal, Mazzagati, Yamasaki... all those guys have been doing great.

Unfortunately there have been a few (like the dude at the fight for the troops) who haven't been doing such a great job. In time the cream will rise to the top and these crappy refs will be a thing of the past

EDIT: LOL, I put Jake Rosholt instead of Josh Rosenthal
cj_striker
12/12/08 4:43:28PM
I agree with you, they just need to definitely get rid of the refs that don't know what the hell they are doing
Diamondback2
12/14/08 9:43:55PM
I agree with the others that the well known refs (dean, maz, etc...) have been doing a very good job recently.

I think the biggest change that we have seen recently is the meeting where they clarified alot of the rules (can't remember the name right now, the one with Big John) more in detail, back of the head. Before that conference i remember almost every UFC event people would be pissed afterwords because of a questionable call or a lack thereof.

But since that conference I cannot remember any real big arguments bout strikes to the back of the head (aside from Marquardt UFC 85).

But the advantage and disadvantage of new refs are interesting:

Advantages:
Chance to find the next "Big John" as the sport is in need of another ref that is always reliable in a big fight. I cannot ever remember Big John botching a big fight.

Find more refs in different parts of the country. i know i cringe for every eastern USA or UK fight card as the ref department is most of the time lacking.

Disadvantages:
Some refs plain out suck (seems like some of them jump from boxing to MMA and because the AC's know them already, (mind you this is just a guess not a fact)), or simply worry too much abotu what the crowd thinks.

Stand-ups in UFN Fight for the Troops...... Nuff' Said.....

I think they need to fully clarify what justifies a stand up, i think for example when someone has side control or mount or the back no stand-ups/separations should be done like Rd 1 of Couture/Sylvia. That was a perfect call IMO. Guard/Half-Guard are ok if nothing is happening or person is unable to pass the guard.

which of course then brings up the issue of all the other guards, ie: Rubber, X, etc... for example i belive that no stand ups should be done from rubber guard due to it is an offensive controlled posistion used to attack. I cant speak for X as i havent used it yet as no one at my camp seems to know it that i know of.

I think they need to start having these confrences with experts as well as AC's.
Get Eddie Bravo, Maia, Dana White, Penn, Aoki, etc. Just examples, but then you can have a defined set of rules to judge a stand-up or seperation based off of.

of course i don't think it's reasonable to set a time to stand it up though (ex: like 90 seconds exactly or whatever) as it would distract the ref from the actual fight. that much a ref needs to be able to judge at least that.

and i'm suprised there isnt some sort of required BJJ knowledge to be a ref, for example at least watching some BJJ DVD's or something. it seems some refs don't understand a dominant posistion when they see it.

Point and case: Mario Yamasaki, when the heck have you ever seen him call a bad stand up? I can't remember ONE offhand. Y? Dude's a 3rd degree BJJ Black Belt.

This is a growing sport, in time there will be plenty of quality refs




bls1919
12/14/08 9:59:11PM
I get what you guys are saying......but the UFC, Strikeforce,Affliction, whoever doesnt employ the referee, they are provided by the coresponding AC. NSAC, CSAC, whoeverSAC. The ref in the Hill fight can't be held responsibile, he was probably watching the fighters heads watching to see if anyone was "out". No one looks for the leg break on a leg kick...............unless your name is Jose Landi-Jons
Diamondback2
12/14/08 10:19:55PM

Posted by bls1919

I get what you guys are saying......but the UFC, Strikeforce,Affliction, whoever doesnt employ the referee, they are provided by the coresponding AC. NSAC, CSAC, whoeverSAC. The ref in the Hill fight can't be held responsibile, he was probably watching the fighters heads watching to see if anyone was "out". No one looks for the leg break on a leg kick...............unless your name is Jose Landi-Jons



For sure you cannot blame the ref. If Joe Rogan starts yelling to call the fight it is because he knows either A: The Ref cannot see what he is seeing or B: The ref is not looking for what he saw.

In that case it was defiantly B and you can't hold that against the ref. Has anyone ever seen that in MMA b4? I sure as hell havent, the only thing i can think of remotely close is Shogun/Coleman I.

But the separations when a fighter had the back standing up were dumb. And it seems it's because the military crowd is not as educated about MMA and BJJ as normal UFC crowds and that one ref (can't remember his name) was too reliant on the crowd to make his calls. he's one ref that the AC's should not use for major MMA events for a while to he corrects this. but i don't know of any review procedures for MMA refs, but again, that's no fact, just to my knowledge.
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