MMA club’s video of eight-year-olds in cagefighting match causes controversy

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telnights
9/26/11 5:14:22PM
Yep, you know childhood — one minute you’re sharing your Graham crackers with your best pal during recess, the next you’ve got him in a rear naked choke submission hold. How young is too young to climb into the Thunderdome?

Link

I found this and feel writers like this is the reason so many people are misinformed about the sport.
mrsmiley
9/26/11 5:29:15PM

Posted by telnights

Yep, you know childhood — one minute you’re sharing your Graham crackers with your best pal during recess, the next you’ve got him in a rear naked choke submission hold. How young is too young to climb into the Thunderdome?

Link

I found this and feel writers like this is the reason so many people are misinformed about the sport.



I can to a very low degree understand a level of concern but I do find the article over the top. How they label it "disturbing" is almost funny. As if I will be completly disgusted at the horror which will unfold before my eyes. I've seen much more brutal displays of combat during my time in school.

Fast foward this video to around the 5:30 mark and I think this sums it up.
People fear what they don't understand and some one will always make a dollar out of fear. The public,the schools,the parents,the media,all go for the devil of the day and for some reason they continue to want to make it MMA.

Penn & Teller
KungFuMaster
9/26/11 6:00:03PM
I did not read the article but I did watch a few seconds of the fight. I have to say I disagree with young kids engaging in mma. However, you have karate tournaments for kids as well whereby injuries do take place in more than just the physical.

I cannot prove this but taking a beating at a very young age cannot be a good thing for the growing mind.
Manak
9/26/11 6:02:34PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by telnights

Yep, you know childhood — one minute you’re sharing your Graham crackers with your best pal during recess, the next you’ve got him in a rear naked choke submission hold. How young is too young to climb into the Thunderdome?

Link

I found this and feel writers like this is the reason so many people are misinformed about the sport.



I can to a very low degree understand a level of concern but I do find the article over the top. How they label it "disturbing" is almost funny. As if I will be completly disgusted at the horror which will unfold before my eyes. I've seen much more brutal displays of combat during my time in school.

Fast foward this video to around the 5:30 mark and I think this sums it up.
People fear what they don't understand and some one will always make a dollar out of fear. The public,the schools,the parents,the media,all go for the devil of the day and for some reason they continue to want to make it MMA.

Penn & Teller



props but gotta spread..I understand who this can been seen as crazy to have young kids fight cause it is brutal but if you are sickened by this, what about pee-wee football or rugby, both sports which invite trying to de-cleat ppl.. This isnt boxing where u can get punched in the face for an hr and still get an 8 count. the eductaion system just keeps dissapointing me.
machodog76
9/26/11 6:19:47PM
Did they wear head gear in the the thunder dome? I could be wrong it's been a while since I've seen the movie.
kopower
9/26/11 6:33:40PM
I read about this the other day. I've been looking for the video. Some of the comments people make regarding it to be barbaric just made me shake my head.
machodog76
9/26/11 6:36:28PM
I have to wonder if this writer has ever been to a grade school wrestling match, or a Pop Warner footbal game. Parents can be absolutely despicable at these things and the kids get the crap kicked out of them. I don't think having really young kids (5-10) train in MMA is the best thing they could be doing with there time. I think TMA's would be better at age as most of them stress the spiritual and ethical aspects of the fighting arts more than MMA (which to me is more about pure competition). That being said I'd worry a lot more about my kid playing youth football, than learning MMA.
Manak
9/26/11 6:42:50PM

Posted by machodog76

I have to wonder if this writer has ever been to a grade school wrestling match, or a Pop Warner footbal game. Parents can be absolutely despicable at these things and the kids get the crap kicked out of them. I don't think having really young kids (5-10) train in MMA is the best thing they could be doing with there time. I think TMA's would be better at age as most of them stress the spiritual and ethical aspects of the fighting arts more than MMA (which to me is more about pure competition). That being said I'd worry a lot more about my kid playing youth football, than learning MMA.



Train as GSP does to be a mixed martial artist but not actually compete or sparr since at such a young age it could be damaging to their development as in any contact sport
tallica62
9/26/11 6:47:40PM
I wish my parents had me doing that at their age.... or at least gave me the option
ncordless
9/26/11 7:22:13PM
I started wrestling when I was 7. I know others who started way before that.
NE-1
9/26/11 7:57:19PM
I find the fact that children are fighting in MMA disappointing. In this case context is everything. While karate tournaments provide the exact same thing, the idea is scoring points. In MMA you have two kids in a cage going for a KOs and chokes its going to seem barbaric. The bottom line is that CHILDREN should not be spectacle for fight fans. Grappling I don't havea problem with, but the effects of concussions are far too serious to expose kids to. Imagine a 14 year old looking and sounding like a punch drunk boxer because he took one too many shots to the head.

This sport has come too far and overcome so much, but to deal with a child dieing from some unknown pre-existing condition would be an ENORMOUS set back.

I love football and MMA and intend on my children participating in both, but won't allow them to practice making full contact to the head during training. And atleast football is attempting to address issues with brain trama.

My two-cents anyway.

(at the ages of 15 and 16 i'd be more receptive)
MisterFreeze
9/26/11 8:07:57PM
My little brother is 12 and he recently asked me to start training him so that he could compete in mma tournaments.
My father even told me that he would have no problems with my brother competing. I think it's a very safe sport, with no more risk of injury than in wrestling, karate or football...
prophecy033
9/26/11 8:21:29PM
I have no problem with this whatsoever. The kids had how many adults in the ring with them? People who are uneducated on the subject are the ones outraged. If they took the time to learn about it like they take the time to alert the newspapers and internet site about this, they would be well aware that football is much more harmful. I've seen a kid on my little brothers football team when he was in grade school that was huge, the kid weighed 20 pounds less then me, take out 2 kids on consecutive plays and both had concussions and one had to be taken to the hospital. I would much rather have my kid in classes learning MMA and competing in tournaments then in football. Nothing against football, I just worry about what could happen to these kids when someone smashs into you that's 50 pounds more then you
mattjonesy
9/26/11 9:10:20PM
Weve had a massive up roar in the UK about this and it drives me insane! For a start the newsapaper articles calling it `cage fighting`really shows their lack of understanding for the sport of MMA.
Some journalists are just stuck in the 1990s and if you know nothing about this amazing sport then dont talk about it!
Aether
9/26/11 9:19:16PM
I was sparring in Karate probably around age 9, I see no difference at all.
warglory
9/26/11 11:09:19PM
Everything kids do in sports has to be a learning experience, that's the point of youth sport. It's the parents who take the competition aspect too seriously, when instead parents should be encouraging their kids to have fun above all else. Seeing two kids fighting in a cage while parents cheer them on, I just don't see how that can result in any kind of real value for kids. I don't think I could ever cheer on my kid at the age of 8 to attack another child, it just seems wrong and unnecessary.

TMA, as has already been stated, is much a more fine tuned learning environment for children, or MMA on a purely educational and athletic level, rather than competitive. MMA competition should be reserved for teens who have the maturity to be able to deal with competition, not 8 year olds who should be playing with transformers.
JoeWarren33
9/27/11 12:28:29AM
I don't understand how this is a problem. They had a good amount of protection on the lower body. They had huge gloves, and to top it off about 5 people or so were in the ring as the fight happened. Seemed to me as if this was run well for such a thing.

My only concern with the parents in the ring (if they are in fact the parents of the children). Is what if the one child is pounding the crap out of the other kid and the parent jumps in, then the other parent to defend his kid gets involved. Then we got mayhem.
ianinspain
9/27/11 6:49:54AM
It was apparently a submission wrestling match so not really MMA and was used in the UK media to just use the words 'Cage fighting' again. I was fighting Karate at a young age and see nothing worng with it. It is just the addition of a cage that people see rather than anything else.
tattflash
9/27/11 6:52:16AM
It is being blown all out of proportion purely because it is in a cage and therefore a form of human cockfighting to the far less educated about MMA.You have a far greater risk of a kid being injured in TKD with the variety of kicks , kick boxing and boxing, even with all the head gear on.
It was reported earlier in the week by the BBC that people were concerned about adults drinking alcohol, and bikini clad women in the ring. However children are allowed into pubs/bars until 9pm with an adult for meals, or to watch live football etc, no one complains then. And as far as I am aware, children have not YET been banned from beaches where you will find bikini clad women.
As ever here in the UK it is pure lazy journalism that fuels the fire, by that I mean they sit on their arses ,watch the video, do no research and print the story without any facts as this article proves. It is well worth a read just to see how it is reported.
I actually emailed the reporter to tell her what I thought of her lazy reporting.
She is fiona.mcintosh@sundaymirror.co.uk


Kddie cage fighting is disgusting story
Lucas
9/27/11 7:01:56AM
I agree it has been blown out of proportion but i do not feel it was the correct setting for two 8 year olds to be grappling. It should be a tornament for kids not a mens mma event that happened to have one kids grappling match on the card so you have lots of men drinking and shouting. If it was a kids grappling event it would be more a family afare even if the fight still took place in a cage.
tattflash
9/27/11 7:25:36AM
You would still have the uproar because of the fact that the event is held in a cage, that I feel is the be all and end all of this argument, the fact that people still term it as human cockfighting proves that point. I am not condoning the fact that the event was on an adult card as it should of been on a under 16 card, but the fact is there are many amateur boxing events involving kids held in working men,s clubs and function rooms that allow alcohol, yet no shouting from the rooftops about that
airkerma
9/27/11 9:11:46AM

Posted by KungFuMaster

I did not read the article but I did watch a few seconds of the fight. I have to say I disagree with young kids engaging in mma. However, you have karate tournaments for kids as well whereby injuries do take place in more than just the physical.

I cannot prove this but taking a beating at a very young age cannot be a good thing for the growing mind.



I wouldn't disagree with this, but we need some form of consistency. People are afraid of mma with children for good reason. However, they don't seem to have a problem with any other competitive sport that could result in an injury (almost all of them). One example I would give that few will consider is gymnastics. Kids who train gymnastics seriously at a young age will have stunted growth, chronic injuries, and most likely some form of surgery including titanium bracers or rods. Just look at all of the competitors in the olympics, they are generally young and most of their careers are over mid 20s because of injuries, yet as a society people don't have a problem with this. Just because it is new doesn't mean it's bad so how about a little consistency and make it actually about the kids and not about parents personal views. If you don't want your child competing in mma, then don't let them compete in mma hurr durr.
kingsmasher
9/27/11 10:21:29AM
The problem at this age is because most kids at this age do not know what it is to have respect for the sport and quite simply honor too...I can see this and then someone gets injured at home or something playing around because of it and wham!!! Lawsuits!!!!!
cowcatcher
9/27/11 11:49:48AM
It was a freaking grappling match!!! The original article about this said it was an MMA fight, and described how fights could be finished with a single punch, kick, whatever, even though none of that was allowed since it was a grappling match. They went on to describe Alex Reid as "Britain's most high profile fighter" before they asked for his two cents. This was sensationalist journalism at it's worst.
Bubbles
9/27/11 1:23:53PM
ask Christopher Reeve if MMA is worse than horseback riding. i dont mean to sound like a dick, but a casual ride did more damage than this "human cockfighting bloodsport." im fairly certain cheerleading has more deaths and severe injuries than MMA has in the last 20 years.

i listen to a Toronto sports radio station almost daily (fan 590) and there are a couple of hosts who still slam the sport as such (mind you they are boxing nuthuggers) even though Dana White, Big John, Showdown Joe (works for the station and company) and numerous fighters have been on the show dispelling this myth.

i really dont like figure skating, but you dont see me slamming that sport...esopecially in an uneducated fashion. i think skaing and holding a chick with one arm in the air 8 feet above ICE is more dangerous than a grappling tournament
machodog76
9/27/11 1:25:06PM

Posted by cowcatcher

It was a freaking grappling match!!! The original article about this said it was an MMA fight, and described how fights could be finished with a single punch, kick, whatever, even though none of that was allowed since it was a grappling match. They went on to describe Alex Reid as "Britain's most high profile fighter" before they asked for his two cents. This was sensationalist journalism at it's worst.

Ya but the story is much less interesting if you stick the the facts, such as-
"It is all based around martial arts. The kids are not getting hit or anything at all when they are under age,” he said.

"We do not let them strike - punch and kick - until the age of 14 or 15." I can see why brittish journalism gets such a bad rap. I don't think they have libel laws like we do in the states?



bjj1605
9/28/11 1:37:46AM

Posted by machodog76

I have to wonder if this writer has ever been to a grade school wrestling match, or a Pop Warner footbal game. Parents can be absolutely despicable at these things and the kids get the crap kicked out of them. I don't think having really young kids (5-10) train in MMA is the best thing they could be doing with there time. I think TMA's would be better at age as most of them stress the spiritual and ethical aspects of the fighting arts more than MMA (which to me is more about pure competition). That being said I'd worry a lot more about my kid playing youth football, than learning MMA.



The gym I train at (Curran Martial Arts) has childrens martial arts. Its an MMA gym and the kids learn the same techniques as the adults. But for the kids we have a traditional belt ranking system (though they wear colored shirts because they don't wear gi's) and there is a moral element. Each class begins and ends with the recitation of the "code of the black belt". "I will live by the principles of blackbelt: modesty, integrity, courtesy, perseverance, indomitable spirit... maybe a few more".

There is some reason for concern with kids learning martial arts though and especially fighting. The other day I saw a 6 year old kid at my schoIol punching and kicking his mom (at which point an instructor intervened and threatened to stop training him unless he promised to be nice to his mom).

I think kids simple aren't mature enough to understand when fighting is ok and when its not. At the very least, they need to be told over and over and over again that they are only to fight in competition or in self defense.

Others have also mentioned the fact that concussions and other health problems could come from fighting at such a young age (by the way this was AN MMA FIGHT not a grappling match. Watch the video, they punch each other in the face and aggressively kick each other.)

I say let them train. Watch them closely. Tech them right and wrong. But don't let them fight full contact MMA matches.

All that being said. When I watched this video my reaction wasn't "disgust". I immediately thought "Wow. Those kids are gonna grow up to be bad ass fighters."
FlashyG
9/28/11 2:26:34AM
First I love how the article in the OP has a prominently placed embedded video that isn't even of the grappling match he's calling a fight. Then a little link within the text of the article to actually see the match he's describing. He's actually going out of his way to push an agenda.

Second, what would be more dangerous grappling against either of those kids or wrestling with this 8 year old

Video


KungFuMaster
9/28/11 1:25:32PM
I was not going to entertain this topic anymore but it seems the topic will not go away.

Here is the thing...

Competition is great for kids. It builds character. It makes kids stronger mentally and prepares them for adult competition. However, if certain competitions prove to be too emotionally demanding, we have to take a step back and look at it from a psychological point of view.

When kids participate in sports such as little league baseball, football and soccer etc., they can have fun while losing. It is an indirect loss. When a kid loses in an mma match, it is not an indirect loss. It is the most direct and personal loss a competitor will have to endure as a sportsman. Many adults are not able to come back from such personal losses and it is with this thought we must look after children's safety first and foremost.

Physical injuries will heal but mental injuries will last a long time if they are not treated and or dealt with properly.

Combat sports are the most personal and direct form of competitions. To participate in such competitions, a competitor should be held to certain criteria.

I pride myself in learning and strive to become wiser with each passing day......I only tell you this to tell you I have made very foolish decisions in my life as an adult. Many of my mistakes are the result of foolish decisions on my part in reaction to what was happening to me.

Many adults cannot handle the mental pressures of life. What makes one think we should introduce it to kids at such a young age?

Let kids be kids. Kids will play and they will get hurt .......but let it not be at the hands of another kid whose purpose.................. is to hurt.
cowcatcher
9/28/11 2:38:28PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

I was not going to entertain this topic anymore but it seems the topic will not go away.

Here is the thing...

Competition is great for kids. It builds character. It makes kids stronger mentally and prepares them for adult competition. However, if certain competitions prove to be too emotionally demanding, we have to take a step back and look at it from a psychological point of view.

When kids participate in sports such as little league baseball, football and soccer etc., they can have fun while losing. It is an indirect loss. When a kid loses in an mma match, it is not an indirect loss. It is the most direct and personal loss a competitor will have to endure as a sportsman. Many adults are not able to come back from such personal losses and it is with this thought we must look after children's safety first and foremost.

Physical injuries will heal but mental injuries will last a long time if they are not treated and or dealt with properly.

Combat sports are the most personal and direct form of competitions. To participate in such competitions, a competitor should be held to certain criteria.

I pride myself in learning and strive to become wiser with each passing day......I only tell you this to tell you I have made very foolish decisions in my life as an adult. Many of my mistakes are the result of foolish decisions on my part in reaction to what was happening to me.

Many adults cannot handle the mental pressures of life. What makes one think we should introduce it to kids at such a young age?

Let kids be kids. Kids will play and they will get hurt .......but let it not be at the hands of another kid whose purpose.................. is to hurt.



So you're saying kids shouldn't be involved in combat sports because they can't handle losing? Maybe we shouldn't let them play anything without a team around them at all. Maybe we stop letting them play board and video games, or have spelling bees at school because it's so bad for a kid to see that sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. I'm sorry, but your logic is ridiculous and sound like the thoughts of someone that never played sports growing up. Losing is part of life, so is winning, and if kids never try their hands at these things they will be lesser adults for it. I basically think your assessment is dead wrong, and I would never follow that advice with my own kid, and would urge others to do just the opposite of what you are saying. I want him to go out and try every sport, or activity he can. It's called living.
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