UK MMA - gained some respect at last?

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moob
6/21/09 11:16:51AM
Have read several times on this forum prior to TUF screening, that the UK doesn't have a very good reputation for MMA.

Was just wondering after both the dominant performances throughout TUF Season, and more importantly, the wins for both UK fighters taking the TUF titles, if UK mixed martial arts has now gained some credibility from our friends over the pond?

Thoughts?
TimW001
6/21/09 1:20:00PM
I haven't heard anything about that. I know that UK people are some of the toughest in the world.
NatedawgThaM
6/21/09 1:40:09PM
No, I couldn't stand that Lightweight fight. Not just that fight, it seems like in every UFC fight recently everybody just wants to hug each other against the cage, pisses me off. Atleast when Randy does it he does damage. Everybody elbow barely land anything major and they just hug. And this is coming from me, someone who loves and appreciates every style of fighting. Just hate when a guy just holds the guy and does nothing but clinch and hug. I hate watching it. I love BJJ, I love wrestling, I love boxing even more, but I cant stand when people just hug each other and do nothing like in the Saunders/Swick fight, and in that lightweight fight last night.

fizzle
6/21/09 1:40:47PM
I think the only real criticism I've ever heard about UK fighters might be lack of wrestling... but UK guys are bangers who are tough as nails... My saying this has nothing to do with the performance put forward by the UK team on TUF though. The UK team was just plain superior and more of a cohesive unit then the USA team. I think the global opinion of UK MMA has been on the rise since Bisping's first card after TUF. Either way, the UK guys killed this season of TUF so my hats off to them.
moob
6/21/09 2:56:46PM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

No, I couldn't stand that Lightweight fight. Not just that fight, it seems like in every UFC fight recently everybody just wants to hug each other against the cage, pisses me off. Atleast when Randy does it he does damage. Everybody elbow barely land anything major and they just hug. And this is coming from me, someone who loves and appreciates every style of fighting. Just hate when a guy just holds the guy and does nothing but clinch and hug. I hate watching it. I love BJJ, I love wrestling, I love boxing even more, but I cant stand when people just hug each other and do nothing like in the Saunders/Swick fight, and in that lightweight fight last night.




So, UK MMA hasn't gained any respect from you because you didn't like that lightweight fight?

Riiiiiight.
Kpro
6/21/09 3:09:01PM
Yeah, I also don't remember seeing anything about the UK not having a good MMA reputation.

As was already stated, this board has had conversation about the UK being well behind in wrestling, but I don't remember posts saying UK MMA had a bad reputation.

Maybe you could cite some examples so we know what you're referring to.
moob
6/21/09 3:15:22PM

Posted by Kpro

Yeah, I also don't remember seeing anything about the UK not having a good MMA reputation.

As was already stated, this board has had conversation about the UK being well behind in wrestling, but I don't remember posts saying UK MMA had a bad reputation.

Maybe you could cite some examples so we know what you're referring to.



I just recall there being a number of comments made regards the UK MMA scene over the time I've posted here. I didn't really bother to note down who said them nor when it was said. Just a general observation.

Think it was mainly commented on after events held in the UK, as they frequently have a large UK representation.

We are still behind in MMA though, but I reckon TUF has put the UK on the map - especially after dominating a nation where it all started.
slapshot
6/21/09 3:53:43PM
Not that Ive herd it hear but honestly there really is not a lot of talent that Ive seen come from there in MMA, I see most of there talent in K1but I dont see how thats dogging out the Country or something like that..


Posted by moob


Posted by Kpro

Yeah, I also don't remember seeing anything about the UK not having a good MMA reputation.

As was already stated, this board has had conversation about the UK being well behind in wrestling, but I don't remember posts saying UK MMA had a bad reputation.

Maybe you could cite some examples so we know what you're referring to.



I just recall there being a number of comments made regards the UK MMA scene over the time I've posted here. I didn't really bother to note down who said them nor when it was said. Just a general observation.

Think it was mainly commented on after events held in the UK, as they frequently have a large UK representation.

We are still behind in MMA though, but I reckon TUF has put the UK on the map - especially after dominating a nation where it all started.


Honestly you didn't dominate anything, your talking about a TV show not a true sporting event.
I thought your guys looked better than the guys they picked for the US but I dont think there was a pointed effort to stack the deck by Dana, had he wanted to make sure the UK lost IMO he could have.
You have to realize the population of the US is a lot higher than the UK so its not that our people are superior to yours we just have more to pick from.
Jackelope
6/21/09 3:57:31PM
I think you're just being touchy given that you're from the area. It is my job to monitor the forums, and I've never noticed people bashing on the UK. I think you'd find that most people in the United States actually have a deep love for everything UK. Irish, Scottish, it doesn't matter. We love 'em all.

There might be some people who say dumb things, but the general consensus is that fighters are fighters, wherever they're from. If you put out a quality fighter, you put out a quality fighter, no ifs ands or buts about it. It doesn't matter if he's from Antarctica or the deepest and coldest region of Siberia.

I will say that the U.S. fighters they had on the show this season were not near as quality as they could have been. That's the way the UFC set it up, though. By saying that I don't mean to take ANYTHING away from the UK fighters who put on awesome performances (all of them looked great in the finale IMO) I just mean to say that I think there is still great talent hiding all over the world.
moob
6/21/09 4:55:37PM
slapshot - all the uk fighters beat their usa counterparts it the actual event so I guess that was domination right there - not in a tv show either. Jackelope - perhaps contributors from the uk are on the defensive on here what with the bashing bisping gets on a regular basis. My point however was that the uk is a small nation and their fighters went over to the usa and won comfortably in spite of home advantage etc
Jackelope
6/21/09 5:07:51PM

Posted by moob

slapshot - all the uk fighters beat their usa counterparts it the actual event so I guess that was domination right there - not in a tv show either. Jackelope - perhaps contributors from the uk are on the defensive on here what with the bashing bisping gets on a regular basis. My point however was that the uk is a small nation and their fighters went over to the usa and won comfortably in spite of home advantage etc



People definitely don't give Bisping the credit he deserves, but a lot of that is due to his personal attitude and the controversial decision over Matt Hamill. If that is what you were referring to, then I completely agree that people hate on the UK. I wouldn't take that as a knock on the UK, though... I'd take that as a knock on Bisping.

Rashad Evans is an example of the same type of deal. People don't like to give him credit for his skills, but it's because of some controversial wins and a poor attitude. Except, of course, Evans is from the U.S.
moob
6/21/09 5:36:55PM
some very well put points jackelope - props
Franklinfan47
6/21/09 6:46:27PM
I have to say, I was definately both pleasantly surprised and impressed by not only how the UK's fighters performed (which was awesome to say the least), but how much of a better team they formed compared to the Americans. They were much more professional, friendly, and just seemed more like an actual mma camp. Thats why I picked Wilks over DeMarques even though he was the underdog. Just haven't been impressed with anyone on the US team.

Do I think Wilks, Pearson, Winner, or Osipczak ever be champions? no, but I thought they represented their nation well.

UK MMA

P.S Bisping is still gonna lose to Henderson though, sorry
ncordless
6/21/09 7:44:36PM
It was good to see the UK guys win because that will probably help MMA in the UK. There are some great fighters from the UK (Bisping, Hardy, etc.) but you got to admit that the whole lot of TUF this year were far from world-beaters. Wilks looked decent, but it will be a long time before he wins a fight against a top ten fighter.

I would like to see a TUF where they actually get the best prospects from two countries instead of random young fighters.

That is why I am looking forward to TUF 10 because some of those guys will at least mean something in the division in the near future.

So, to answer your question, yes I do respect UK mma more than I used to. Hathaway's win over Story was particularly intriguing because he out-grappled a US wrestling-based fighter. Traditionally, the idea is that UK fighters can't wrestle to save their life. Bt that seems to prove to be less and less true. But, the fact that two Brits won TUF 9 does not really influence my opinion.
prozacnation1978
6/21/09 7:57:12PM
both uk guys won't be in the ufc in 2 years
slapshot
6/21/09 11:38:01PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

both uk guys won't be in the ufc in 2 years


I agree and if we are going to be nationalistic about it then lets see some ranked fighters from the UK.
Bisping and who?
Like I said the uk guys did better but whats it mean? Are you trying to say they faced the best american fighters out there that where available? If so I dont agree.

Why do we even care what county fighters come from? I can honestly say its not something I normally take into account.
SociopathX
6/22/09 1:29:30AM
UK still doesn't have a top 5 fighter in any ufc weight class.

Bisping will most likely lose to Hendo. Bisping has never impressed me ... has managed to squeak through fights.
EvenFlow
6/22/09 1:42:43AM
In regards to the title, yes respect was earned but MMA is still young in England and dont be offended when I say it'll take time before they're able to produce champions just like it did in the Americas. The respect you're looking for dosnt come from beating nobodies on a TV show then beating the best nobody from the other team in the finale, I doubt the recent winners will do much of anything but we'll see. Dan Hardy is the only one at the moment with true potential to become champ one day with time and a lot of wrestling work, its no secret English fighters are notorious for being behind the curve on that. And Bisbing will just never touch that belt no matter what weight hes in quite bluntly, thats a different story if he can dominate or finish Hendo, which is unlikely.
jiujitsufreak74
6/22/09 1:49:52AM
i don't think TUF proved that to me at all. however, i already gave the UK a lot of respect in terms of the quality of MMA it has. this season of TUF had poor talent level on both sides. i know that there are a lot better fighters from the UK, as well as the US, that were more deserving to be on the show. in fact, TUF even turned down certain fighters because they were too talented; such as Wallhead and Mohamed.
Aaronno9
6/22/09 3:34:24AM

Posted by slapshot


Posted by prozacnation1978

both uk guys won't be in the ufc in 2 years


I agree and if we are going to be nationalistic about it then lets see some ranked fighters from the UK.
Bisping and who?
Like I said the uk guys did better but whats it mean? Are you trying to say they faced the best american fighters out there that where available? If so I dont agree.

Why do we even care what county fighters come from? I can honestly say its not something I normally take into account.




I see alot more potential in Winner and and Pearson than I didn in Forrest when he won the show, to say neither of these guys will be around in 2 years is absolutly absurd considering they'll get low level fighters for the first year anyways. Its also getting pretty tiring reading about how the US didnt have their best available team, considering the likes of Mills, Mohammed and Wallhead didnt get into the house. Then you guys got Johnson and Dent, who both had way more experiance than anybody on the UK team.

As far as the ranked fighters thing, well thats just a silly argument tbh. Alot of the UK fighters in the UFC are still make their way through the ranks. Its not that they're not good enough, its just lack of oppertunity. I mean, you could rank Hardy top 10 really, considering Davies was ranked for a while, then theirs the likes of Etim, who given more top training and experiance could crack the top 10.

Its hardly a coincidence that the majority of top ranked fighters are from countries where MMA has been big for a long time, in the US, Japan, Brazil, and Canada to an extent. You cant realisticly expect to be seeing a country where MMA is still seen as an emerging sport to be popping out a constant train of top tens.
Kpro
6/22/09 4:05:36AM
I guess for me, fighters gain or lose my respect, not countries.

If I hate an American fighter, I don't hate "American fighters".

If I love watching a UK fighter, it doesn't mean I love watching "UK fighters".

Its on a person by person basis and I'd never pigeon-hole any fighter on his or her country of origin.
Pitbullpeebs
6/22/09 8:00:41AM
Yeah wrestling is our weak point, in the US you do it at school, here with our nanny state and health and safety brigade we are always gonna behind on that front, but anyone remember the Dynamite Kid!
Jackelope
6/22/09 9:19:14AM

Posted by Aaronno9
Its also getting pretty tiring reading about how the US didnt have their best available team, considering the likes of Mills, Mohammed and Wallhead didnt get into the house. Then you guys got Johnson and Dent, who both had way more experiance than anybody on the UK team.




I don't get how it's tiring to hear that. They didn't get the best available talent in both the US and UK. If anything, I think the fans should be making more noise about it because it's complete B.S. for them to deny skilled fighters an opportunity like this if they did well in the tryouts, which by all accounts there were several fighters that did. This is the danger of a monopoly on the market from the UFC- They no longer showcase the best fighters, only the fighters they deem fit. That's not fair to the fans. That means we're not getting as quality of a product as we deserve.

emfleek
6/22/09 9:40:20AM

Posted by Kpro

I guess for me, fighters gain or lose my respect, not countries.

If I hate an American fighter, I don't hate "American fighters".

If I love watching a UK fighter, it doesn't mean I love watching "UK fighters".

Its on a person by person basis and I'd never pigeon-hole any fighter on his or her country of origin.



Bingo. This country versus country bullshit is tiring.
Aaronno9
6/22/09 9:41:23AM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Aaronno9
Its also getting pretty tiring reading about how the US didnt have their best available team, considering the likes of Mills, Mohammed and Wallhead didnt get into the house. Then you guys got Johnson and Dent, who both had way more experiance than anybody on the UK team.




I don't get how it's tiring to hear that. They didn't get the best available talent in both the US and UK. If anything, I think the fans should be making more noise about it because it's complete B.S. for them to deny skilled fighters an opportunity like this if they did well in the tryouts, which by all accounts there were several fighters that did. This is the danger of a monopoly on the market from the UFC- They no longer showcase the best fighters, only the fighters they deem fit. That's not fair to the fans. That means we're not getting as quality of a product as we deserve.




Its tiring becouse it seems like its only ever mentioned in regards to the American team, and being used as an exuse as to why to U.K team won. It seems like only wolfenstien and JJfreak (just judging by the posts ive read) realise that the U.K team wasnt as strong as it could of been either.

I agree with what your saying though, from that point of veiw I think its valid to question why the UFC didnt use the best available talent - I just dont think its fair to use as a point against the success of the UK team. If that makes any sense.
Franklinfan47
6/22/09 12:26:41PM
I think some of you "yanks" are getting too defensive. MMA in the US has obviously progressed further because of its longstanding history with the sport. I don't think the point of this thread was to start a debate about who is better in mma-UK or US-it was to ask whether or not the UK team this season changed some of your perceptions of UK mma. I think its understandable, because there were some people before the season started that were saying UK would get crushed because of lack of wrestling, bleh, bleh, bleh. Statements like "both will be out of the ufc in two years", etc, just makes you sound bitter that the US team lost.
Jackelope
6/22/09 4:21:19PM

Posted by Aaronno9

Its tiring becouse it seems like its only ever mentioned in regards to the American team, and being used as an exuse as to why to U.K team won. It seems like only wolfenstien and JJfreak (just judging by the posts ive read) realise that the U.K team wasnt as strong as it could of been either.

I agree with what your saying though, from that point of veiw I think its valid to question why the UFC didnt use the best available talent - I just dont think its fair to use as a point against the success of the UK team. If that makes any sense.



From that perspective I definitely understand it. I just hope people realize that every country out there has talent waiting in the wings. It's not limited to the U.S. at all
cowcatcher
6/23/09 7:01:43PM
ian freeman made me respect UK MMA. did this season help, in a way yeah, the brits were all very professional throughout the show and that says to me that they werent there for face time, they take MMA seriously. will we have a UFC champ from the UK in the next year or 2? probably not, but etim, hathaway, bisping, mills and others are paving the way for the next group of young fighters from the UK to be that much better and further the progression of the sport on that side of the pond.

like many others have said though, a fighter is a fighter and ill like or hate him based on performance, and character rather than where theyre from.
moob
6/24/09 3:25:17PM

Posted by Franklinfan47

I think some of you "yanks" are getting too defensive. MMA in the US has obviously progressed further because of its longstanding history with the sport. I don't think the point of this thread was to start a debate about who is better in mma-UK or US-it was to ask whether or not the UK team this season changed some of your perceptions of UK mma. I think its understandable, because there were some people before the season started that were saying UK would get crushed because of lack of wrestling, bleh, bleh, bleh. Statements like "both will be out of the ufc in two years", etc, just makes you sound bitter that the US team lost.



Precisely.

At least someone got the idea.
CwB
6/24/09 5:41:32PM
i dont respect any fighter not fighting out of las vegas

so there, i hate everyone equally
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