Mixed martial artist can't recover

Why dose it seem that MMA athletes cant recover from the adversity of loosing (even after a good start to their career. some examples of what I meen, Brad Kohler, Justin levens, some bigger examples being, Cabbage, Tank, Mark Kerr, and to some degree Ken Shamrock (that probably can be contributed to age). Dose anyone know any good examples off hand of someone who has been able to turn it around in the middle or late in his career?

I think the UFC has a champion in every division at the moment who I'd say that about:

Couture: 8 losses, considered too small as a HW after back-to-back losses to Ricco and Barnett and done as a fighter after being KOd twice by Chuck. Now he's beaten two guys that are over 250 in championship fights.

Jackson: 6 total losses, started 1-2 in Pride and whether they blamed Chute Box or the loss of his edge when he devoted himself to Christianity, some non-inspiring wins surrounding highlight reel KOs by Wandy (twice) and Shogun gave plenty of ammunition for skeptics. People said he would never be as good as he was when he "almost won the Pride title" and now he's beat the UFC and Pride champs in back-to-back fights.

Silva: Going 3-2 in Pride seemed to indicate that he was good, but not championship material. Going 4-0 in the UFC tells a different story.

Serra: Record of 7-4 combined with a small frame at a time the 155 pound class was abolished seemed to say the same thing about Serra as it did Silva. But that was before he won the most competitive TUF ever and then beat the guy everyone thought was unbeatable in GSP.

Sherk: Good enough to beat anyone he could wrestle to the ground, but losses Hughes and GSP showed that the guys at the top of 170 didn't fit that bill. Who would think a guy who weighed 185 with no bodyfat could fight at 155? And who finally wins their first championship in their 33rd professional fight?

There are some others beside that. For a single performance I think the most notable one was "washed up" Mark Coleman winning the 2000 Pride GP. Prior to the tourney he had gone 1-4 in his last 5 fights.

all good examples, but what about the more extreme, someone like mark Kerr he ran thru everyone he fought early on goin 11-0 and now sits on 5 strait losses. Is it possible that he lost confidence at this point in his career after being as dominant as he was? Someone like tank is a little easier to read, he's never been willing to conform to todays mma standards of cross training. Brad Kohler not a popular fighter probably most known for his one punch KO of steve judson, he starts 11-4 and finishes with 0-8 record. Seems odd to me to some degree, but I would have to imagine you have to be very mentally strong to compete in this sport especially at a high level, Just a bunch of cases of guys not bein able to handle the mental game for long periods of time?

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Posted by scobac

all good examples, but what about the more extreme, someone like mark Kerr he ran thru everyone he fought early on goin 11-0 and now sits on 5 strait losses. Is it possible that he lost confidence at this point in his career after being as dominant as he was? Someone like tank is a little easier to read, he's never been willing to conform to todays mma standards of cross training. Brad Kohler not a popular fighter probably most known for his one punch KO of steve judson, he starts 11-4 and finishes with 0-8 record. Seems odd to me to some degree, but I would have to imagine you have to be very mentally strong to compete in this sport especially at a high level, Just a bunch of cases of guys not bein able to handle the mental game for long periods of time?

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IMO Kerr (and guys like Belfort as well) were never as good as people made them out to be. Look closely at Kerr's 11-0 record. It does not contain one top 10 HW name on it. And when did he start to lose? When he fought guys who were top 10 HWs like Igor, Heath and Fujita. I know I get flamed wheneverr I argue this, but to me it's very simple. He was a guy who was good, but not good enough to beat the top fighters at HW--and that was who he was the entire time, people just didn't believe it because of his superhero build and the fact that he could smash B-level fighters so impressively. I'm also of the unpopular belief that his personal problems were as much caused by as they were the cause of his losses at the top level.

I think your criteria of a guy who (you think) is great going totally south and then turning around is going to make it tough to find a comparable. But Coleman--arguably the top fighter in the world--then going 1-4--then winning the tournament to determine the top fighter in the world, is pretty close. From a boxing standpoint, I think George Foreman's 2nd title win is pretty outstanding as well.

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Posted by scobac

all good examples, but what about the more extreme, someone like mark Kerr he ran thru everyone he fought early on goin 11-0 and now sits on 5 strait losses. Is it possible that he lost confidence at this point in his career after being as dominant as he was? Someone like tank is a little easier to read, he's never been willing to conform to todays mma standards of cross training. Brad Kohler not a popular fighter probably most known for his one punch KO of steve judson, he starts 11-4 and finishes with 0-8 record. Seems odd to me to some degree, but I would have to imagine you have to be very mentally strong to compete in this sport especially at a high level, Just a bunch of cases of guys not bein able to handle the mental game for long periods of time?

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These are examples of people that originally had something to offer to the sport, but didn't evolve as fast as the sport did...and as a result got lost in the shuffle. You could argue that Kerr's mental game was never able to recover. Kohler is an interesting one. He could beat anybody if they had an off day, but wasn't the greatest fighter by any standards...several of his early wins were against nobody's.

all makes sense, riddle me this, who do you think would be the next big example of lack of a better term "overrated" (once revealed they cant contend with game opponents) Im gonna say Rothwell, I think the lack of top comp. in the IFL will reveal severals falling under the "overrated" tag when or if they go to bigger orgs.

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Posted by scobac

all makes sense, riddle me this, who do you think would be the next big example of lack of a better term "overrated" (once revealed they cant contend with game opponents) Im gonna say Rothwell, I think the lack of top comp. in the IFL will reveal severals falling under the "overrated" tag when or if they go to bigger orgs.

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im going to give rothwell the benefitof the doubt and say that hes a solid b-level fighter, and there is no shame in that. i can see GG or Kongo as overrated, one win made them seem to be a lot of peoples "new" favorite fighters, and put them in a lot of top tens(they did both beat a great fighter and do deserve credit though). houston alexander and anthony johnson also come to mind, although alexander is starting to make a believer out of me, because they both had such quick KO's(houston twice) that without really knowing how good they are they are getting some attention.

I think Brandon Vera might find out "the truth" about being a 220 pound HW when he fights Sylvia and other guys in the top 10. I hope not, because I like him, but I think it's going to happen.

I'll also be interested to see how well Sanchez bounces back from his loss. Could it be that the top of the 170 pound division is filled with too many big wrestlers for hiim to compete there? Again, I hope not but if he loses to Fitch I don't see him beating Hughes or GSP either.

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Posted by fullerene

I think Brandon Vera might find out "the truth" about being a 220 pound HW when he fights Sylvia and other guys in the top 10. I hope not, because I like him, but I think it's going to happen.




I like vera myself but i would hate to be anyone standing in front the maine-iac after the school yard beating he received from Randy, especially someone like vera who should be fighting as a LHW. I think he would do fine in that division and I think this will be the beating that sends him there.