Mirko Crocop taking on Lebanner at DREAM.4

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kastro_316
4/25/08 12:46:23PM


Ummm, crocop should take this one! Has lebanner fought anyone good lately?

http://dreamfighters.com/site/index.php?action=detail&id=1209140223
hathcock32
4/25/08 1:25:42PM
Instead of taking of Lebanner Cro-Cop should be taking on the likes of: Vera,Lesnar,Mir, Velazquez, Gonzaga II,Barnett, Kongo II, Kharitoniv,Antonio Silva, Rothwell, Arlovski, even Roy Nelson. Why Cro-Cop isnt fighting top 20 MMA heavyweight talent is beyond me. If you are going to be an MMA fighter be and MMA fighter, if you want to kickbox do that then. However fighting Kickboxers in MMA isn't going to move you up the heavyweight ranks. And i think when someone ranked in the top ten fights guys like Mizuno and Lebanner(4-4 in his last 8 kickboxing fights) its a joke. Lebanner is an old kickboxer, not a MMA fighter.
kastro_316
4/25/08 1:27:29PM

Posted by hathcock32

Instead of taking of Lebanner Cro-Cop should be taking on the likes of: Vera,Lesnar,Mir, Velazquez, Gonzaga II,Barnett, Kongo II, Kharitoniv,Antonio Silva, Rothwell, Arlovski, even Roy Nelson. Why Cro-Cop isnt fighting top 20 MMA heavyweight talent is beyond me. If you are going to be an mma fighter be and mma fighter, if you want to kickbox do that then. However fighting Kickboxers in MMA isn't going to move you up the heavyweight ranks. And i think when someone ranked in the top ten fights guys like Mizuno and Lebanner(4-4 in his last 8 kickboxing fights) its a joke. Lebanner is an old kickboxer.



Maybe because half those people you listed ARE IN THE UFC! He still has 2 more fights left with DREAM
hathcock32
4/25/08 1:29:46PM
Ummm yea i realize that. I said should be.
SmileR
4/25/08 1:47:12PM
I think this is a great fight! If Mirko wins it'll be a major boost to his confidence and could be the return of the old CroCop!
Once he has confidence back in his striking he should be able to come back to the UFC and go on a run to remind everyone why he was the most feared striker in the world.
I personally think CroCop in Dream is a great idea though, an we also get to see him return to the UFC so at least he's going to be active for the next two years which isn't a bad thing.
Jackelope
4/25/08 2:14:37PM

Posted by hathcock32

Instead of taking of Lebanner Cro-Cop should be taking on the likes of: Vera,Lesnar,Mir, Velazquez, Gonzaga II,Barnett, Kongo II, Kharitoniv,Antonio Silva, Rothwell, Arlovski, even Roy Nelson. Why Cro-Cop isnt fighting top 20 MMA heavyweight talent is beyond me. If you are going to be an MMA fighter be and MMA fighter, if you want to kickbox do that then. However fighting Kickboxers in MMA isn't going to move you up the heavyweight ranks. And i think when someone ranked in the top ten fights guys like Mizuno and Lebanner(4-4 in his last 8 kickboxing fights) its a joke. Lebanner is an old kickboxer, not a MMA fighter.



Heh, LeBanner may be 4-4 (didn't look up the stats) but I don't care if he's 2-6. LeBanner is a fricken beast no matter which way you cut the cards. I'd be deeply impressed if Mirko takes this in exciting fashion.

As for it not being MMA I can see your point, but then again Mark Hunt almost landed a kimura on Fedor!
Aaronno9
4/25/08 2:30:25PM
I think lebanner takes this one. Id love to see mirko beat him again, but i cant see it happening unfortunately. I mean, all cro cop has in terms of being an mma fighter apart from his kickboxing is his sprawl, and i dont see that being used at all in this fight.

I agree with what people are saying though, this fight aint gona help him any in terms of a rematch with gg, or a fight with any of the other grapplers in the ufcs hw division should he return.
hathcock32
4/25/08 2:36:43PM
Yea i think it will me an exciting fight that i will watch definately. I just want to see Cro Cop fight the best. I realize that Lebanner is a legend in K-1. But as far as MMA goes Lebanner is not a top 20 guy. I just wish we would see him vs a proven MMA fighter.
kaskd
4/25/08 3:42:07PM
i don't know what crocop is thinking with this fight. His biggest problems are against real kick boxers. He's kind of like Chuck. Any non striker he will rip apart because of his great hands (and feet in this case) and his ability to avoid the takedown. But when a great MMA striker comes along he can't hang with him and has no ground game to even attempt to use (i kno chuck can wrestle, just never uses it). I didn't look up Lebanner's record either but if it's as you all say he might not be acclimated to mma yet and will lose to crocop.
jiujitsufreak74
4/25/08 3:47:07PM
JLB is one of the best K-1 fighters of all time. this is a dangerous match up for CC but it will be a good indication of where is striking is at. i always get nervous when picking CC against a K-1 fighter...just something uneasy about it.
fedorwins1
4/25/08 3:57:17PM
I'm picking Lebanner. Lebanner is not a BJJ master, but he's better than Cro Cop on the ground IMO. Just look up some videos of Lebanner grappling on youtube. He's not lost on the ground he known more than CC IMO. Lebanner could outstrike him or he could try to take it to the ground and control CC (I just don't know if he would be able to take CC down, but hey Kongo easily took CC down).
Pookie
4/25/08 4:31:43PM
Lebanner is the greatest k-1 fighter ever.

Only problem is he injures alot.
juanez13
4/25/08 4:41:02PM

Posted by Pookie

Lebanner is the greatest k-1 fighter ever.

Only problem is he injures alot.



he is a k1 legend, but i rank him far from best ever, having a record of 2-3 against hoost, and 1-3 against Aerts. and never winning a GP, i'd rank Hoost, Aerts, Hug, and schilt over him. He has the skills, but every year there seems to be someone a bit more determined than him.

I'm taking lebanner on this one, i think his agressiveness will be the trick here, even when Mirko was on his prime i'd probably take lebanner over him(even though mirko beat him before, but i think a more expirienced lebanner would have beat him), but even more lately, especially since he hasnt countered at all in his fights, and thats exactly what he would need to do to beat lebanner, counter.
Mastodon2
4/25/08 6:20:51PM

Posted by hathcock32

Instead of taking of Lebanner Cro-Cop should be taking on the likes of: Vera,Lesnar,Mir, Velazquez, Gonzaga II,Barnett, Kongo II, Kharitoniv,Antonio Silva, Rothwell, Arlovski, even Roy Nelson. Why Cro-Cop isnt fighting top 20 MMA heavyweight talent is beyond me. If you are going to be an MMA fighter be and MMA fighter, if you want to kickbox do that then. However fighting Kickboxers in MMA isn't going to move you up the heavyweight ranks. And i think when someone ranked in the top ten fights guys like Mizuno and Lebanner(4-4 in his last 8 kickboxing fights) its a joke. Lebanner is an old kickboxer, not a MMA fighter.



If you knew anything about Le Banner instead of just stat checking on his wikipedia page, you'd know he has been battling some pretty major leg injuries for a while now, he had about 2 years of relatively little activity, and a poor loss to the useless Junichi Sawayashiki, which shows how bad his injuries were affecting him. He says he is pretty well healed up, though he did have to pull out of the last Gp after Schilt bust his knee in. Had you watched the last GP, you'd have seen Le Banner dominate Choi for 3 rounds like I've seen no one else do, then push Schilt around the ring until the low kick counter that damaged his knee. Le Banner is far more dangerous than a 4-4 in his last 8 fights belies.

Cro Cop on the other hand hasn't looked amazing in his last fights. Cro Cop is gonna need to really work his striking if he wants to hang with Le Banner. His only chance imo is to get a few lucky shots on Le Banner to start getting an upper hand, because as we know, Le Banner has never been one to let defense get in the way of a good offence. Other than that, Le Banner will maul him.

As for best in K-1, Le Banner isn't that, though he is very near the top. I'd rank him 4th best of all time. Aerts is my pick for best of all time, then Hoost (has more GP wins than Aerts but his last one was a gift really), then Schilt. Sure Bonjasky and Hug have GP wins, well, Bonjasky has two as a matter of fact, but I'd still see Jerome demolishing either of them. In fact, when Jerome did fight Remy, he destroyed him but lost a crazy decision (far worse than Bisping / Hamil) but it was so bad it was overturned by the K-1 managment to a win in JLB's favour. Jerome is imo the fourth best, but will always be my favourite, not only in K-1, but in all combat sports, and all sports for that matter. He is my hero because he completely embodies true fighting spirit, he never fought with anything less than his best effort, never looked for decisions, he was always going for the kill. He is also a true gentleman!
loller90278
4/25/08 6:31:34PM

After this fight, Mirko has one more fight left with DREAM, possibly against Fedor at NYE, then as he stated "Back to the UFC"


if he wins this he should challenge fedor again!

jiujitsufreak74
4/25/08 6:40:52PM

Posted by Mastodon2

As for best in K-1, Le Banner isn't that, though he is very near the top. I'd rank him 4th best of all time. Aerts is my pick for best of all time, then Hoost (has more GP wins than Aerts but his last one was a gift really), then Schilt. Sure Bonjasky and Hug have GP wins, well, Bonjasky has two as a matter of fact, but I'd still see Jerome demolishing either of them. In fact, when Jerome did fight Remy, he destroyed him but lost a crazy decision (far worse than Bisping / Hamil) but it was so bad it was overturned by the K-1 managment to a win in JLB's favour. Jerome is imo the fourth best, but will always be my favourite, not only in K-1, but in all combat sports, and all sports for that matter. He is my hero because he completely embodies true fighting spirit, he never fought with anything less than his best effort, never looked for decisions, he was always going for the kill. He is also a true gentleman!



i honestly think within the next 5 years Schilt will establish himself as the best K-1 artist of all time. Aerts and Hoost right now, for me, are 1 and 2 although it is hard for me to pick one over the other, especially since i believe Aerts accomplished more in his career but at the same time Hoost is 3-2 against Aerts. Schilt has won 3 consecutive GPs in a row, if he continues this pace and wins 1 or 2 more in a row, then imo he is the best all time.
Mastodon2
4/25/08 6:50:27PM
Unfortunately I'd have to agree. If one day Schilt mysteriously shrank by a foot and lost a few pounds he'd get demolished. His skills are so far behind everyone elses, but his size lets him dominate with a handful of techniques. It's a real shame, he is spoiling K-1.
cmill21
4/25/08 7:28:20PM
Good I'm glad. Now people can quit calling him a pussy and all of that. You don't take on a guy like JLB if your afraid.
Gipper
4/25/08 9:01:41PM
this will be damn good
slick781
4/25/08 10:25:56PM
Didn't CroCop fight (and beat) Lebanner in one of his first professional fights? I think it was back in the day when he went by Mirko Tigar. I remember them both looking like children in the fight, should be fun to compare the two fights if this one actually happens.
cmill21
4/26/08 2:58:16AM

Posted by slick781

Didn't CroCop fight (and beat) Lebanner in one of his first professional fights? I think it was back in the day when he went by Mirko Tigar. I remember them both looking like children in the fight, should be fun to compare the two fights if this one actually happens.



Yes they did. At the time they were both much different fighters, Cro Cop used alot of TKD which he doesn't use. Cro Cop has been on 100% stand up training for month and months now and his boxing was already rediculously improved in his last fight with Mizuno(yes you could tell). IMHO this fight will be decided by whoever lands the first clean shot.
chubbud22
4/26/08 3:14:15AM
I cant wait for this fight. Hopefully we will see some old Cro-Cop
Riggeee
4/26/08 12:57:36PM
le banner has fought a lot of good ppl lately in K-1 that is......
ah im soo stoked for this fight!!!
may not be the best MMA fighter or the top 10 heavyweights
but le banner is no can in the stand up and i dont think cro cop will be taken him down so it should be a tough fight for mirko with him coming out on top!!
Rush
4/26/08 1:54:36PM
**Caveat, I know next to nothing about K1 so my opinion is based on my observations of CroCop and stats of K1 fighters (on paper)

Personally I don't see much difference in taking this fight compared to the Schillt fight. I see it as a potentially dangerous fight for Mirko and I don't see much gain from winning. What I mean by this is that I don't see many MMA fans using a win over JLB as a reason why Cro Cop should stuck back into title contention

I'm sure Cro Cop has his reasons though.
ICSlegend
4/26/08 3:15:34PM

Posted by fedorwins1

I'm picking Lebanner. Lebanner is not a BJJ master, but he's better than Cro Cop on the ground IMO. Just look up some videos of Lebanner grappling on youtube. He's not lost on the ground he known more than CC IMO. Lebanner could outstrike him or he could try to take it to the ground and control CC (I just don't know if he would be able to take CC down, but hey Kongo easily took CC down).



What are you smoking? Le Banner hasn't demonstrated anything to even suggest as good a ground game as CC. CC neutralized Fedor's gnp and Barnett couldn't sub him. CC is just about as good as you can get defensive-ground game wise. The best sub guy in mma is the only one to ever have subbed CC. Meanwhile some pro wrestler was subbing Le Banner.

And "maybe" Le Banner could oustrike him, depending on how far CC has regressed since his K1 days (imo quite a bit). I don't see any takedowns happening in this fight unless Mirko pulls a 180 and goes for an armbar or triangle or something.

This is the first CC fight I'm nervous about. If he doesn't show up with some fire he's going to get beat. I'm very dissapointed CC isn't fighting Sergei. Does anyone know why?
cmill21
4/26/08 3:36:23PM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fedorwins1

I'm picking Lebanner. Lebanner is not a BJJ master, but he's better than Cro Cop on the ground IMO. Just look up some videos of Lebanner grappling on youtube. He's not lost on the ground he known more than CC IMO. Lebanner could outstrike him or he could try to take it to the ground and control CC (I just don't know if he would be able to take CC down, but hey Kongo easily took CC down).



What are you smoking? Le Banner hasn't demonstrated anything to even suggest as good a ground game as CC. CC neutralized Fedor's gnp and Barnett couldn't sub him. CC is just about as good as you can get defensive-ground game wise. The best sub guy in mma is the only one to ever have subbed CC. Meanwhile some pro wrestler was subbing Le Banner.

And "maybe" Le Banner could oustrike him, depending on how far CC has regressed since his K1 days (imo quite a bit). I don't see any takedowns happening in this fight unless Mirko pulls a 180 and goes for an armbar or triangle or something.

This is the first CC fight I'm nervous about. If he doesn't show up with some fire he's going to get beat. I'm very dissapointed CC isn't fighting Sergei. Does anyone know why?



Not fighting Sergei because he thinks he can win this fight, and to him it means more. From what I'm hearing if all goes well he wants to beat LeBanner, fight Sergei for the Dream belt and if Cro Cop gets through this gauntlet he will have earned a rematch against Fedor. He's reigniting the fire by going against guys he knows to be great fighters, he had no idea who GG and Kongo were and didn't really care to fight them. IMHO this seems like a great idea.
Rush
4/26/08 3:42:20PM

Posted by cmill21

Not fighting Sergei because he thinks he can win this fight, and to him it means more. From what I'm hearing if all goes well he wants to beat LeBanner, fight Sergei for the Dream belt and if Cro Cop gets through this gauntlet he will have earned a rematch against Fedor. He's reigniting the fire by going against guys he knows to be great fighters, he had no idea who GG and Kongo were and didn't really care to fight them. IMHO this seems like a great idea.




If this happens then it's a great plan.
fedorwins1
4/26/08 4:02:01PM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fedorwins1

I'm picking Lebanner. Lebanner is not a BJJ master, but he's better than Cro Cop on the ground IMO. Just look up some videos of Lebanner grappling on youtube. He's not lost on the ground he known more than CC IMO. Lebanner could outstrike him or he could try to take it to the ground and control CC (I just don't know if he would be able to take CC down, but hey Kongo easily took CC down).



What are you smoking? Le Banner hasn't demonstrated anything to even suggest as good a ground game as CC. CC neutralized Fedor's gnp and Barnett couldn't sub him. CC is just about as good as you can get defensive-ground game wise. The best sub guy in mma is the only one to ever have subbed CC. Meanwhile some pro wrestler was subbing Le Banner.

And "maybe" Le Banner could oustrike him, depending on how far CC has regressed since his K1 days (imo quite a bit). I don't see any takedowns happening in this fight unless Mirko pulls a 180 and goes for an armbar or triangle or something.

This is the first CC fight I'm nervous about. If he doesn't show up with some fire he's going to get beat. I'm very dissapointed CC isn't fighting Sergei. Does anyone know why?



Hey this is MMA anything can happen. I think Lebanner will try and stand with CC, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lebanner tried an occasional takedown. If it goes to the ground I think Lebanner would get to position.
ICSlegend
4/27/08 4:11:46PM

Posted by fedorwins1


Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by fedorwins1

I'm picking Lebanner. Lebanner is not a BJJ master, but he's better than Cro Cop on the ground IMO. Just look up some videos of Lebanner grappling on youtube. He's not lost on the ground he known more than CC IMO. Lebanner could outstrike him or he could try to take it to the ground and control CC (I just don't know if he would be able to take CC down, but hey Kongo easily took CC down).



What are you smoking? Le Banner hasn't demonstrated anything to even suggest as good a ground game as CC. CC neutralized Fedor's gnp and Barnett couldn't sub him. CC is just about as good as you can get defensive-ground game wise. The best sub guy in mma is the only one to ever have subbed CC. Meanwhile some pro wrestler was subbing Le Banner.

And "maybe" Le Banner could oustrike him, depending on how far CC has regressed since his K1 days (imo quite a bit). I don't see any takedowns happening in this fight unless Mirko pulls a 180 and goes for an armbar or triangle or something.

This is the first CC fight I'm nervous about. If he doesn't show up with some fire he's going to get beat. I'm very dissapointed CC isn't fighting Sergei. Does anyone know why?



Hey this is MMA anything can happen. I think Lebanner will try and stand with CC, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lebanner tried an occasional takedown. If it goes to the ground I think Lebanner would get to position.



Well, just because something has a .00001% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should count on it (not talking about CC-Le Banner, just in general).

Sure, maybe Le Banner might try for a takedown, but even if JLB got "position", what would he do with it? Are you suggesting his subs are as good as Nog's? Barnett's? Or gnp as good as Fedor's? JLB has nothing for CC on the ground.

And cmill, that looks like a decent road for CC, with Sergei and Fedor on the horizon, but am I crazy or is JLB a tougher fight than those guys?
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