Mir vs Lesnar Post Fight discusion

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KeNn
2/3/08 12:40:24AM
lol...See Brock should have had to build his way up just like any fighter. His in-experience vs a experienced fighter lost him the fight.

He looks like a fat kid going after a piece of cake, he went NUTS and was very un-postured. I wasn't worried because you could tell most of his ground and pound wasn't connecting very well.

I was surprised with his stand up....But not really lol, all in all I didn't mind the fight, but it prooves that Lesnar wasn't ready, and it ends all the hype for a while.

8 out of 10
TimW001
2/3/08 1:53:30AM
I have trouble taking your posts seriously with an av like that, honestly. Not trying to be an ass, just honest.

But Yeah! I thought for Lesnars second fiight, he looked really great. He got caught in a simple leg lock that if he trained more JJ he wouldn't have got caught. But hey, that's the [rice you pay. I hope he takes some time to travel around at different camps to get some more diversed training. I was really impressed by Lesnars pure strength. And for a guy that big, I thought he was quick too. And I'm glad I changed my prediction at the last minute, I got the full 22 points.
jomatty
2/3/08 8:29:08AM
i was so excited to see mir get the win...but lesnar showed that he belonged imo and that he can compete with just about anyone. if you were not concerned then you must have been watching a different fight because it easily could have gone the other way, especially if it doesnt get stood up due to the punch to the back of the head, which would have been fine except that it happens in every fight and nothing ever happens so it makes me wonder...

anyhow, great fight for mir, one i didnt think he would get. i think brock showed that he is a beast though and if he doesnt lose interest he could be an absolute powerhouse.
Jackelope
2/3/08 9:17:07AM
I always knew Brock wasn't to be taken lightly, but as my camp members will tell you I refused to buy into the hype. There's no way a guy with that kind of inexperience can go up against a jiu jitsu guy with Mir's skill and not get caught. Brock did the right thing- tried to daze him and take away his heart early, but you make one mistake against an expert BJJ guy and he will lock up something. I thought it'd end in toe hold or ankle lock, but I should have included a knee bar because in Brock's training you can just see how he always leaves that leg out there.

He'll be around for a bit, but no surprise here.
xchickox
2/3/08 9:24:51AM
hahah yeah he almost had mir though, shows he has potential, good takedowns, good on his feet, good striking on the ground, he just needs to improve his submission game just inexperienced and sloppy, he has potential to destroy a lot of heavyweights
juanez13
2/3/08 9:34:37AM
although he lost because of inexpierence, i was very impressed with him, he packs some serious GnP, and just needs to learn, in a while he will be a force
KeNn
2/3/08 9:40:48AM

I have trouble taking your posts seriously with an av like that, honestly. Not trying to be an ass, just honest.


dude shut up lol

Lesnar still lossed, and never won via ground and pound. Not even close, maybe if was more controlled and never went ape shit. Mir deffinately looked composed on the ground, and I knew that sub was coming, I learned that shit in my first couple months of jiutjisu, easy defense is not to walk into buddies guard....

Brock Lesnar= Big for nothing, has no brains to go with his fighting style.
and technique+strategy =50% of any fight.

Brock showed me no class in fighting style so I don't know about him....Mir isn't the best on his feet lol.
atlas777
2/3/08 9:42:50AM
As much as i wanted Lesnar to win it was exciting to see mir get a good win but for Lesnars second fight and against a fighter such as Mir imo he did great his wrestling was pretty amazing and his GnP was solid he just needs to work on his JJ i am very much looking forward to seeing Lesnar fight again and i wouldnt mind if it was Tim Sylvia but that might make people angry giving him another high profile fight coming off a loss but i think it would be a good fight.
babytater03
2/3/08 9:50:26AM
i thought about them giving him Big Tim, they're very similar in what they would go for. HOWEVER, Dana and the Brothers have put a ton of money into Brock and he HAS to get a W in his next fight. I'm thinking they'll give him someone like Sanchez. A guy who'll come out slugging, not overly dominant in JJ, and someone who is still top 15 in the division. I thought at first a GG or Big Tim would be forseen, however i just think Zuffa has too much invested to have another big name (ie Cro Cop) fall to 0-2.

just my $.02.
rabbit915
2/3/08 11:00:24AM
Zuffa is in a tough position with his next fight because Lesnar needs a win or he will be declared illegitimate by fans. However, because his contract is for so much, he basically needs to be on the main card or you have wasted 200,000 dollars on an undercard fight. I dont think however that a guy with a 1-1 record and some can really belongs on the main card. Im not quite sure what Zuffa is going to do about this one.
LayinFrame
2/3/08 11:18:55AM
lesnar will be a force to be reckond with. ONce he get comfortable with his ground game, and actually learns some submission defense, he will be an outstanding heavyweight even with his little chicken legs. GO MIR!
Rush
2/3/08 11:19:17AM
My thoughts on the fight.

Other than getting caught with the sub, which I think was a mistake based on inexperience, Brock was more or less owning Mir.

The stoppage for the hit to the head was bullshit. Mir turned into the hit and thus I think it was unintentional. Not only that, how come in every other fight, a fighter can be mounted from behind and take at least three shots to the back of the head before being issued a WARNING. The stoppage and the point deduction was bullshit

Props to Mir for the sub. It was very nice to see, but I do not see Mir becoming a top fighter in the division.

Lesnar will be back to fight again.
ButterBalls
2/3/08 11:28:13AM

Posted by Rush

My thoughts on the fight.

Other than getting caught with the sub, which I think was a mistake based on inexperience, Brock was more or less owning Mir.

The stoppage for the hit to the head was bullshit. Mir turned into the hit and thus I think it was unintentional. Not only that, how come in every other fight, a fighter can be mounted from behind and take at least three shots to the back of the head before being issued a WARNING. The stoppage and the point deduction was bullshit

Props to Mir for the sub. It was very nice to see, but I do not see Mir becoming a top fighter in the division.

Lesnar will be back to fight again.



I agree on a couple points.

1. Mir's face looked like mush after 1 minute with Brock. He was being completely dominated in every way, and was unable to do anything whatsoever to mount an attack. I don't even think he threw a punch.

2. The stoppage for the strike to the back of the head was bullshit and it lost Lesnar the fight. If he would have been given 10-15 more seconds to strike in the position he was in, Mir would have been dead. This may sound stupid, but the only excuse I can think of for why it was stopped so early is simply because Brock is so damn huge, and the ref was actually worried that he was going to hurt/kill Mir.

3. I can't think of another heavyweight in the UFC that was much bigger than Mir (not counting Sylvia). Mir came in at 255 lbs, and it said Lesnar was 265. Anyone who saw the fight think Brock was only 10lbs heavier?


Brock is going to rip the HW division apart eventually, and I can't really name a person off the top of my head that I think has a legitimate chance to stop him except for your obvious Nog/Randy/Crocop/Fedor choices.
JWils
2/3/08 11:53:17AM
Very entertaining, 2 minute fight.

Lesnar impressed me even in defeat. The guy's strength and athleticism are amazing. Once he gets some technique to go along with his physical tools, he will be a force.

Now, with that said, I'm happy for Mir. He showed great composure under fire. Lesnar was all over him and still capitalized on his opening and earned the win.

Hopefully, the UFC will find a few less experienced fighters to put in there with Lesnar and allow him time to grow as a fighter and gain some valuable experience before they put him in a main event type of fight again.
dstlvb
2/3/08 11:56:22AM
Do you maybe throw Lesnar against a guy like Antoni Hardonk next. Top notch stand up guy with some ground game. Coming off a win but lost to Mir. Hes taller than Lesnar. Two big guys going at it.
mrsmiley
2/3/08 1:07:52PM

Posted by Rush

My thoughts on the fight.

Other than getting caught with the sub, which I think was a mistake based on inexperience, Brock was more or less owning Mir.

The stoppage for the hit to the head was bullshit. Mir turned into the hit and thus I think it was unintentional. Not only that, how come in every other fight, a fighter can be mounted from behind and take at least three shots to the back of the head before being issued a WARNING. The stoppage and the point deduction was bullshit

Props to Mir for the sub. It was very nice to see, but I do not see Mir becoming a top fighter in the division.

Lesnar will be back to fight again.



You said it best
kevietre
2/3/08 1:35:29PM
Im a Mir Fan but he didn't look so good. Lesnar is so strong that even those rabbit punches to the back of the head affected Mir a lot. On paper it looks good that he submitted him in 2 mins but Brock rocked him in the standup department.
Jackelope
2/3/08 1:37:55PM
The stoppage definitely came as a surprise to me. Even though I can see why he would jump in like that considering Lesnar's size and the potential to do some real damage after hitting someone in the head like that.

As for it "saving" Lesnar I disagree. As I mentioned in another thread he regained the exact same position after his second takedown, then transitioned to north south, then back to side control on the other side. Obviously he couldn't finish it there even given several opportunities, so I don't see what makes people think he was going to the first time. Even if he had, there would have been an illegal blow to the head involved and the victory would have been tainted.

He came out and did the right thing- got the takedown early, dished out punishment that his size and strength allowed, and tried to finish it quick. It was the typical strategy one could expect from a man like Lesnar. Mir won by capitalizing on opportunity (as JJ experts are very well known to do) and putting himself in positions on the ground to weather the opponent's storm and pull out a submission victory. It's classic MMA (even going back to the early days of UFC 1) and it's why BJJ is and has been so successful in the octagon. Props to Lesnar for putting it all on the line, but the fact is he got beat.
SmileR
2/3/08 1:45:55PM

Posted by ButterBalls


Posted by Rush

My thoughts on the fight.

Other than getting caught with the sub, which I think was a mistake based on inexperience, Brock was more or less owning Mir.

The stoppage for the hit to the head was bullshit. Mir turned into the hit and thus I think it was unintentional. Not only that, how come in every other fight, a fighter can be mounted from behind and take at least three shots to the back of the head before being issued a WARNING. The stoppage and the point deduction was bullshit

Props to Mir for the sub. It was very nice to see, but I do not see Mir becoming a top fighter in the division.

Lesnar will be back to fight again.



I agree on a couple points.

1. Mir's face looked like mush after 1 minute with Brock. He was being completely dominated in every way, and was unable to do anything whatsoever to mount an attack. I don't even think he threw a punch.

2. The stoppage for the strike to the back of the head was bullshit and it lost Lesnar the fight. If he would have been given 10-15 more seconds to strike in the position he was in, Mir would have been dead. This may sound stupid, but the only excuse I can think of for why it was stopped so early is simply because Brock is so damn huge, and the ref was actually worried that he was going to hurt/kill Mir.

3. I can't think of another heavyweight in the UFC that was much bigger than Mir (not counting Sylvia). Mir came in at 255 lbs, and it said Lesnar was 265. Anyone who saw the fight think Brock was only 10lbs heavier?


Brock is going to rip the HW division apart eventually, and I can't really name a person off the top of my head that I think has a legitimate chance to stop him except for your obvious Nog/Randy/Crocop/Fedor choices.




Are you guys serious about the stoppage?! You could clearly hear him being warned just a few seconds before.

I agree with the rest though for a new fighter especially one of his size with a few more fights and a good training camp he could be a asset to the UFC.
He is so quick for a man his size!


Mastodon2
2/3/08 1:51:06PM
Aside from the obvious striking and ground defence, one thing I believe Lesnar needs to learn is control. He looks very overexcited as he fights, and it makes him reckless. Last night it ended up with him getting subbed, but if he isnt fighting someone who could sub him, provided they weather the initial storm, he'd probably gas hard and become an easy target.
Pitbull09
2/3/08 1:55:34PM
It saved the sport some shame imo. Brock knows now this is a sport he is going to have to dedicated years of training to before he comes close to the title.

It kind of reminded me of the Condit/Larson fight in WEC. Larson went crazy and threw Condit to the ground and was doing unpostered GnP which led to him being submitted. Brock needs to learn to figth smart and not get overly aggressive and compremise himself like most people on here knew he would
loonytnt
2/3/08 3:04:19PM
brock will be the champ in 2years imo, this guy looked great for his 2nd fight!!! only 2 fights and imo that fight was over but mir got saved by the ref, i really wanna see brock figth some more
stock
2/3/08 4:22:56PM

Posted by loonytnt

brock will be the champ in 2years imo, this guy looked great for his 2nd fight!!! only 2 fights and imo that fight was over but mir got saved by the ref, i really wanna see brock figth some more



All-in-all, I thought Lesnar looked absolutely outstanding.
He got the take down quicker than I could have taken down my 5 year old niece. He grounded him with a hard punch on their feet, and he absolutely malled him on the ground and just ripped his way thru armbar attempts. If it wasn't for the standup, Lesnar puts him away.
Not saying Mir's win was unjustified... it was. Just too bad it happened the way it did. Mir was getting mauled with a flurry of shots and as he turned/ducked his head, he ate some rabbit punches. They were what they were, but was just a momentum killer for Lesnar who thought he had won the fight when the ref stopped it, just to be told it was a point deduction.

Props to both fighters! I would hate to be the guy who draws Lesnar next, as you can bet it is going to be someone below Mir's level.
KeNn
2/3/08 6:41:19PM
lol It's not soon enough to say Brock looked amazing, You seen 1-2minutes of his stand up.... I personally can't say I was impressed with brock at all.

ALTHOUGH His GnP I will admit looks pretty sharp.

Brock might or might not win his next fight, but I don't think he will ever be a champ in the UFC. For right now I have no evidence to back this up, it's just my opinion. I've only seen two of his fights.

ALSO that was good stoppage on the refs part. deffinately wasn't going to stop hitting him in the back of the head, I'm pretty sure I saw him get warned and continues hitting him.

I liked the fight, and was shocked the Brock came out swinging, but I really would like to see him go up against a slugger just to see where he's at.
mrsmiley
2/3/08 6:50:40PM
I just hate thinking about it when in comparision to the CC/Kongo fight.
CC got stuck in the balls how many times before Cheick was even given a warning?

Then Lesnar gets a point deduction after Mir turns?

As for Brocks performance,for only being his second fight,and fighting the former heavy-weight champion,he looked damn good.
xchickox
2/3/08 6:59:45PM
my biggest problem with the stoppage for the strike is in the first fight of the night we saw mazzagati warm tibau twice for striking to the back of the head without stopping the fight or taking a point awat
Svartorm
2/4/08 2:20:37AM
I thought it was a good first showing for Lesnar, and I also disagree with the point deduction and stand-up. I didn't hear the warning the above have mentioned, so I might be mistaken though.

Overall, I think Lesnars problem was definitely the overzealous attack, although I think that was more nerves than anything. He looked really nervous walking out and I don't think the boos helped him too much. Hopefully he got the jitters out and gets a good opponent for next time.

If I had to guess, they'll probably bring someone in for him to fight who looks dangerous, but who won't present a problem for Lesnar. My guess would be Soa Paleli, as he looks mean, is obviously a tough guy, but will probably get taken down and destroyed in short order.
mrliquid
2/4/08 9:57:52AM
I think mir is awsome has always been one of my favs definately one of the best hw bjj artist so I was very happy he won but I gained alot of respect for brock he is a big dangerous heavyweight frank was busted up and cut before the first round even ended and he took mir down and was landing some heavy shots I think he would do great against a guy who likes to throw but definately never saw him winning against mir not enough experience.
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